2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289 +7 1/2 400

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IloveLarry

IloveLarry

Member Since 2014
day 7 of lantus/ day 3 at 1.5 u. today was a fat 1.5 bc i havent perfected my shots yet. if i had squirted out another drop or 2 i think i would have lost the whole shot. the reli on r easier, than walgreens, i believe. odd. i got 1 shot to screw the other day! woohoo finally.
he jumped when the shot went in. i wish i knew whats happening. i tent it, and go at an angle. maybe bc he is so high? he was vry jumpy and hyper anyway. i dont want to hurt him :(
i give shot on the side, near the shoulder, while he eats. its the best place i have found.

hope to see u today, sue, lyresa, deb, some u older friends....larry says hi. :) he really is high :(
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591

What do you mean you go in at an angle? You should be shooting parallel to his skin so it goes in subcutaneously, not past the skin. This might be why he jumped.

Have you tried his flank near his back legs or the scruff of his neck?

It's hard to tell you why he's so high. Did you get a second test? Any time you have a number that is out of character, which the 591 is, you should retest to make sure you didn't get a wonky strip. There's also a possibility that he dipped lower overnight into a range his body didn't like, so it bounced. But no one can say that for sure because there are no overnight tests. Is it possible to grab a test sometime after his evening shot or before his morning shot so you have some more data to see how he's doing during that overnight cycle?
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591

i dont know how to explain on here. i do as the videos say/show, and the vet said. u go at an angle, not straight down! i was told on here not to use the scruff. i did that a few times b4 they said no.
and yes we can get some extra tests in, we will be doing that. its still the 1st week so not sure what to expect. if this is fairly typical, then all is well. :)
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591

Some people notice a difference in absorption when injecting in the scruff. I haven't had that problem. But ECID.

Definitely get some overnight tests. That will fill in pieces to the puzzle.
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591

that wasnt their reason, but i forget their reason? we discussed absorption and all. EPID u get all sorts of answers and have to pick which ones to go with.
its only been a week tmrw but i dont know what is typical, like an idea of what i would be seeing. i guess i can call the vet. having someone to talk with abt it helps a lot. it goes a long way for me.
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591

+1 and 45 mins. 289 :-D :-D :-D
earlier he was so hungry and restless, i believed the high number, but maybe it was wrong. yay larry! hes very calm, and no prob testing now :) thats how i can tell when he feels better.
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289

Wow! That's a huge drop in two hours! Larry was saying he doesn't like being high. @-) :lol: I hope he continues to drop nicely for you guys. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289

yea, surely the first test was wrong? but he was freaking out ready to eat and not letting me test so i thot maybe it was accurate. mornings, i have to put everything up, evn the water bowl. to ps. he is such a monkey wanting his shot/breakfast. its insane. i just wntd to give his shot to calm him, and it did. :)
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289

Sounds like Michelangelo in the morning. :lol: Two things that got it to work for me:
1. Bought a second glucometer to keep in my bedroom. Then, before I even open the bedroom door in the morning, I can easily snag him for his AMPS. Once that door opens, however, it's every cat for himself and he's nearly impossible to wrangle unless he wants me to test him.
2. Exhort him to cooperate for his shot by tempting him with access to the backyard. I discovered that the first thing he wants to do every morning is go outside. I'll leave the door closed as I stand by it and he'll come running over because he thinks I'm about to let him out. I give him his shot and then I let him out. :lol: Now I just need to find something that works as good for his PMS. :YMSIGH:
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289

yea, i think larrys only currency is food. he likes being brushed, an playing, but not enuf as a reward. and hes def. not like mikey....waiting on his food doesnt make him cooperate, it makes him nuts!
hes such a rascal. any time i walk near him his nose is twitching like a bunny! all he cares abt with me now is food wahhhhh :D
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289

He sounds more like my Henry when it comes to food. Henry normally listens to me, follows my rules, etc.... But when he's really starving (which is always), that boy! He'll jump on my counters (where he's not allowed), eat from the food dishes on the counters as I'm trying to make them food, knock things over, meow incessantly, run circles around my ankles to trip me up. ohmygod_smile Absolute nightmare! I have dropped whole bowls filled with food because of him.

So, what works with Henry? So far, it's to give him what he wants first and then he's more cooperative after because he's satiated. Except when it comes to treats. Those I just have to hide from him and only use when I'm trying to get him into the house for the night.

Speaking of satiety, another thing I did with Mikey was that I used to feed him a little bit of food first before I'd grab his AMPS and then feed him the rest of his meal. Yes, there is the whole "don't feed for two hours prior to shot," but the people who say that rule haven't dealt with a kitty like Michelangelo and it would take me at least an hour every morning to test because he was so hungry for his food. :YMSIGH: For my sanity, I started "ignoring" that rule. And, as long as you get the test within 15 minutes or so of eating, it shouldn't yet substantially reflect the food intake in the BGs.

But what to do if you get a low pre-shot number and you already fed him a little bit? For me, I started testing him throughout the day right before I'd feed him and then every hour for a couple of hours after I'd fed him to see when his numbers would go up from the food, when they'd start to come back down, and at what point during the cycle it happened. I learned how food affected his numbers so I didn't have to worry too much about the pre-shot number being food-influenced. I also will shoot at pretty much any pre-shot now so it doesn't matter if his pre-shot is 90 or 300, he's still getting his shot.
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289

yep, i have to give larry abt 1/8 of a standard size can, no more than 1/4. the trick is enuf for him to let me ps but not too much that he wont eat during the shot! tricky tricky! arghhhhh
i dont know why he seems to feel the shot sometimes and not others? theyre not supposed to feel it at all. ive watched all those videos. i am almost out of 31 syringes too. i dread using the 30s bc however slight, its still an increase for the times he feels it.
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289

I also will shoot at pretty much any pre-shot now so it doesn't matter if his pre-shot is 90 or 300, he's still getting his shot."

oh, and how do u shoot at 90?
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289

IloveLarry said:
i dont know why he seems to feel the shot sometimes and not others? theyre not supposed to feel it at all. ive watched all those videos. i am almost out of 31 syringes too. i dread using the 30s bc however slight, its still an increase for the times he feels it.
Click to expand...

Everyone says they shouldn't feel it and Lantus only "stings" at higher doses, but Mikey is one of those rare cats that can definitely feel his shot, from the very beginning a year and a half ago till now. I've changed shot locations, shooting techniques, warming the syringe, etc.... Makes no difference. He's not necessarily bothered by the prick as much as when the insulin goes in. I'll hopefully be switching to Levemir soon and that will definitively put to rest for me whether or not Mikey is just extra sensitive to the Lantus sting or if I'm doing something else wrong. :lol:

IloveLarry said:
oh, and how do u shoot at 90?
Click to expand...

You work your way down to that. Also have a read-through of the Shoot Low Sticky I posted above. Once you know Larry is on the correct dose, you start lowering your "no shot" number from 150 (200 on the Main Health Forum) to 140 then 130, etc.... Or, some people will throw a "pajama party" and jump right in with both feet and give a shot the first time they get a low pre-shot number if they'll be around to monitor. For me, I give a full dose shot usually on anything over 120 and feel comfortable leaving for work/being gone all day. Anything below 120, I'll either give a reduced dose or skip the shot if I'm not around to monitor. If I am around, I'll give the full dose and then I'll make sure to grab a +1 to see where he's heading and then a +2 (if the +1 is the same or lower than the pre-shot) or a +3 or +4 (if the +1 is higher).

ETA: If you check out Mikey's spreadsheet, you should see some low PMPS numbers that I gave a full dose, skipped, or gave a reduced dose on. It happens quite often with Mikey the better regulated he gets. Ideally with Lantus, you'll eventually see numbers flatten out and drop lower across the board. Mikey only gets "regulated" for a couple of weeks at a time where he'll run double-digit pre-shots and not drop any lower than 50 at nadir. Then, he either needs a decrease or an increase. :YMSIGH: Some cats can stay that way for a while (check out Holly and Max's spreadsheet). ECID. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289

hmmm ok. i found this to work well but someone had said dont do this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_3TLtN8XYo
he never flinched and we had no problems.
i remember thinking if his neck was shaved, it would be great. then when the vet was here, i had changed location and now i regret not having him shave it. grrr

yes i read that. i guess a bttr question is why would u shoot that low? if lantus takes 3 cycles to work, why a shot at 90? just curious.

oh, and i notice mikey stays in the yellow a lot, and some fuschia, a little blue. that makes me feel better abt larry. i thot these were way too high, but ur kitty has a lot of them.
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289

IloveLarry said:
hmmm ok. i found this to work well but someone had said dont do this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_3TLtN8XYo
he never flinched and we had no problems.
i remember thinking if his neck was shaved, it would be great. then when the vet was here, i had changed location and now i regret not having him shave it. grrr
Click to expand...

What shouldn't you do? Not inject into the scruff? You can inject into the scruff it that works for you, however, back to the ECID. Some cats (like Michelangelo) have a different absorption rate when injected into the scruff. If I give Mikey a shot in his scruff, his nadir will usually end up around +8 to +10 (or later) vs. the +5 to +7 when I inject in the flank. The other problem with the scruff is that it is more prone to forming lumps. But, if it's working for you right now, then by all means, don't change it till you're good and ready to do so. ;-)

IloveLarry said:
yes i read that. i guess a bttr question is why would u shoot that low? if lantus takes 3 cycles to work, why a shot at 90? just curious.

oh, and i notice mikey stays in the yellow a lot, and some fuschia, a little blue. that makes me feel better abt larry. i thot these were way too high, but ur kitty has a lot of them.
Click to expand...

Lantus doesn't take 3 cycles to work once the depot is built up. What happens is that with every shot, a little bit of insulin goes to work immediately and a little bit of insulin is "stored" in the depot to replace a little bit of insulin that is "released" from the depot. Where the 3 cycles comes in is when you're increasing the dose. This means the depot also needs to be "topped off" at the higher dose, which is why you have to wait till the depot is finished filling to the new dosage level to see if the increase is working. Hope that makes sense?

Yeah, Mikey is a bit of an odd ball when it comes to dosing. I have a feeling he has some form of insulin resistance going on because all he ever seems to need are increases. The only decrease he's ever received that worked for longer than a week was when he was off insulin for about 3 days and received sub-q three times when he had a bout of colitis back in August. He dropped a full unit from 2.5u to 1.5u and we've been slowly working our way back up to that dose since then. Decreases simply do not work on him and increases have to be done s l o w l y otherwise he drops like a rock into the 30s and 40s.

The basic rule to remember is that you want to keep them under 200 as much as possible and at least see some double-digits during peak/nadir. If they're running flat yellow (or higher) for days at a time, that's usually a sign they need a dose increase. Remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint. ;-)
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289

yes, the longer absorption time was another reason i stopped using the scruff. if i do it now, it may throw off everything i have observed so far with lantus. hmmm
lumps?? that doesnt sound good! yikes!
but yea i guess i have been doing something wrong :( maybe i will try scruff tonight.
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289 +7 1/2 400...opinion plz?

does any1 feel i shd go up to 2. U? in the am? or keep waiting? today is our 3rd day at 1.5. shd we wait until wed. or longer? any ideas? i am just asking. thank u.
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289 +7 1/2 400...opinion plz?

Wait 3 days/6 cycles, which means another shot tonight at 1.5u and if his numbers haven't budged by tomorrow morning, then increase to 1.75u.
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289 +7 1/2 400...opinion plz?

okie dokie. by budged...could u be more specific so i know in the am? thanks! :D

and....im hvng a really hard time being exact with lantus bc with N i just sat and seesawed it til i got my exact dose. my hands hurt so bad and it takes so much precision and coordination to get it just right. hoping i get better soon. have been practicing. sometimes i lose my shot tho, and have to start over, bc its so hard to be exact.
any tricks? twisting worked 1 day but not usually for me. if u draw ur shot, expell the bubble and then say...ur too low, what do U do? tips?
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289 +7 1/2 400...opinion plz?

If they've remained above 200 overnight. ;-)

I'm not one to give any tips or tricks because I completely defy the rules and I just leave the needle in the Lantus pen and adjust on the syringe that way. There's no way I have the patience or skill to take out the needle, squirt a little out to get the right dose, oversquirt, put it back into the pen, draw a little more again, take it out, squirt out too much YET AGAIN, rinse and repeat indefinitely. So far, none of my vials/pens have gone bad from it. Maybe I'll become a "cautionary tale" one day, but until then, I don't have the money to waste on squirting insulin into a paper towel, especially because I'm so seriously challenged when it comes to drawing out doses, I would have wasted more insulin than given out of each pen/vial if I did it the "officially correct" method.
 
I also don't draw it out the "officially correct" way. I draw the plunger to the right dose...I do not overdraw and squirt out. I do not have the money to be wasting any of that pricey insulin. I have a vial, not a pen. I rarely have a bubble though...and if I do I will flick it out so the syringe is completely filled.
 
oh, ok. so u both do it differently, than i read/was told. i was told never to reinsert, or shoot insulin back in the pen. thot it was a hardfast rule. it has been super stressful and its making the dose not as perfect/consistent as it would be. as i said, with N, i seesawed til i got it correct. it takes me time. i am shaky, sometimes numb, tingly, plus the pain, lack of coordination.
now i wonder, what i should do? i have had to waste some, and then also i dont feel good abt getting these real precise doses, either... especially like a .25 or .75! no way, without some leeway. hmmm
hopefully others will comment. i cant take a chance on ruining my pen, but i do want to get the dose correct :)
dilemma
 
The pen and the vial are different creatures. The pen is vacuum sealed and maintains it pressure by the rubber stopper that slides down as the insulin is withdrawn. It you don't shoot air into. A vial you can shoot air back into, but neither do you want to shoot insulin back into.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: 2/25 larry AMPS 591 +2 289 +7 1/2 400 PMPS 411

yea. i have the pen. i guess i have to keep wasting it then. draw up an extra unit or so to expel air bubble.
tonight was awful. larry did not want shot for some reason. glad this day is over. pray tmrw is bttr. goodnight all.
prayers, if u pray, plz.
 
You know, if the bubble is small enough, it may not make it down the needle into the cat.
 
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