? 2/25-Flame-AMPS=302,+7=281,+9.5=288,PMPS=338 - HOME from vet

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Donna and Flame

Donna and Flame

Member Since 2009
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-flat-so-far-good-or-bad.173739/#post-1904265

Good morning L&L,
Hope everyone is doing well on this Caturday.

Flame's breathing is still really bad this morning. He is getting more and more upset with the inhaler. I managed to get a few breaths of the Albuterol into him last nite twice, but it was such a struggle and he got so upset which made his breathing worse. He can't seem to settle this morning... he seems uncomfortable... up and down, up and down.

I emailed my vet last nite and asked about possibly kick starting him with a single shot of steroids and then we follow tomorrow with his regular dose of oral pred. We've done this in the past when he was bad and it seemed to help. Given his recently DX heart condition, I wanted to get your opinion as to whether you think it would be safe. I guess my reasoning is, he has probably had this heart condition for a while and we've used the steroid shot and he's tolerated it. In addition, I feel like the more he struggles to breathe, the more strain it's putting on his heart... all of him actually.

I've held off on his pred this morning while I figure out whether to take him in for the shot.

Please let me know what you think...

Thank you!!
My prayers go up for all who need them today. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Donna, if his breathing is that bad then yes, I think you need to take him in for the shot. It sounds like he's really struggling and he has to breath. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Donna, if his breathing is that bad then yes, I think you need to take him in for the shot. It sounds like he's really struggling and he has to breath. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thanks Karen... I'm so overwhelmed right now, I just feel like I need some reassurance from other people that have been where I am when trying to make these decisions cause my head is spinning. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

I'm also wondering whether my vet has the ability to give him a nebulizer treatment. Since I can't get him to take the inhaler, that may help.
 
I'm actually scared of giving him the shot but nothing else is working right now and the oral steroids are taking too long to have an effect.
 
Would your regular vet be able to ask the cardiologist he saw yesterday, about whether the shot is okay to give?
 
I wonder if an ER might be an option. I'm not there obviously but if he's really struggling to breath it's a big concern. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I went to look back at your condo from yesterday. Has your vet gotten a blood pressure for Flame? BP can affect kidney values.

I would go very carefully with fluids -- which is what your vet/cardiologist sound like they are suggesting. While the kidneys need water, additional fluid can cause a volume overload (hypervolemia) which makes the heart work harder and can push the problem into an episode of congestive heart failure. I'd also see about getting an additional test run -- a BNP. This will give you an idea if there is any damage to the heart muscle and may help to guide decisions about fluids.

I would discuss the use of a steroid shot very carefully with your vet. I did a quick Google search and there's some instances of CHF that was induced by steroids. Some of this research is old but I think it still warrants a discussion of the pros and cons with your vet or the cardiologist. Steroids can have an effect on fluid retention.
 
{{{{{{Donna }}}}}}} I am so sorry to hear that he is struggling so to breath. Sounds like a vet visit is in order. Sending vines and hugs. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Will be on my way to vet in a few minutes. Don't you know he's sleeping now!! Still breathing hard. RR just now was 17 breaths per minute.
Plan is one shot of steroid, they are going to try a nebulizer treatment - she said they don't have to put the mask on but can float it in front of his face and then I asked if they could put him in oxygen for a bit, so they might do that also if they think he needs it.

I'm not sure if she could get in touch with the cardiologist right now since it's Saturday, but I can ask. When I asked about the shot, she said we have to weigh the cost/benefit and right now his breathing is most important and she didn't think the 1 shot would do harm.

Prayers and vines please!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
I went to look back at your condo from yesterday. Has your vet gotten a blood pressure for Flame? BP can affect kidney values.

I would go very carefully with fluids -- which is what your vet/cardiologist sound like they are suggesting. While the kidneys need water, additional fluid can cause a volume overload (hypervolemia) which makes the heart work harder and can push the problem into an episode of congestive heart failure. I'd also see about getting an additional test run -- a BNP. This will give you an idea if there is any damage to the heart muscle and may help to guide decisions about fluids.

I would discuss the use of a steroid shot very carefully with your vet. I did a quick Google search and there's some instances of CHF that was induced by steroids. Some of this research is old but I think it still warrants a discussion of the pros and cons with your vet or the cardiologist. Steroids can have an effect on fluid retention.
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I did the same search Sienne and while this is scaring me, I don't know what else to do to give him some relief at this point. It will only be 1 single shot, I will not do any more. Suggestion was to do small amounts of fluids (50ml) maybe twice a week now. After repeat blood work next week, he may also be put on a very low dose of Lasix to counteract the fluids. I don't know what a BNP is. The results from the Echo are yesterday's condo. BP was normal.
 
Donna, this is for future reference. I started researching options for Doodles LAD/Asthma since he cannot have pred or the inhalers due to recurrent CHF and the declining HCM. It's about a cat with HCM/CHF/Asthma being treated with Atopica instead. I have not heard back from Doodles cardiologist but do plan on bringing it up at our next visit. Right now Doodles LAD is not chronic and I only have hydrocodone on hand as a cough suppressant if needed to avoid further lung damage.

I agree that you need to get his breathing under control and wish you all the best today. Here is the article I found in the Journal of Feline Medicine. I'm aware that Flame has RCM and no CHF at this time but it's still relevant IMO. Doubtful Flame's doctors will jump to this option but it's good info to pass along IMO.
 

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Donna and Flame said:
I'm not sure if she could get in touch with the cardiologist right now since it's Saturday
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I was just asking, because J.D.'s holistic vet scared me when she said she heard a gallop in J.D.'s heart. He was about 19 then. I was going back and forth about putting him on a steroid because of possible IBD at the time. So, eventually, I took him to a cardiologist to ask his opinion on giving him steroids. He said no gallop was heard, and his echo was fine, and he said it was okay for J.D. to have steroids (which I never did, and still wonder if I should have tried to this day).
Wishing you and Flame the Best Of Luck today, and keeping you both in my good thoughts. :bighug:
 
He's still at the vet. She gave the shot. They did a nebulizer treatment and said he did very well with it.... just hanging in his carrier with the vet & tech holding the mask in front of his face. He is in oxygen now and apparently snoozing (I just called to check), which is good to hear that he's relaxed. I hung out for a while, but then the office got really busy and she had to see other clients and she wanted to keep him on O2 for an hour or so and then check him again, so she told me to go home for a while and come back around 1:30 PM (EST)... that's in about an hour. The tech I spoke to said his breathing was better when she saw him in the back.
Everyone loves him there. The girls at the front desk kept running to the back and fawning over him, giving him little pets and gushing over how adorable and sweet he is... and giving me updates.

It has been crazy unseasonably warm here in NJ for Feb. 70 degrees today!! I've been sneezing and had a tickly, scratchy throat, so I'm thinking maybe this has had something to do with why his breathing got so bad too. I'm afraid to open any windows, although I'd love to.

Will update again later when I get him home. Thank you all for all the support!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
Prayers, prayers, and more prayers...I'm glad he's breathing better now!

I'm in NJ, too...I'm getting very spoiled by this weather!
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Hey, another Jersey girl!! :p:p:p I'm in Central NJ (Sayreville). Where are you? I am getting spoiled too, but afraid we're still gonna get hit with snow in March!

Thanks for the prayers Amy!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
In NJ here too. My colleagues keep complaining that they are getting sick from the changes in weather.
Sending healing vines and good breathing vines to Flame.
Can you do the nebulizer treatment at home?
 
Just throwing this out there...

These are being raved about around these parts. Seems like we have springtime about 3-4x's (cold/warm/cold/warm) every year. Right now everything is covered in yellow/green pollen. Humans are reporting great relief using these, but it may just be the latest fad.

https://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Rainmate-Freshener-Purifier-Aromatizer/dp/B00V58902U?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00V58902U
 
Donna and Flame said:
Hey, another Jersey girl!! :p:p:p I'm in Central NJ (Sayreville). Where are you? I am getting spoiled too, but afraid we're still gonna get hit with snow in March!

Thanks for the prayers Amy!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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I'm central, too! Pennington - tiny town in between Princeton and Trenton. Small world!! (You know when someone is REALLY from NJ when they recognize that there truly is a "central" Jersey!!)
 
You can create your own 'nebulizer tent' if he fights the inhaler so much. A friend did it successfully for many months. Cover a hard side carrier (even a box) with blankets, thread nebulizer hose in top part. When you put kitty in, also mostly cover the door then turn on nebulizer. Her kitty usually stayed in it for about 10 minutes for a treatment. Just thought I'd throw this out here for you to talk with your vet about...might work without so much stress....

HUGS and prayers!!!
 
Squeaky and KT (GA) said:
You can create your own 'nebulizer tent' if he fights the inhaler so much. A friend did it successfully for many months. Cover a hard side carrier (even a box) with blankets, thread nebulizer hose in top part. When you put kitty in, also mostly cover the door then turn on nebulizer. Her kitty usually stayed in it for about 10 minutes for a treatment. Just thought I'd throw this out here for you to talk with your vet about...might work without so much stress....

HUGS and prayers!!!
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That's a good idea!! thank you!! I spoke to my vet today about it. I know for humans they have these little capsules with the meds and saline in them - pre mixed, but she said what they do is mix their own because I guess the human dose has too much med for a cat. I asked her if she would write me a script for the meds and of course, she would, so I may try this.
 
He's home!! He is like a different cat. Breathing well, not struggling, up and about, talking and eating. He devoured a bowl of food when he came home and he was able to eat and drink without struggling to breathe. This is a relief to see. I hope we can keep him comfortable like this. What a blessing that would be!!
His +7 was 281, not bad for being at the vet all day.

Thank you everyone for being here with me the past few days and holding my hand and offering support and encouragement and wisdom. I don't know how I'd get thru this without you all!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
awesome news... come on Flame keep on breathing well little one... and good appy is always a good thing! :bighug::bighug::bighug:still sending prayers and vines
 
Glad your boy is back home and feeling better, sounds like they really looked after him at the office.
Sending more vines for easy breathing and hope he continues to feel good.
 
Good news about Flame feeling better!! I am so glad that you went to the vet. :bighug:

We are having 70 degrees here in PA today too and I have had a gagging tickle cough, so something is in the air for sure.
 
Here was Wendy's second nebulizer setup:

14519700_1072690256171911_5199350310305433998_n.jpg


If you're on facebook, you MAY be able to see this link: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47207188.26528.100002928417872&type=3&theater
 
BNP = brain natriuretic peptide. BNP is a hormone that is produced by the cardiac muscle. In my original post above (#9), I linked the info sheet from IDEXX that contains information about the test. There's a Snap version of the test that is pictured on the sheet. This is a test the vet can run in the office and you get either a negative or positive result (kinda like a pregnancy test) vs a blood test that's sent off to IDEXX where you get a numerical value. The test is relatively new for cats. BNP levels are checked routinely in humans with suspected or diagnosed heart disease.



 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
I'm central, too! Pennington - tiny town in between Princeton and Trenton. Small world!! (You know when someone is REALLY from NJ when they recognize that there truly is a "central" Jersey!!)
Click to expand...

I know exactly where Pennington is!! My cousin's live in Lawrenceville and my son went to TCNJ in Ewing. And yes, there IS A CENTRAL NJ!! :D
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
BNP = brain natriuretic peptide. BNP is a hormone that is produced by the cardiac muscle. In my original post above (#9), I linked the info sheet from IDEXX that contains information about the test. There's a Snap version of the test that is pictured on the sheet. This is a test the vet can run in the office and you get either a negative or positive result (kinda like a pregnancy test) vs a blood test that's sent off to IDEXX where you get a numerical value. The test is relatively new for cats. BNP levels are checked routinely in humans with suspected or diagnosed heart disease.
Click to expand...

GAH!! Sienne, I didn't even notice the link in your original post!! Sorry, I was a little preoccupied earlier. Going to take a look tomorrow with fresh eyes. thank you !!
 
{{{Donna}}}

I'm so happy to read that the vet was able to help Flame feel better. That is wonderful! I hope you are able to set up a nebulizer at home so you can nip it in the bud if he starts to get back again.

Sending vines for continued good breathing and good appy, and lots of :bighug:s.
 
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