2.24 Magnolia PMPS 103, +1.5 88 Decreased

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Sara & Magnolia

Sara & Magnolia

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Just woke up no WCR yet.

I will be giving her morning shot as I walk out the door today and I won't be home until PMPS. DH CAN test(!) but only until +2.5. I set her timed feeder to feed at +2, +4, +6, +8, +10.

She has been doing fantastic on this dose. I've shot numbers much lower than 91, but I've always been around to monitor. I can either lower her dose this morning or give her MC at +4 and +6 to make sure she doesn't drop too low. I can always count on her to eat up ALL of her fuds while I'm gone. Which option is better for her?

Any thoughts?

Yesterday's Condo

Yesterday's Recap
AMPS 123
+2 141
+5 90
PMPS 61
+1 70
+2 59
+3 53
+5 58
+11 91
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia +11 91 Shooting Advice Needed

She has been doing good at this dose. If this were my cat, i'd shoot it - especially since you have timed feeder etc. I would have DH test at 2.5 and if it looked like she was trending lower than anticipated then give the MC- or have him put mc in timer. If that still makes you a little anxious - just stick the MC in the 4 and possibly 6 hr preloaded. Yeah, didn't answer the question but just reshuffled your thoughts - but they both work :)
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia +11 91 Shooting Advice Needed

lol Joyce. Reshuffling is ok. I am really leaning toward shooting it, but I like to get a consensus. :smile:
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia +11 91 Shooting Advice Needed

I don't blame you - It is always reassuring. But at least DH can do a 2.5 -can get good reassurance from that number. It makes me alot less nervous now shooting lower numbers cause Tuscany feeds well, too and I have a years worth of data now. The question in my mind in your case isn't wether to shoot cuz I'd shoot - but wether u should put mc in for reassurance.
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia +11 91 Shooting Advice Needed

I agree with joyce...shoot low to stay low is the motto. Good that DH is around too...
and he can test? Wow...that's terrific!! Good luck..doing a great job!!! :-D
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia +11 91 Shooting Advice Needed

it's about +11.5 now, can u retest?

will DH be able to test at +1 as well?
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia +11 91 Shooting Advice Needed

looks like she has a good rise between +5 and +11. If the rise continues, I would shoot the normal dose.
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia +11 91 Shooting Advice Needed

DH can test at +1 too. I just got out of the shower, about 10 minutes until PMPS time...should I still retest?

Thanks everyone for your input. I think I'm going to test now, just in case there are any surprises...
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia +11 91 Shooting Advice Needed

My post just got zapped. I was in shower too getting ready for tbp and realize I had forgotten to say SHOOT - IF you have a rising number. If number is dropping may need the stall technique
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia +11 91 AMPS 58 Shooting Advice Needed

AMPS 58
Just when I think she's gonna zig...she zags!

So...stall? My friend is notoriously late...and she will understand having to leave a bit late...

Or a BCSD?
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia +11 91 AMPS 58 Shooting Advice Needed

I'd stall.

You shot a 61 last night. I do think that Magnolia is angling for a decrease.
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia +11 91 AMPS 58 Shooting Advice Needed

+.15min 55
I've been thinking a decrease is coming soon...but she hasn't gone below 40. Or even below 50...

She is really hungry and getting a little mad at me for poking her ear instead of feeding her...
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia +11 91 AMPS 58 Shooting Advice Needed

She goes low when she doesn't eat for a few hours...

She didn't finish her +9 breakfast, she only ate half of it. I know food will raise her, but will it be enough? And stick throughout the day?
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia AMPS 66

She was starving. I fed 3 parts LC and 1 part HC. I shot a skinny 4.75. DH will test at +1 and +2. We'll feed LC or HC depending on those tests...
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia AMPS 66

Sorry. I had to step away.

This sounds good. Remember to update your SS.
I think I might have left out the HC and testing at +1 to see where numbers were heading. Great shooting.
 
+1.5 61

I wouldn't have normally given the HC, but I'm so worried to leave her alone all day.

DH tested at +1.5 and got 61. He will test again at +2 and feed. Then he leaves for work and she's on her own until PMPS. The timer will feed at +4 +6 +8 +10. Should he load up ALL HC? Or just for the first 2? Or MC? I have ideas but always love to hear others.
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia AMPS 66, +1.5 61

+2 was 72. DH fed MC and left out MC for +4, HC for +6 and LC for the rest. My trip is taking much longer than expected. DH will be home just in time to test and shoot, hopefully. He has never shot before, but we practiced! I hope to be home at + 1. I'm thinking of a decrease tonight. I think she earned it with all these low flat cycles. Any opinions?
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia AMPS 66, +1.5 61

I'm not a good one for that type of dose question - haven't experience it myself yet! I am sure someone else will be around to give their thoughts. There is an adage around here about - shoot low to stay low but not sure how low that is. I am wondering if you saw a bit of rebound tonight from all the MC she got to eat today. Hope DH's first shot went well!
 
Re: 2.24 Magnolia AMPS 66, +1.5 61

I peeked at your SS and saw the PMPS of 103. Keep on surfin', Magnolia, this is BEAUTIFUL!
 
I just got home. What a day.

PMPS 103, +1.5 88

DH did a fantastic job of testing and shooting...even though her shot was 30 minutes late. Magnolia let me know how unhappy she was that I left her alone ALL DAY...and even had the audacity to send someone over to check on her while she was taking her evening siesta.

She just ate her midnight snack, I plan to stay awake for at least another hour, hopefully longer, to make sure she's surfing. I hope I made the right call on the decrease. If she loses regulation, I can always go back up. She seemed ready.
 
sara, just a suggestion...
take a look at alex's 2009 levemir spreadsheet (link in my signature) to see how we shoot low to stay low and how we work our way down the dosing scale.
 
Thanks Jill, I really do appreciate suggestions! As well as your help on my journey to understand the dance. Is this your very nice way of saying I may not have been exactly correct (aka wrong) to decrease .25 tonight without the clear under 40 number?

So, I am looking at the ss, and I have questions. First, is Lantus the same as Levimir? I mean, do they behave similarly in our kitties? Also, you were decreasing in sometimes in increments of .1 and other times .3...how can you tell the difference? Would I do the same with Magnolia being that she is on a higher dose? I went with the .25 decrease because of the higher dose.

I am getting the hang of the protocol, I guess it's the grey areas, the exceptions to the rules, where I get fuzzy...

The other reason for my decrease came from Magnolia's vet. We spoke tonight, I'll post the vet update tomorrow morning as I am down for the count tonight, but she wanted me decrease even lower in preparation for the dental next Tuesday. I felt ok with the .25 because she's been so low, so flat, for the past few days and it seemed to fit the protocol.
 
the reduction may have been premature. :-D

good questions! lantus and levemir are different insulins. the action of the two insulins is so similar they can be used the same way. that's why we have both lantus and levemir users in this group. as far as measuring accurately, initially i counted drops. i also used a magnifying glass and those cheap magnified reading glasses you can get in any drug store. what i call a 0.3u and what you call a 0.3u may be different. that's ok. all that's important is consistency. if you/i measure consistently... we're good to go.

Links to protocol guidelines:
Tight Regulation with Lantus or Levemir for Diabetic Cats
Dosing Protocol for Cats on Lantus/glargine or Levemir/detemir Using Daily Home Monitoring of Blood Glucose Concentrations to Adjust Insulin Dose

generally speaking, decreases are made in increments of .25 units. alex had been in remission for 2 years 10 months before needing a dental knocked her out of remission. it's a lot more difficult getting a kitty into remission a second time than it is the first time. i knew i had to be very aggressive if she had a chance to go OTJ again. when i began to attempt reductions, i was ultra conservative with her reductions because i know first hand a failed reduction can tack weeks (sometimes months) onto this journey. the 0.3u reductions... i was just feeling a little more confident at the moment. :-D

these are general guidelines for reductions which have been used successfully by many members of this group for the last couple of years:

--- if kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. if your kitty does not hold reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.

--- if an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose.

--- try to go from 0.25u to 0.1u before stopping insulin completely.

it's important to note, we are not vets. these are strictly guidelines which many laypersons have found to work well.
the protocols linked above have recently been revised. the suggested guidelines for reductions is a bit different than what i've written above.

hope that helps...
 
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