2/4 Davidson UPDATE: +2 80 +4.5 70 +5 66 PMPS 233

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Shawna & Davidson (GA)

Shawna & Davidson (GA)

Member Since 2014
Looks like Davidson prefers a slight bounce before he calls it a night, but it's short lived and this morning was back in the blues and looking forward to seeing what he has in store for today.


Thanks

Shawna
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson QUESTION update AMPS 156 Lowest yet

GREAT NEWS - lowest preshot yet with 156

QUESTION: Is there anything I need to WATCH OUT FOR? I have to leave here for 2-3 hrs at 11:30am and want to make sure I'm not going to have problems............

It may look like he can drop to pretty low numbers and if it is not safe for me to leave I have to cancel my appt.

Thanks for the advance advise

Shawna
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson QUESTION update AMPS 156 Lowest yet

What a nice cycle yesterday .... Davidson is getting in the groove. :mrgreen:

I'd definitely get that +2....
and if you are worried, get a +1 since you said he doesn't mind the testing and the treats....
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson QUESTION update AMPS 156 Lowest yet

Thanks Rhiannon........I'll get a +1 and +2............he knows as he's sitting on the keyboard waiting for treats...........should I take away his food, he was fed at 5:50am, then taken away at 07:30 and fed again at 09:30 after the shot.
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson QUESTION update AMPS 156 Lowest yet

Food should be given up to 2 hours prior to the shot, and if given any later the # would be food influenced, and you don't want that. Once the shot is given, then feed him as close to the shot time as possible.

If he's the only kitty, put a bit of food out for him so that he doesn't get too low on you while you're not there. You can mix a bit of LC and MC together, which should keep him stable until you get back home to test. Keep in mind that it may raise his PS #s a bit, though, but expect that.
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson QUESTION update AMPS 156 Lowest yet

K - thanks..........I think Wendy mentioned that to me as well - thanks for the re-assurance
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson QUESTION update AMPS 156 Lowest yet

Having food out after you shoot is fine. Multiple small meals puts less burden on a healing pancreas and has the advantage of helping to prevent numbers from dropping too fast. I'd gauge what you do based on the +2 test. If numbers are dropping, feed some MC (medium carb) at +2 and retest and feed in 30 min.
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson QUESTION update AMPS 156 Lowest yet

+1 123 and YES, he eats several times a day when I put food out about 2 oz x 4-5 times per day. I always remove the food 2 hrs prior to shot and yes, testing and shooting are done within 30 seconds, then he gets treats and food.

UPDATE: Spoke to Vet and he also agrees Davidson is doing VERY well and looking at his numbers from the past few day he recommends REDUCING the dose by 0.25 within a few days or more depending on what transpires today.

If Davidson drops between 50-60 he suggests dropping dose tonight. For the time I have to leave today, as all of you suggests, leave out about 2 oz of MC food.......ahh what a treat he and Harley will get for a couple hours. I'm back by 2pm so not that bad.

Thanks again and will test at +2

Shawnaw
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson QUESTION update AMPS 156 Lowest yet

Here is the protocol guidelines for reducing a dose for a newly diagnosed kitty:

Reducing the dose:
If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. See additional notes in the next paragraph about drops into the 20s and 30s. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.
Click to expand...

Since Davidson is newly diagnosed, and if he drops below 50, that would be considered a dose reduction of 0.25u for him.

In looking at his spread sheet, he's starting to see better #s with each new dose increase that you give him. The goal is to try and maintain #s between 50 and 120, which are considered the healing #s for the pancreas. The ultimate goal is to try and get his #s safely in the green range, between 50 and 99, and stay there. Some are able to get there, and others not so much, but they're mostly between the 50-120 range.

Hope that helps.
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson QUESTION update AMPS 156 Lowest yet

Good Morning ~O) :cool:

I see Davidison is still rockin this dose \M/ \M/ \M/

You said your vet was good to work with. Have you provided him with a copy of the TR protocol?
I'm wondering why he wants you to stray from the guidelines for reductions (which Angela provided in her post)?
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson QUESTION update AMPS 156 Lowest yet

Hi..........

+2 80

My Vet is very familiar with Diabetes as he has his own cat with FD..............I am not dropping the dose yet, but if he drops to <50 then I will drop it. I am giving him some MC food right now since I have to leave and don't want him to Hypo when I am gone............back at 14:00 to do another test.

Looking good

Shawna
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson QUESTION update AMPS 156 Lowest yet

I'm glad that your vet is familiar with FD, however I wouldn't recommend dropping the dose when/if Davidson goes between 50-60 as your vet suggests in an earlier post. I would stick with the protocol, and I hope that is your intention as you mentioned in your post above mine. Just making sure that we're understanding what you're saying, is all. He's looking good for sure, though! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson QUESTION update AMPS 156 Lowest yet

+4.5 70........a nice low dose and unfortunately I was not able to be here for a +3 or +4

I strongly feel that had I not given Davidson MC (Fancy Feast Grilled Chicken Feast in Gravy) food approx 2oz at 11:30am before I left that he would be under 50 and more then likely Hypo'd. That mean a .25 reduction and depending on what Davidson does today will depend if I reduce the dose............my vet gets the updates and personal conversations daily from me so is well aware of what Davidson is doing and how he is progressing. I'll do another test at +5, +6 and see if he starts to climb - that will say it all.

Thanks,
Shawna
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson UPDATE: +2 80 +4.5 70

+5 66.......Davidson is still dropping even after feeding him MC food 3 hrs ago at +2..........

I have to agree with my Vet to reduce the dose as we just spoke and had I not given him MC food (not even sure if the FF Chicken/Gravy is HC or MC) he would have reached the <50 mark.

Any feedback?

Shawna
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson UPDATE: +2 80 +4.5 70

Honestly, I would follow the protocol, and not the vet. That's just me, though. (been there, done that with my own former vet) If you want to give a snack of food to keep Davidson from dropping any further, then do so. Then test in 20-30 minutes after you give the snack. Try to not overload on the food and only give a teaspoon. When it comes to meal time, you want Davidson to eat his meal after his shot is given.

Right now, try a teaspoon of food and then test in 20-30 minutes. You can try a mix of 1/2 teaspoon of both LC and MC together then give it to him.

If you follow the vet's advice, you could end up seeing higher #s again. That's just a guess.
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson UPDATE: +2 80 +4.5 70 +5 66

Thanks Angela;

Why not just test without food to get a realistic reading? The food will spike his numbers and are we not trying to see what the insulin is doing with Davidson's body? Food and portion control is not a problem here.

He's going up now as the +5.5 is 73

FYI - I fired the first Vet and this one is probably the BEST I've ever experienced in 37 yrs of having pets and dealing with a variety of pets.

Since he is going up I will keep him at this dose for another cycle and make the decision tomorrow once his AMPS is given. Sometimes you have to heed on the side of experience and diligence and in this case my Vet has both. How many of you get calls out of the blue to see how your pet is doing when he's not even a client? Davidson just switched to him less then 3 weeks ago and saw him on once on Jan 15th, yet I've spoken to his office each day at least once and to my Vet every other day. I trust him and that is all the matters at this point, HOWEVER I do take into account the protocol and haven't swayed yet.
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson UPDATE: +2 80 +4.5 70 +5 66

So, he's going up on his own, then, and not dropping any further?

Not knowing when you give the shot, I only suggested providing him with a snack if you were concerned about him dropping further than 66, which it sounded like you were.

So, with that, you know what you're doing, and you're doing a good job. :smile:
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson UPDATE: +2 80 +4.5 70 +5 66

Yup!! Davidson went down on his own (shot at 09:30am) and last numbers at +5.5 were 73........I was going to test again at +7 or +8 but thought I'd give his ears a rest - do you think I should test again before the PMPS?

My only concern was when I was out that he would go into Hypo mode, hence the food given to him probably spiked his numbers up and while I was gone he was okay.

THANKS for checking up on him, he's fast asleep as he had a busy day...........haha.

Should be interesting to see what he does tonight, and again tomorrow. This is a great diet for us, never sleep -too busy to eat, and always worrying about our kitties so we loose weight just thinking about it. Just in time for summer time bikini's

Shawna
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson UPDATE: +2 80 +4.5 70 +5 66

You can test again before the PMPS test, if you want. That'll give you an idea of how he's doing, and whether he went up any further, or down.
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson UPDATE: +2 80 +4.5 70 +5 66

okay, thanks..........is it best to test before feeding time at 18:00 hrs? I have to take the food away 2 hrs before PMPS.........what do you think?
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson UPDATE: +2 80 +4.5 70 +5 66

You can test him before the next shot, and you can feed up to 2 hours prior to his next shot. You don't want to test him after you've fed him as you'll get a food influenced # instead of a non-food influenced #. If you choose to feed him up to the +10 mark, make sure that it's only snacks, and not a large amount, otherwise he may not want to eat when you give the shot. You need to make sure that he eats after you give the shot.

Make sense?
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson UPDATE: +2 80 +4.5 70 +5 66

Look at Davidson, getting his green on! :cool:
Hoist the :mrgreen: flag!

GECKO said:
My only concern was when I was out that he would go into Hypo mode,
Click to expand...
Honestly, short of an accidental OD, I can't recall any LL cats following the TR protocol experiencing a symptomatic hypo.

Did the MC prop up the numbers?- Probably.
To what degree? - No way to know
Did he see 50 or lower between +2 and +4.5? - also unknown
Is 50 dangerous? - No

I'd get a few tests in before PMPS - this is an active cycle -the data will be valuable in the future. If 18:00 is a normal meal time, grab a test before.

GECKO said:
Why not just test without food to get a realistic reading? The food will spike his numbers and are we not trying to see what the insulin is doing with Davidson's body?
Click to expand...
I don't recommend intervening with food at a time that is not a regular meal time unless a cycle needs guiding.On the flip side, I would not withhold a regularly scheduled meal just to see the effect of the insulin.

Guiding a cycle is something we all learn at some point. It's part of the dance. Besides keeping kitty safe, keeping kitty in the normal BG range as long a possible
serves to ease future counter-regulatory system freak outs and also provides the best environment for the pancreas to heal.

Regarding reducing without actually seeing a number under 50, the only risk I see is that the reduction will not hold, possibly derailing the momentum he is currently experiencing. If the reduction doesn't hold, then you go back up to the last good dose. There is not a prescribed number of cycles to determine if a reduction has failed, generally in a couple cycles you can tell.

That's my $0.02 :cool:
Hopefully others will chime in.
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson UPDATE: +2 80 +4.5 70 +5 66

Agree............+9 138 so slowly rising and next test is at PMPS...........then the shot and I think I am safe to 'maybe' get some sleep tonight after the +2 test.

Hey - the only OD lately is PSH which was most unfortunate since he was a great actor, and didn't have the courage to seek help. A real loss there...........

What does LL stand for?? oh wait Lantus/Levimir?

Rgds

Shawna
 
Re: 2/4 Davidson UPDATE: +2 80 +4.5 70 +5 66

i don't know if anyone has told you this or not, but non-diabetic cats are commonly in the 40's. i tested one for a friend who suspected diabetes, and the cat was 44. my vet said that's not uncommon for non-diabetic cats. it helped me feel better when punkin was getting into lower numbers.

We bring them up beginning when they dip below 50 because when you are injecting insulin, you want wiggle room - or maybe better called a safety zone - so that they don't go into dangerous numbers. i tested punkin once in the 30's and he showed no signs of hypoglycemia.

now that you've been doing this a while, you might find it interesting to read the "Low Numbers" yellow starred sticky at the top of this forum. every time i read it more information jumps out at me, and i've already read it a hundred times probably. Especially the part on being Data Ready to shoot lower numbers. The interesting thing that happens when you shoot lower numbers (ie, shooting a preshot number less than 100) is that the cycle tends to flatten out, which is fantastic for healing the pancreas.

In any case, great cycle today. good call on leaving out the food - that's our main tool for keeping a cat safe when we have to go out. if you don't have one already, a timed feeder is wonderful to help with that. We had thisPetsafe 5 Compartment Feeder and i really liked it. Helped us out tremendously when i went back to work.
 
Thanks Julie.........I thought I'd try to test Harley, but he wants nothing of it since he's like his mom and ADHD and won't sit still for a second. Luckily Davidson is a big teddy bear and you can do anything to him and he just sucks it all up, had Harley been the one with FD then it would have been a nightmare. Ha-ha, now I know what it was like when I was a kid trying to get me to sit still to get a needle - not a chance.

PMPS is 233, so I guess I will be able to sleep tonight. I will get a test before I close my tired eyes.............

Thank you all.........
Shawna
 
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