2/6 Rosie 301, vomiting

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robinshideler

Member Since 2013
Hi Mel,
I'm very worried. Rosie's vomiting woke me up at 730am, this morning. I was still very drugged from my sleeping pill. I jumped up, tested her glucose level it was very high and I immediately gave her 2.5 units. As soon as I did it I though OH CRAP "what am I doing?" Her shot wasn't due until 10am.

Now I'm so worried about what did I do? What will this do to her?
Why is she on such a roller coaster? Will this send her into another pancreatitis type episode?

If she keeps vomiting I'm going to give her some pepcid a/c (famitodine).
Please let me know what you think.

Thnaks

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... sbHc#gid=0
 
First we don't know she has pancreatitis for sure since she hasn't been tested for it.

Second. The only correlation between pancreatitis and her numbers is IF she has it ....the pancreatitis is what causes the high numbers because its painful and pain raises numbers. High numbers don't cause pancreatitis they are a result of the pain.

Third an early shot is going to act like a dose increase so now that it is done all you can do is watch her numbers and if she starts dropping too low treat like any other hypo by feeding her back up.

Going forward if she was mine I would schedule her for a vet appointment and ask that she be tested for pancreatitis. If the test is positive then she's going to need pain meds, anti-nausea meds, and sub-q fluids. If the test is negative then you'll know that's not the issue and can relax there.

I've also noticed a couple of times you've said she doesn't poo well. Are you giving her anything for contipation? With all my seniors they get Miralax mixed in their food and I add A LOT of water to every meal. They get a ratio of a can of water to a can of food.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Dear Mel,

If she is positive for pancreatits then I will have no choice but to let her go. To an another home or to heaven. Everytime I start to feel confident that I'm doing well by her she gets sick. I just feel so worried all the time. I can't possibly care for her if she needs all that. Do you think this guy in Virginia would really want Rosie with all her issues? Do you know how many other cats he has. Rosie has been alone in a large bedroom for years.

My son is having so many problems right now. He has both chronic physical and mental issues. He's been sick for days. I'm trying so hard to figure out how to help him. He has to be my main concern right now.

She has been on a daily laxative (vet prescribed miralax for years). She goes back and forth from small movements to large ones. The last time I increased her to 2 doses was right before the last "vomiting episode." I increased it right before the last bout of vomitting.


I read an article on "Pancreatits in cats" this morning and the early sign is usually constipation. http://pets.webmd.com/cats/pancreatitis-cats

Thanks I will monitor her numbers more often today.
 
What is the laxative the vet prescribes for her? If its laxtose (sp?) which is what they most commonly prescribe it may not be suitable for a diabetic because it contains molasses.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Okay. I am no expert here, but I have a few months under my belt here so here is my 2 cents worth...

first.. BREATHE! you are doing fine.

Secondly, to be honest, I still dont think you have a handle on how insulin works. It is completely different than any other 'drug you know, which is because it is not a drug, it is a hormone. it does not act immediately, nor do you administer it based on the conditions present in the cat the moment you shoot them, unless that number is very low. You give them insulin based on how they have been reacting to the insulin over the last several days to a week. And then the number you concern yourself with is the number when the insulin has had its peak action, that being the lowest number the cat reaches during the 12 hour cycle. That number is called the nadir. If it is consistantly higher than optimum, you increase the dose by a small amount (a quarter to half a unit). You then HOLD THAT DOSE over at least 3 days, regardless of what numbers you see in the cat, unless they are dangerously low at nadir.

The biggest thing is not to panic at a pre shot high number, and if you are concerned, until you really understand how all this works, I would suggest you post here before you shoot.

Understand that cats will often over react to "new to them" lower numbers at nadir... the liver panics and throws out more glucose, which will make your preshot numbers look as high or even higher than before the dose change. This is called a bounce, and is no reason to panic, or to try to adjust the dose yet again. Watch only the nadir, and dont let the high preshot numbers scare you.

Dont give extra or interim shots.... Lantus must be given as close to 12 hours apart as possible. Remember that the effect of Lantus builds up in the system, or in other words the shots overlap in effectiveness, so if you shoot too soon, you risk giving far too much and having the cat go way to low. Low kills. Occasional highs wont.

As for the vomiting, again, we have to be careful to not over assume the cause. Cats puke. It could easily be a hairball. Her bowel issues can also make her puke. I myself had a bowel issue, and when things were not going well, I was puking. Try to calm down. Any change in food? any chance she ate something she shouldnt?

How is her attitude? is is perky or pathetic? do you really think she is in pain? I know you are overwhelmed, but some puking would not worry me much in the absense of any other indication that she is really in distress.

Please know we have your back, and you will get through this.
 
Dear Linda,
My dear Rosie hasn't been really perky in years. She is obese and sleeps all day most days. She usually seems content though. right now, she is obviously in pain. She is hiding, crawling and pathetic as you say.

As I said in my morning post. I shot because I was under the influence of sleeping drugs and so I panicked. If I had been awake I'd known better.

Her vomiting was clear liquid except for a couple of blades of grass. She obviously vomited before her breakfast but my husband doesn't see vomit. She is an indoor cat so for her to venture outside (doggy door) to eat grass tells me she was very nauseated. She is terrified of the doggy door usually.

I know that cats vomit. Except when Rosie does it usually means something is going on. The last time she vomited 20 times and needed emergent care.
I appreciate all of y'alls support but I have no support to deal with my sick son. He too is going through so much right now and I'm trying so hard to balance. And my arm is in a brace for carpel tunnel, and I sometimes I don't know up from down.
Caring for a cat with all these needs is so taxing on my feeble mind, I just cant handle it anymore. My son needs to be my main focus and he is missing out on that right now.
Thanks
 
I just want to say that I know you all mean well. But you all don't actually seem to read my posts slow enough to really notice what I say and then there is a lot of condescension in your posts. I never said I know a lot about any of this. I actually said the opposite. I also have Lyme disease so advanced that I have memory loss and neurological problems and chronic pain. My son is 13 and has it too. That is what I focus on and remember the most my son's problems and meds.

Rosie has been very stable on my dosing without a board for the past year. Now her condition has changed. She has new issues. I can't manage.

To be honest. I often forget that Rosie exists. I read articles on cats and diabetes. I read articles about how to care and treat it and then I forget it. I don't mean to seem stupid and anxious but I am very stupid and anxious most of the time and defensive too.

I take many meds each day. My sleeping pills can make me forget my mornings. I even forget to take my meds sometimes. I'm very organized outwardly but total chaos is in my mind.


My gut reaction when I see Rosie suffering is that she has suffered enough. And quite frankly so have I.

I put my 18 year old kidney disease cat down in November. I let her suffer for years with the disease because of guilt and selfishness. I waited until one of her legs broke off at the joint and was just dangling before I would euthanize her. I won't do that to Rosie. I waited too long.

Giving Rosie to a stranger seems cruel to me. She would be better off floating off to sleep I think.
 
Robin

Then do it. Make the appointment and send her to the Bridge. End her life and let her next journey begin. Don't ask for my help to rehome her then in the next breath tell me sending her to a stranger is cruel.

I'm just damn glad Maxwell, Autumn, Musette and Casey's original owners didn't feel that entrusting them to my care was cruel. Because my world would be a much less beautiful place without them in it.

I only had Musette for a year before she left for the Bridge because a vet screwed up and I miss her daily. I still cry when I see her pictures. But I never once regretted her being part of my life and when she left this world she did so snuggled in my shirt so I don't she ever regretted her time with me either.

Everyone of my animals are rescues that most would call unadoptable. Maxwell, Autumn and Casey are diabetic..Hazy is deaf, Arabella is epileptic, Tre'Vona has a valve in her heart that sticks..Duvessa and Myrrdin are mentally retarded because they were still born they will never mature past a 6 month old kitten and the list goes on.

I have fibromyalgia I have a hand that was crippled by a brown recluse bite

We all have challenges in life.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Robin

Just about anyone that has been around this board for any length of time will tell you that I have the patience of a saint and that I will literally walk through fire for every cat on this board.

But that I will also call a spade a spade. Yes you upset me. You upset me because I see a needy self centered whiner that needs to be the center of attention. That seems to enjoy yanking everyone's chain with threats of euthanasia ...because lets see this is what you're 4th or 5th time doing so twice on this board and my understanding a couple more on the other board.

No one has been rude or condescending to you here. They have bent over backwards and yet it is you that have been rude and condescending to us.

And it was Venita ( yes the woman that hates you so much) That asked me to personally help you and Rosie. She didn't have too. But Jenn believed in you, Venita believed in you and I believed in you and your ability to juggle it all if given the proper tools.

And I'm so sorry that a beautiful loving soul is going to leave this world because she won't be given a chance to find a heart and home where she can blossom and flourish.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
I did not say one single thing to you that was condescending. Let me be clear.... Anything that seemed a critism of you WAS EXACTLY that. When you post to a board and ask repeatedly what to do when something is not going right, we ASSUME you would want to know where you are going wrong. So I told you.

Your ACTIONS, as reported BY YOU, clearly indicate you either dont know or dont care to know the proper way to treat FD with Lantus. Or possibly you "cant remember", in which case, if your brain is so affected by your issues that you cant remember if you have given a shot, then perhaps you should not be in charge of ANYONE's health care.. not yours, not your son's, and certainly not poor Rosie's.

You have, by your own admission, not cared for that cat properly. Fact. Not opinion. We were ready, willing and most decidedly able to provide you with the information to correct that, but you dont want to hear it. Instead you drag out your disabilities and worries as "reasons". I call bullshit. If you can operate a computer, find this board, and write your long posts, you are ABLE to follow clear and consise information about treating a cat, if you CHOOSE TO>

If Rosie is too much for you, let her go. But let me be clear... I am appalled that you have gone to these lengths with her only to now be selfish and refuse to see if there is someone else who could love her and give her good care. You haven't even tried.

We could all list the reasons why caring for our sick kitties is hard some, most, or every day. Its no picnic for anyone, ever. And many of us have challenges just like you. But we do what we can, and successfully, and if we couldnt, we would ensure someone else did.
 
And let me be clear of the discussions Robin and I have had in pms. I have asked that she contact DCIN about rehoming Rosie since Rosie is part of their financial aid program. I have offered to post on both Health and Community for her about Rosie needing a new home. I have offered to try to find a foster family for Rosie so to take the pressure off while looking for a forever home.

That's all I can possibly do. Debbie Lucian's mom has offered Rosie a home but it would take resources beyond my control to get her from Maryland to North Carolina in the depth of winter. And I'm sure Debbie's huge heart but tiny bank account and apartment would not meet the requirements. Since there is just no way some one with time love and patience could integrate a cat into a new furry family. Although I've done it not once but 16 times.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
That would depend on if Robin is willing to rehome Rosie.

If Debbie is still willing to take Rosie in.

And if we could arrange a ground transport because it is far too cold at the moment to fly her. Two of mine were flown but the airline that was used back then no longer offer the pet cargo service so she would have to travel in cabin with a human escort.

Which is why I suggested contacting DCIN they have the contacts to coordinate those kinds of things as well as being a nonprofit rescue so are likely get better rates. I know at the very least they have all the forms needed to transport across state lines. She would need to get a vet health certificate and be up to date on shots.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: 2/6 Rosie signing off

A big part of Lyme disease is the depression and anxiety. Thanks for your kindness and your understanding and calling me whiny and self centered I can't tell you how much that makes me trust humankind.

You will never understand what my life is really like. You have never walked in my shoes. I have only shared a tiny part of the problems I deal with everyday. I can't relate to or understand those who all think that cats are more important than humans.

I said Rosie needs her own room because Rosie is a very shy scared cat. She has not had to get along with other cats in many years.I live in a tiny house but she got the master bedroom. The other animals all live downstairs.

The person would have to be wealthy because in one month I have paid over $350 just for Rosie's vet bills for her uti and her vomiting. I didn't mean that I wouldn't give my cat to a poor person because I'm a snob. I'm a poor person and I can't keep paying these costs.

Rosie is fine for now but she will meet kitten in heaven soon. She is no longer your concern.
 
Hi Robin! I don't really know you or what all is going on... But from what I've read in this thread is sounds like you've got things pretty rough and I'm sorry for the struggles you face. It does sound like Rosie needs care you can't give her right now - and who can blame you with everything you have to deal with? But surely it's worth giving DCIN and rehoming a chance if the alternative is putting her down? Diabetic Cats In Need has done some wonderful work and has a network of people who open their hearts and homes to troubled kitties. Really, it's very inspiring, the success stories they've had. When the Theo-cat gets his wings (a long time from now, I hope) I intend to adopt a diabetic kitty from DCIN, to pay forward the skills DCIN and this forum and Theo himself have helped me learn.
 
Re: 2/6 Rosie

Dear All,
I don't believe in what you all believe in. I won't keep a cat alive if they are in pain and suffering. I will not send my cat, who is like a child to me, to someone who thinks that way either. That is horrifying to me.
ROSIE IS FINE and when she isn't I will deal with it my way.

So delete my posts and forget about her!
 
It seems that all you really wanted was for us to encourage you to euthanize her. Maybe you didn't want it to be all your decision - that's sad. Maybe there was some need to have us all hurt for Rosie with you. Well, it worked!

You came here - you got us involved - and because of that, I will continue to pray for peace and well-being for you and Rosie.
 
Your right you don't believe as we do. We believe our cats aren't disposable when they become old and sick. We believe that when they require more care than we can give that handing them over to someone with more time and experience where they can get that care is better than sticking a needle in their vein and ending their life.

Not a single one of us would keep a suffering cat alive. But apparently it is you that have not read our posts carefully enough because we've been trying to tell you Rosie doesn't need to be suffering but she needs more care than you can supply with all the other challenges in your life.

Diabetes is treatable..Pancreatitis is treatable. As are a host of other conditions. We might even be able to find her a home where she'd be an only but those are few and far between and isn't going to happen overnight. Because we all got here because we're treating our own cats which means there is at least one other cat if not several in the home.

If she was fine she wouldn't be diabetic, if she is obese you made her that way. When I adopted my Casey he weighed 37lbs, he was a watermelon with feet, he couldn't walk more than a few feet. Today he's still a big guy but he's running through the house chasing toys. He was on 11u bid of Levemir today 1.5u. His owner loved him like a child but realized because of her health she couldn't give him what he needed. She cried when she placed him in my arms. We had never met before but now we exchange pictures and emails. Maxwell former mom developed dementia and went to a nursing home I still write her grand daughter and she reads my emails to her grandmother and shows her his pictures. Autumn's former owner was legally blind. So yeah I get it sometimes health of the human out weighs the health needs of the animal. Had any of those 3 cats remained in their original homes they would have suffered but because they were rehomed they are healthy happy and living and much loved pets

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Mel,

How dare you continue to badmouth me like this. You are no saint you are a mean hurtful nutcase!!

This is my last response I am deleting your url from my computer.
 
Robin,

As Rosie's caregiver, the decision of how to treat and when to treat her is yours and yours alone. We are here to provide support and offer you choices and options. You then have the opportunity to think about those choices and options and decide what is best for you, your family and Rosie. It is not our place to second guess your choices and needs.

We know how heart-wrenching some of those decisions can be. Many of us have made the choice to re-home our cats or surrender them to a shelter. Many of us have made that decision to let our cats go. When the quality of our cats lives has deteriorated beyond the point we can bear, putting them to sleep can be one of the most difficult but loving steps we make.

Please know that there are people on this board who do support you in whatever choices you make.

Quite frankly, I am disappointed and appalled at some of the responses you have received. We all need to remember what one of our primary purposes is on this board. That is to be supportive of the caregiver in whatever fashion we can.

We may not agree with those decisions, but it is our moral and ethical responsibility to allow Rosie's mom to make those decisions.

{{{{{Hugs for Robin and Rosie}}}}}

I invite you to post over on the Feline Health forum, where hopefully you will receive more support then you are receiving here on the "Relaxed Lantus" forum.
 
@Deb

You do not know all the information. There are reasons why Robin was asked to bypass Health. Why I was asked to personally work with her. And why she is getting the reactions she is here. Two very well known and long time members hand picked this forum and are fully aware. I've been in contract with them both.

We've tried our best. Now it is up to DCIN, and Rosie's care giver to decide the next step.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
@Deb

You do not know all the information.
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I'm sure I don't. It's why I hate all the PM's that I'm sure have been going on in the background. Shuts people out of the loop and hides so much that has been going on here I'm sure. It's one of the major reasons private advising via PM is a violation of the terms of agreement for use of this board.

There are reasons why Robin was asked to bypass Health.
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Since DCIN is involved, I do understand some of the reasons why Robin was asked to bypass Health. Too many voices there to overwhelm her with information for one reason.

Why I was asked to personally work with her.
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You are normally so level headed and supportive I can see why you were asked to help her. But, encouraging this woman to kill her cat was stepping over the line in my opinion.

We've tried our best.
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Is this really the best we can do? Publicly shaming her and humiliating her on this forum has caused her to leave the board forever and resulted in jeopardizing her cats well being.

Now it is up to DCIN, and Rosie's care giver to decide the next step.
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No it's not. It's up to Robin and Robin alone to decide the next step.

I am so disgusted and sickened by the mishandling of this situation. You will need to excuse me while I go vomit up my own breakfast.
 
First off no dosing advice was given in Pms which is the violation of the board. Offers to help REHOME were offered both here and in private messages. Not a violation of the board.

Second We have repeatedly tried to STOP EUTHANASIA BY OFFERS TO HELP REHOME. We have been asked in one breath to help REHOME and the next breath told its cruel to give her to a stranger.

Offers have been given for a new home. Offers to contact possible foster homes have been made both publicly and in private.

It is Rosie's care giver that has been insistent that killing her is the best course of action. She is the one that has stated the Rosie needs more care than her health and the health of her child allows to give.

If she can not give this the time, attention, or resources to treat properly and will not allow another to adopt or foster Rosie then as much as it hurts all of us then yes the best course of action is to send Rosie lovingly to the Bridge.

It is NOT the outcome any of us want.

Yes I am normally very calm and level headed so for me to snap Means I've been pushed to my breaking point.

So Deb what more would you like us to do? How many threats by Rosie's care giver to put to sleep would you ask us to endure? How many offers of help to find a workable solution only to be slapped in the face do you want us to tolerate?

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
I'm closing this thread because it is no longer helpful to the cat or the caregiver. Any points that may have been valid have been lost amid the name-calling.

Please, everyone, be nice.
 
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