2/28Max/Elise AMPS 345 +6=236 +10=297PMPS269
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Angela & Blackie & 3 Others
Member Since 2010
Re: 2/28Max/Elise AMPS 345
I hope that his #s improve very quickly for you.
If I may make a suggestion, and as an experiment, try moving his feeding times around a bit, and perhaps allowing a bit of time between meals, and see what his #s do. Some cats do better with less food during the day, but some may do better with less food during the day, but more mini meals as snacks. Every cat is different.
The reason why I suggest that was a while back, I tried feeding Blackie PS, +1, +2 and +3 meals for the longest time, but her #s were always so high. So I started to increase the food amounts with the PS, +1, and +2, and eliminated the +3 meals altogether (I took the +3 and divided the amount between the PS, +1 and +2 meals to make them bigger). Eventually I got her to where I'm feeding her PS and +1. I tried that instead of working with the doses to see if it worked, and so far it is. You may want to try a different low carb food to help Max lower his #s, too (providing you're not already using one that is). All you can do is try and see if it helps, and if it doesn't, then you can always go back to where you're at now, and try something else.
FD is a trial and error thing. Eventually, you'll find something that will work.
I hope that his #s improve very quickly for you.
If I may make a suggestion, and as an experiment, try moving his feeding times around a bit, and perhaps allowing a bit of time between meals, and see what his #s do. Some cats do better with less food during the day, but some may do better with less food during the day, but more mini meals as snacks. Every cat is different.
The reason why I suggest that was a while back, I tried feeding Blackie PS, +1, +2 and +3 meals for the longest time, but her #s were always so high. So I started to increase the food amounts with the PS, +1, and +2, and eliminated the +3 meals altogether (I took the +3 and divided the amount between the PS, +1 and +2 meals to make them bigger). Eventually I got her to where I'm feeding her PS and +1. I tried that instead of working with the doses to see if it worked, and so far it is. You may want to try a different low carb food to help Max lower his #s, too (providing you're not already using one that is). All you can do is try and see if it helps, and if it doesn't, then you can always go back to where you're at now, and try something else.
FD is a trial and error thing. Eventually, you'll find something that will work.
tiffmaxee
Member Since 2013
Re: 2/28Max/Elise AMPS 345
I am willing to try anything. I cut out his Hairball Remedy but that can't be the problem as his numbers are worse. Based on the ingredients I didn't think that was the problem but tried just in case. He is eating only fancy feast classics which are the lowest in carbs so I'm not sure what else to try in that way. He also gets a spoonful of Gerber's baby food with his gel cap in the morning and that can't be the reason either. His only treats are 100% chicken or turkey with nothing added so that isn't the issue.
I feed him right after his insulin his baby food and 1/4 can ff. At +2 if he wants the other 1/4. Then at +4. Next feeding is after his test at +6-7. If I need to leave sooner he gets his good left out then. He then eats at +9-9.5 if he wants it. Then again after insulin. I try to put out food at night after his +4-5 to last through the night but he tends to eat most of it within an hour. He cries forfood at +10.5 but doesn't get fed then. So he eats small amounts often. I'm afraid to switch to two feeding a day because of pancreatitis. What is so confusing is that this works and then doesn't. You would think that if food was responsible he would maybe be going low during the night. So I tested at +7 one night to see if he was dropping a lot and he wasn't. I am open to any and all suggestions. He acts fine and isn't drinking a lot of water but still urinates a lot. Of course he gets water through his food.
I am willing to try anything. I cut out his Hairball Remedy but that can't be the problem as his numbers are worse. Based on the ingredients I didn't think that was the problem but tried just in case. He is eating only fancy feast classics which are the lowest in carbs so I'm not sure what else to try in that way. He also gets a spoonful of Gerber's baby food with his gel cap in the morning and that can't be the reason either. His only treats are 100% chicken or turkey with nothing added so that isn't the issue.
I feed him right after his insulin his baby food and 1/4 can ff. At +2 if he wants the other 1/4. Then at +4. Next feeding is after his test at +6-7. If I need to leave sooner he gets his good left out then. He then eats at +9-9.5 if he wants it. Then again after insulin. I try to put out food at night after his +4-5 to last through the night but he tends to eat most of it within an hour. He cries forfood at +10.5 but doesn't get fed then. So he eats small amounts often. I'm afraid to switch to two feeding a day because of pancreatitis. What is so confusing is that this works and then doesn't. You would think that if food was responsible he would maybe be going low during the night. So I tested at +7 one night to see if he was dropping a lot and he wasn't. I am open to any and all suggestions. He acts fine and isn't drinking a lot of water but still urinates a lot. Of course he gets water through his food.
Re: 2/28Max/Elise AMPS 345 +6=236
It's possible he's clearing a bounce. It would be great if you are able to get a +10 so you can see at PMPS if he's still dropping and, if so, how much.
I'd be wary of feeding at or around nadir because it slows the effects of the insulin. The insulin is already, typically, waning around nadir and if you feed, it throws the brakes on whatever action is left. If you think of it as being similar to driving a car where you are racing towards a stop sign and you throw on the brakes 50' out. You will probably stop right smack there and never make it to the stop sign. But if you just take your foot off the accelerator and let the car slow itself, you'll glide to the stop sign
It's possible he's clearing a bounce. It would be great if you are able to get a +10 so you can see at PMPS if he's still dropping and, if so, how much.
I'd be wary of feeding at or around nadir because it slows the effects of the insulin. The insulin is already, typically, waning around nadir and if you feed, it throws the brakes on whatever action is left. If you think of it as being similar to driving a car where you are racing towards a stop sign and you throw on the brakes 50' out. You will probably stop right smack there and never make it to the stop sign. But if you just take your foot off the accelerator and let the car slow itself, you'll glide to the stop sign
tiffmaxee
Member Since 2013
Re: 2/28Max/Elise AMPS 345 +6=236
Okay. I need help figuring this out. Max seems to get hungry at +10-10.5 in the morning before hisorning insulin but I can't feed him then. He eats after insulin and today wanted more at +2:45. Then he is used to eating at +6.5.-7. If he has eaten enough I hold food until after insulin. If not he gets a little at +9-9.5. He's used to free feeding. Are you saying its best that he eat between +1"6 in each cycle? I will do another check at +10 today.
Another thought I have that Max ate at 11:30 last night and then not again until 7 this morning even though he was hungry at 5:30. I'm a but concerned it is too long to go without food due to the pancreatitis. This is so complicated. Thanks fir the advice.
Well he is going back up at +10 BUT he did eat after Nadir but nothing in the last few hours.
Elise
Okay. I need help figuring this out. Max seems to get hungry at +10-10.5 in the morning before hisorning insulin but I can't feed him then. He eats after insulin and today wanted more at +2:45. Then he is used to eating at +6.5.-7. If he has eaten enough I hold food until after insulin. If not he gets a little at +9-9.5. He's used to free feeding. Are you saying its best that he eat between +1"6 in each cycle? I will do another check at +10 today.
Another thought I have that Max ate at 11:30 last night and then not again until 7 this morning even though he was hungry at 5:30. I'm a but concerned it is too long to go without food due to the pancreatitis. This is so complicated. Thanks fir the advice.
Well he is going back up at +10 BUT he did eat after Nadir but nothing in the last few hours.
Elise
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 2/28Max/Elise AMPS 345 +6=236 +10=297
i think i'd increase his dose to 1.75u. he's had 10 cycles since the green numbers and it might be that he just needs a little more insulin.
i'm not sure what to suggest about the timing of the food. in general, i think feeding after +5 or so can result in higher numbers. Punkin had chronic pancreatitis and i was never told to feed him more often, and i only fed him at preshot and +3. I think the only way to figure out if it has an effect on his numbers is to try feeding only between preshot and +4 or 5 and see what happens. then decide if it's helped his numbers or not.
it may be that an increase will provide Max with the better numbers we're all hoping for.
i think i'd increase his dose to 1.75u. he's had 10 cycles since the green numbers and it might be that he just needs a little more insulin.
i'm not sure what to suggest about the timing of the food. in general, i think feeding after +5 or so can result in higher numbers. Punkin had chronic pancreatitis and i was never told to feed him more often, and i only fed him at preshot and +3. I think the only way to figure out if it has an effect on his numbers is to try feeding only between preshot and +4 or 5 and see what happens. then decide if it's helped his numbers or not.
it may be that an increase will provide Max with the better numbers we're all hoping for.
tiffmaxee
Member Since 2013
I'm going to experiment with changing Max's feeding times. I'll feed him after insulin, 4-5 hours after that, after insulin, and 3-4 hours after that. I'll do that for the weekend and see if it helps. If not I will increase his dose. Does that sound like an acceptable plan? I think that way he won't be eating too much at a time and often enough to avoid stomach acid issues. What do you think?
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
when you say "feed him after insulin" you mean right away, don't you? i think that's what you mean, not that you wait a while to feed.
yes, that's fine if you want to try that first. my only hesitation is that holding a dose too long can cause you to need more insulin to move numbers. that's why the protocol just has doses being held relatively short amounts of time (6-10 cycles for most doses) until you're seeing green nadirs.
but perhaps doing it this weekend would give you some answers that will help later. it's worth tweaking things to see how Max reacts and what helps.
yes, that's fine if you want to try that first. my only hesitation is that holding a dose too long can cause you to need more insulin to move numbers. that's why the protocol just has doses being held relatively short amounts of time (6-10 cycles for most doses) until you're seeing green nadirs.
but perhaps doing it this weekend would give you some answers that will help later. it's worth tweaking things to see how Max reacts and what helps.
I'll speak for Julie....yes, I would increase his dose and experiment with his foods.
Before Gracie was FD, I fed her whenever she asked for it until she ate her portion of food she was allotted based on calories. So she usually ate all day and evening.....small amounts. But then after FD, I changed her feeding schedule so she wasn't working against the insulin.
If she gets hungry late in the cycle, I just give her a very small amount of boiled chicken breast and she is fine.
Before Gracie was FD, I fed her whenever she asked for it until she ate her portion of food she was allotted based on calories. So she usually ate all day and evening.....small amounts. But then after FD, I changed her feeding schedule so she wasn't working against the insulin.
If she gets hungry late in the cycle, I just give her a very small amount of boiled chicken breast and she is fine.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
hehe i'll speak for marje, ;-) yes, it's fine to try that feeding schedule! :lol:
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