2/28 Java PMPS 308

[Steph and Java(GA)]

yesterday

I would really like to start seeing some lower numbers, what am I doing wrong? Could the food thing be a culprit here? I don't see any way around it, he grazes. period. I have tried meal-feeding and they wouldn't eat. So in the morning we test, feed and shoot and at the first sitting he probably eats 1/4th of a can(3.3oz)if that. Then he comes back every hour or so and eats a littel more. He eats a whole can but over the course of a whole day. On days I don't have a night class I can pull the food around 5-6 but when I have class, 2 nights a week I get home right at test time. We test/shoot at 8:30 am/pm. Any ideas? Should I stick with the 1.5 and wait until I see my vet on the 17th for Java's dental? I really am trying to be patient. I know this doesn't happen overnight but I just hate seeing so much pink.

 

[Steph and Java(GA)]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 question, please?

confused_cat bump

 

[Christie & Willie (GA)]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 question, please?

Bumping for wiser eyes.

If you are feeding the proper foods, I suspect that Java just hasn't found the right dose yet. I think an increase is likely a good thing to consider... Java has been at 1.5 for quite some time now. while waiting for a response, I would look over the stickies regarding the protocol and when/how to increase.

good luck!!

 

[Steph and Java(GA)]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 +4.5 269 question, please?

thanks Christie. I have read the stickies many times but if I understand it right if I can't get a nadir everyday, I should leave it where its at?

 

[Karrie and Maverick]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 question, please?

Maverick is also a grazer. And like Java he will not eat if I try and get him to eat on a schedule.

You recently had a diver didn't you? Bump.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 +4.5 269 question, please?

I agree with Christie that it looks like he needs more juice but remember if you do this, just increase by .25u. What I would suggest is that you change your subject title to "DOSE ????" and that will catch the attention of the dosing experts who can confirm whether you should increase. But....if you look at the protocol, looks like you might want to. They can also tell you what to do around his dental as far as adjusting his insulin.

On feeding....when Gracie was diagnosed, we fed small amounts to her all day, too. We kept this up at first and started getting high PSs. So then we switched her to the same feeding schedule as most people do..PS, +1, +2, +3 and a +5 snack. Unless she is staying low and I need to bump her up a bit for her PS, we don't feed past +5. Overall, our PSs are better unless she is in a bad bounce as she is a bouncer. It took some adjustment on her part but she did it and she is now used to this feeding schedule. Of course, there is always one of us around to be sure she gets a +5 snack so it might be more difficult if you are working; I know we can't use timed feeders because of our kitten who will eat anything, any time. I would be sure you know exactly the %carbs you are giving him, too. That is an ECID issue. Routinely, I use 4% with Gracie and then go to 6% if she's coming down and sometimes 8% but alot of cats can't eat that high %carbs....it was trial and error for us. I started with 1-2% carbs and she was diving like crazy so we upped them.

 

[Laurie and Mr Tinkles]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 question, please?

yesterday

I would really like to start seeing some lower numbers, what am I doing wrong? Could the food thing be a culprit here? I don't see any way around it, he grazes. period. I have tried meal-feeding and they wouldn't eat. So in the morning we test, feed and shoot and at the first sitting he probably eats 1/4th of a can(3.3oz)if that. Then he comes back every hour or so and eats a littel more. He eats a whole can but over the course of a whole day. On days I don't have a night class I can pull the food around 5-6 but when I have class, 2 nights a week I get home right at test time. We test/shoot at 8:30 am/pm. Any ideas? Should I stick with the 1.5 and wait until I see my vet on the 17th for Java's dental? I really am trying to be patient. I know this doesn't happen overnight but I just hate seeing so much pink.

Hi Steph,

I know those higher numbers are frustrating! As far as food, some kitties are grazers, and that's ok...in fact, if he is grazing hourly early in the cycle, that's good. If he's grazing more so after nadir, it could be pushing up his PS numbers. Unfortunately, if you aren't there to pick up the bowl, there's not much you can do about late cycle grazing unless you can get an automatic feeder. The one I have can be set for 5 meals, you could set it to turn to an empty chamber in order to prevent late cycle eating. We also front load the cycle, feeding mini meals at PS, +2, +3 and +4, and a snack at +6 and only feed after nadir if numbers demand it. I can't free feed, I have a piggie civie that would eat all the food!

I looked at Java's SS (very handsome kitty, BTW!) and I think you have room to increase to 1.75u. The only thing that gives me a little bit of hesitation is that cycle where Java dropped into the mid greens, and not a lot of spot checks. It appears that Java, like a lot of cats, may go lower at night than during the day....the red AMPS yesterday looks like a bounce from possible lower numbers the previous night. I'm not seeing a lot of nightime spot checks after +2, and it would really help if you could get some spot checks around +4 so you can get an idea where Java is heading before you go to sleep. I'm not sure what your schedule is during the day either, would it be possible to get some out-the-door and in-the-door tests before/after work? Any extra spot checks will help you see how the insulin is working for Java.

 

[Steph and Java(GA)]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 +4.5 269

I think maybe I will stay the course this week and work on getting more spot checks. I don't work but I am in school tu/th full days and m/w partial days. I will try and focus on getting more checks in the afternoon when I am home and re-evaluate in a week or so. I am only feeding the FF classics. I think they are 3% but I can't find them on the chart right now. Maybe there is something better? They love canned food and i don't think I would have a problem switching if there was something better carbwise or one that kitties reacted to better. Thanks for all the advice I am having a hard time seeing those big numbers.

 

[Christie & Willie (GA)]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 +4.5 269 question, please?

3% is good. There are some out there lower... we picked up the following this weekend:

Sophisticat (petsmart only) mixed grill 0%
Sophisticat Supreme something similar to "mixed grill" (1%)
Merrick BG (1-2%, depending on variety)
Evo 95% Chicken/Turkey (0%)

We generally feed raw, which is 0%, but with Willie so low, I am experimenting more with canned foods to help control his cycle. Knowing I had to go to tbp (work) today, I wanted to get his AMPS of 77 up some so he would be surfing off a higher number. Gave him some 8% friskies food, got him into low blues, then gave some 12% Merrick Thanksgiving Dinner that I cut 50/50 with his raw food to give me a roughly 6% carb mix.

I literally had the charts pulled up on my cellphone and spent about 30 minutes looking at different options, then bought several to have on hand to experiment with. Luckily, Willie is, for the most part, a pretty good eater. He seldom gets finicky!

 

[Michelle and Mannie (GA)]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 +4.5 269 question, please?

Hi Steph - I can understand too your frustration. I think you have room to increase, but I think too all would be more comfortable with a few more spot checks so you can see how the insulin a working for Java.

3% cab food is good. And I think too it's OK if he is a grazer, some kitties do well with that. others do better with a schedule. My guy used to be a grazer too. We are in the same boat as marjorie and Gracie - same type of situation. He has done much better since we now feed on a schedule. I wish you luck. perhaps it is just a matter of finding the right dose.

 

[Laurie and Mr Tinkles]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 +4.5 269 question, please?

I really don't think it's in Java's best interest to wait until next week, honestly. The longer they sit in higher numbers, the more they get used to them and then it's harder to get them to come down. You don't want to hold doses too long. I do think there's room for the increase, his numbers are higher since you had that one lower cycle. I just would like to see more spot checks after you increase to make sure he isn't going low when you aren't catching it. BTW, the bounce I referred to does not necessarily mean that he is going too low, it just indicates that he is going lower than he is used to...blues can cause a bounce, as can steep drops even if they don't go low.

We don't like those high numbers anymore than you do, trust me! We just want to make sure he is safe, that's the first priority. Are you able to get some spot checks a bit later than +2 in the PM cycle?

For food, we use EVO and EVO 95%. Wellness is good also, right now there's a coupon you can print out in the Supply Closet for Wellness (I love saving money! :lol: ) The Merrick foods are also good, lower in fat than the other two I mentioned.

 

[Steph and Java(GA)]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 +4.5 269 question, please?

I really don't think it's in Java's best interest to wait until next week, honestly. The longer they sit in higher numbers, the more they get used to them and then it's harder to get them to come down. You don't want to hold doses too long. I do think there's room for the increase, his numbers are higher since you had that one lower cycle. I just would like to see more spot checks after you increase to make sure he isn't going low when you aren't catching it. BTW, the bounce I referred to does not necessarily mean that he is going too low, it just indicates that he is going lower than he is used to...blues can cause a bounce, as can steep drops even if they don't go low.

We don't like those high numbers anymore than you do, trust me! We just want to make sure he is safe, that's the first priority. Are you able to get some spot checks a bit later than +2 in the PM cycle?

For food, we use EVO and EVO 95%. Wellness is good also, right now there's a coupon you can print out in the Supply Closet for Wellness (I love saving money! :lol: ) The Merrick foods are also good, lower in fat than the other two I mentioned.

Yes I am generally an insomniac even though Java isn't but I will get more PM checks. Wednesday I will be home most of the day, only 1 class and then thursday I am gone from AMPS to PMPS. I have used EVO and wellness both and I will pick some up. So Should I increase him right away?

 

[Steph and Java(GA)]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 +4.5 269 question, please?

Hi Steph - I can understand too your frustration. I think you have room to increase, but I think too all would be more comfortable with a few more spot checks so you can see how the insulin a working for Java.

3% cab food is good. And I think too it's OK if he is a grazer, some kitties do well with that. others do better with a schedule. My guy used to be a grazer too. We are in the same boat as marjorie and Gracie - same type of situation. He has done much better since we now feed on a schedule. I wish you luck. perhaps it is just a matter of finding the right dose.

I will get more PM checks, will that help? I guess if I wasn't able to do a full curve, I didn't think of doing checks here and there. It is all a bit much to figure out.

 

[Steph and Java(GA)]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 +4.5 269 question, please?

3% is good. There are some out there lower... we picked up the following this weekend:

Sophisticat (petsmart only) mixed grill 0%
Sophisticat Supreme something similar to "mixed grill" (1%)
Merrick BG (1-2%, depending on variety)
Evo 95% Chicken/Turkey (0%)

We generally feed raw, which is 0%, but with Willie so low, I am experimenting more with canned foods to help control his cycle. Knowing I had to go to tbp (work) today, I wanted to get his AMPS of 77 up some so he would be surfing off a higher number. Gave him some 8% friskies food, got him into low blues, then gave some 12% Merrick Thanksgiving Dinner that I cut 50/50 with his raw food to give me a roughly 6% carb mix.

I literally had the charts pulled up on my cellphone and spent about 30 minutes looking at different options, then bought several to have on hand to experiment with. Luckily, Willie is, for the most part, a pretty good eater. He seldom gets finicky!

I am going to try some new foods. I have some higher carb on hand but I need to have a little more of a range and variety. I will make a list and hit the stores.

 

[Laurie and Mr Tinkles]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 +4.5 269 question, please?

Yes, I would increase right away as long as you can get those spot checks.

Curves are nice for certain information...to get an idea of onset, nadir and duration. But for how well the insulin/dose is working, spot checks in every cycle are your best source of information. Every cycle is not the same, so if you happen to do a curve on a day when your cat is bouncing, that doesn't provide you with much good data.

 

[Libby and Lucy]

Re: 2/28 Java AMPS 332 +4.5 269 question, please?

I agree about the dose increase. I would go ahead and increase. The longer you let Java sit in higher numbers, the more he can get used to those numbers and the harder it can be to get him down again.

FYI, when I am helping someone, I would much rather see spot checks here and there on different cycles than a full curve. Those miscellaneous spot checks, when pieced together, give a much more complete picture of what is really going on with the cat's insulin response than a curve all done in one cycle. Get tests whenever you can. Right before bed, maybe that is +3 some nights and +5 or +6 other nights. Maybe sometimes you get home from work at +11 or even +10, or you happen to be home at lunch time. Weekends, grab a test just before you head out to run errands and again as soon as you get home. Some people even manage to test if they get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom! Personally I can't do that as I would never get back to sleep. Over time you will build a very informative spreadsheet.

Good luck!