2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worried!

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tessielou

tessielou

Member Since 2010
Hi,
I haven't posted for awhile, but I increased Tessie's dose to 1.25 bid on 2/13. Her numbers have been sneaking back up into the 300s the past 10 days and I've noticed her drinking more the past couple days, and she's less playful. Today, she is not eating, and that's a huge red flag, cause she is a hoover kitty. I was gone most of the afternoon and got home at 6pm and tested her and got this 345, which is really high for her! And she had hardly touched her noon or 4pm meal (in automatic feeder). What does anyone think could be going on? Could it be DKA? I did a ketone test yesterday and it was negative.

Help please!
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

hi there

couple of questions, did she eat this morning? at her AMPS time?
is she still on DM food?
how's the litter box? poop look ok?
good that you checked for ketones.
is this just for today as you got home?
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

I would get another ketone test, just to be sure. I have gone as far as to put the litter box in the middle of the living room, just to be sure I saw J.D. when he peed, to get a test.
Try opening a can of human tuna and seeing if she'd be interested in the juice. Then maybe pour some on her food, to see if she'll eat that.
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

FWIW, Gabby is a hoover kitty and she hated DM. You might want to see if it's the food. If there's a store close by, pick up a couple of cans of Fancy Feast Classic variety, or some other variety of food different than her usual and see if she'll eat that. Or try anything she likes -- chicken breast, your dinner, etc.

Get another ketone test. That will help to ease your mind. Are all litter box activities normal? Is Tessie Lou's behavior normal? Does she go "off" her food if she's got a hairball brewing? Your profile noted that Tessie Lou is prone to UTIs -- how is her appetite if she's got a UTI?
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

Hi Looks like most of the questions have been asked and I don't have anymore to add except I hope that Tessie Lou starts to feel better soon.
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

Hi,

When Whiskers woudn't eat the vet suggested, grain free meat based (chicken, turkey) baby food. Warm it up a little. And it worked she ate it.
When was the last time she ate? Are you still giving insulin? If she's not eating I don't think we are supposed to give insuling, maybe someone with more experiance can address that issue. Have you talked to your vet? Can you call them for advise?

I hope she is feeling better soon cat_pet_icon .
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

Thanks everyone, I'll try to answer all the questions:
She did not eat normally this morning before her shot - only 1 oz versus usual 2oz. She ate the 1oz of NV raw and left the DM, and "buried" the evidence with her placement that is under the dish!
I left at noon, and left her 2oz for her 12:30pm meal, and 2oz for her 4:30pm meal. When I got home at 6pm, she had barely touched any of it (DM and some cooked chicken breast). She was animated and vocal. I tested her and it was 345--very high for her this time of day. She ate 1/2 oz of chicken for meal out of my hand.
Litter box is A-ok. She has been drinking a bit more the past few days though. Her poop looks fine, except it is a bit lighter in color since I started giving a few ounces of NV raw a day (I started this on Mon.)
I do refrigerate the Lantus; however, I am on Day 40 of a pen. Could it be going bad? Her numbers were staying nicely in the 200s for the most part a few weeks ago, then we decided to up the dose to 1.25 on 2/13 and ever since it seems like the numbers have been creeping back up into the 300s both AMPS and PMPS.

The vet just called me back. She said stop the NV raw and chewed me out for introducing another factor into the equation. :oops: She wants me to stay 100% DM for next 2 weeks and start a new Lantus pen tonight. Wants me to bring her in if still not eating tomorrow.

What are you supposed to do to "head off" DKA? I'm terrified of it from all I've read about it here on LL.
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

Sienne and Gabby said:
FWIW, Gabby is a hoover kitty and she hated DM. You might want to see if it's the food. If there's a store close by, pick up a couple of cans of Fancy Feast Classic variety, or some other variety of food different than her usual and see if she'll eat that. Or try anything she likes -- chicken breast, your dinner, etc.

Get another ketone test. That will help to ease your mind. Are all litter box activities normal? Is Tessie Lou's behavior normal? Does she go "off" her food if she's got a hairball brewing? Your profile noted that Tessie Lou is prone to UTIs -- how is her appetite if she's got a UTI?
Click to expand...

Hi Sienne, sorry I missed a couple of your questions in the last post. I will try to get another ketone test as soon as she pees again. She has calmed down since she ate the 1/2 oz chicken breast out of my hand and is sleeping beside me now. She loves FF Classic, but it gives her terrible gas and poop! She was really liking the Nature's Variety Raw until today. I tried to give her some at 6pm, after testing her, and she "buried" it with her placemat. I swear they know what NOT to eat when something's wrong.
Tess has never, in the two years I've had her, had a hairball, or even made the sound of coughing up a hairball (I know the signs--have had many many hairball cats in the past). So that's a blessing at least. She is prone to UTIs, but as far as I can remember, she still ate even when she had them. This not eating today is VERY abnormal for her. That's why I'm so freaked out.

Karrie, she has been eating DM since she was diagnosed on 11/27/11. She has been "ok" with it, although likes FF better. She is definitely telling me something, though, I agree! They are sooooo smart!
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

She was 318 at +11, and she is eating some DM right now! Fingers crossed...
I can't wait to shoot her with the new pen in 1/2 hour and see what happens. Still hasn't peed though...
What are you supposed to do if the strip is NOT negative? Get to the vets asap, or give food?
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

just stopping in to say hope she feels better soon...and bumping your post up to the top...
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

I agree with the others, get a ketone test as soon as you can and make sure she eats. If she has positive ketones, you can post for advice. If it is more than trace, the advice will be to call the vet.

I'm glad you have new insulin.

FWIW, it's not uncommon for cats to suddenly turn their backs on DM. Sometimes they'll eat it for a while and then just stop. The best food is whatever she'll eat (preferably low carb wet or raw, of course!).

Can you start getting before bed tests every night? It looks like Tessie Lou could probably use a dose increase, but without any night checks it's hard to be sure. Lots of cats have more action at night than during the day, so it's important to be sure you're not missing that half of the picture.
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

Feel better Tessie Lou and eat for your mama. :O)
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

Re. Ketones: If there's a trace level of ketones, you just need to get as much water as possible into Tess' diet and keep a close eye on ketone levels and behavior. If the level is above trace, then you need to get to the vet/ER immediately.

The manufacturer recommends that any unused Lantus be discarded after 28 days. 40 days may be too long although many people are able to get longer use from their insulin. I do think you need more tests during the PM cycle. It's hard to extrapolate what's going on without the PM data. (I don't know if you work evenings. If you do work then, we'll manage.) I also think you're holding on to a dose for too long. The protocol suggests not holding a dose for more than 5 days if nadirs are primarily 200 or below and only 3 days if most nadirs are above 300
Tight Regulation Protocol sticky said:
"General" Guidelines:
* Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 cycles).

* Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).

* Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.


Increasing the dose...

* Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose.

* After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.

* After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.
Click to expand...

Gabby did completely refuse DM after eating it for a while. I brought 2 cases of it back to the vet. If your vet is being insistent, share the facts. What I told my vet was that I could buy a far better quality cat food (i.e., human grade food vs. animal by-products) that was lower in carbs, contained no grain or gluten and was cheaper. My vet stopped pushing the Rx food once she realized I understood what was nutritionally important. (Wellness chicken or turkey is 4% carb and is human grade. DM is animal by-products and 7% carb.) It's more important that a cat eat than not eat a prescription food. Also, Gabby refused Nature's Variety. I ended up using another commercially prepared raw food that I thought was far better quality (no hunks of bone or gristle) and I finally was making up raw myself. It turned out she would eat Wellness and her numbers were the same.

Another possiblity may be that Tess' system is adjusting to the raw. It can give them an upset tummy at first.
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

Sienne and Gabby said:
Re. Ketones: If there's a trace level of ketones, you just need to get as much water as possible into Tess' diet and keep a close eye on ketone levels and behavior. If the level is above trace, then you need to get to the vet/ER immediately.
Click to expand...

Ok, good to know. If there is a trace level, I will post for more advice.

Sienne and Gabby said:
I do think you need more tests during the PM cycle. It's hard to extrapolate what's going on without the PM data. (I don't know if you work evenings. If you do work then, we'll manage.) I also think you're holding on to a dose for too long. The protocol suggests not holding a dose for more than 5 days if nadirs are primarily 200 or below and only 3 days if most nadirs are above 300
Click to expand...

Agreed. I just did a PM +3.5 and it was 239. I will plan to get another one at +7 and +10.
I agree on the dose holding, too. I have had her on this dose for 10 days, so it's time for an increase (unless this new pen makes a big difference).

Sienne and Gabby said:
Gabby did completely refuse DM after eating it for a while. I brought 2 cases of it back to the vet. If your vet is being insistent, share the facts. What I told my vet was that I could buy a far better quality cat food (i.e., human grade food vs. animal by-products) that was lower in carbs, contained no grain or gluten and was cheaper. My vet stopped pushing the Rx food once she realized I understood what was nutritionally important. (Wellness chicken or turkey is 4% carb and is human grade. DM is animal by-products and 7% carb.) It's more important that a cat eat than not eat a prescription food. Also, Gabby refused Nature's Variety. I ended up using another commercially prepared raw food that I thought was far better quality (no hunks of bone or gristle) and I finally was making up raw myself. It turned out she would eat Wellness and her numbers were the same.
Click to expand...

That is so interesting...I do think Tessie is having gastric distress. She doesn't want me to rub her tummy tonight like she usually does. And, you mentioned hairballs? She has never had one, but guess what? A few minutes ago, she actually coughed a few times! That's also a first for her. What's causing that, I wonder?
I think she is trying to tell me (by burying it) that the food is not agreeing with her, although I don't know if it's the DM or the raw, or both. I promised the vet tonight I would stay with the DM for 2 weeks or until and if Tessie refuses it. She ate it all at her evening meal, so...I guess I'll see what happens in the morning. If she refuses it, I'll give her cooked chicken and go get some Wellness. I agree on the poor ingredients of DM--and I read that they source the meat outside the U.S. (read China), which I don't like. I also don't like the bone and gristle in NV, and I also just read in Dr. Hodgkins book that you shouldn't give them any canned food with carrot, apple, or other fruit. Well, NV has all those things. :cry: This is so frustrating to try to figure out! I hate seeing her in discomfort like this, on top of higher numbers making her not feel well.

Well, I guess this is that marathon you all refer to, right? I can't believe Tessie and I have been doing this for almost 3 months already. :YMSIGH:

Thanks for all the insights. As always, it is much appreciated. I'll start a new post in the morning...
Night all,
Sandy and Tessie Lou
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

Sandy & Tessie Lou said:
I also just read in Dr. Hodgkins book that you shouldn't give them any canned food with carrot, apple, or other fruit.
Click to expand...

I'm not a big fan of Dr. Hodgkins approach. Her position is to never, ever give anything HC. I see that as a problem is your cat has a BG of 29. (And yes, Gabby has done that.) I give HC to raise her numbers and would encourage you to do the same. If you've not seen her website, take a look at the site on feline nutrition authored by Lisa Pierson, DVM. I think she takes a much more reasonable stance with regard to commercially prepared foods that contain things other than grain:
Dr. Lisa said:
A good example of the above issue is a food like canned Wellness. At first glance, this food may be dismissed as inappropriate for a carnivore because it contains several high carbohydrate ingredients in the form of fruits and vegetables. However, the low carbohydrate level (3-5%) tells us that the amount of fruits and vegetables is very low. (Carbohydrates come from grains, fruits, and vegetables but grains are the biggest contributor.)
Click to expand...
Wellness turkey and chicken are 4% carb. There can't be much contribution from much other than muscle meat to the carb level. Further, I was feeding Gabby homemade raw. I ran out of the pre-mix that I was using and started feeding Wellness while I was waiting for the shipment. There was absolutely no change in Gabby's numbers on Wellness. In fact, some cats seem to have better numbers if there's a small amount of carb in their diet.
 
Re: 2/23 Tessie Lou AMPS 282, +9 is 345 Won't eat--I'm worri

Hi Sienne,
Sorry, I just realized that you meant you had posted another time on this condo this am. I had heard something about Dr. Hodgkins' beliefs about carbs. Too radical for me. There's no way I wouldn't give HC to Tessie Lou if she dropped really low. I have read Dr. Lisa's website, and it sounds more reasonable to me, too.

How long has Gabby been on Wellness?
 
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