2/23 Jersey PMPS 135/123 - Skipping Shot Tonight

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Shelly & Jersey (GA)

Shelly & Jersey (GA)

Member Since 2014
Hi all,

I've revised my original post (included below) to ask my question about tonight's shot. (I hope that's the right way to do this). We have a low PMPS tonight of 135. Jersey is due for her shot in about 10 minutes. What do we do? Do we stall 20-30 minutes and re-test, or do we bypass tonight's shot altogether?

Thanks,
Shelly


Good morning!

We had a rough day yesterday (rough week, actually) - http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=114239. We started all over again this morning with .10 unit.

I'm still a newbie, so I don't know if the numbers we're getting are on track with what typically occurs with Lantus. From what I've read, it seems like Jersey is a bit ahead of the standard curve - dropping earlier than most kitties. ECID, right? :razz:

AMPS - 382; .10 unit
+2 - 238
+4 - 193
+5 - 159

Wishing you all a wonderful day!
Shelly
 
Re: 2/23 Jersey and Newbie AMPS 382, +2-238, +4-193, +5-159

Hi Shelly!

Good posting over here. :-D There are a lot of smarty pants lantus and levemir folks over here to help.

Jersey is a cutie! :-D

Linda
 
Re: 2/23 Jersey and Newbie AMPS 382, +2-238, +4-193, +5-159

good morning!

right now the low point so far today is +5 - many cats nadir between +5-+6, but some nadir as early as +3. Punkin's usual nadir was around +5.5, but it can change even from one cycle to the next.

for now, the Lantus is settling in to Jersey's body. It typically takes a few days to see what a dose will do. with Jersey having been on it already, and just having skipped last night's shot, we would ordinarily say to give this dose about 6 cycles (or shots) to see what happens. unless you see a number under 50, you'll want to hold the dose at the 0.1u. try to keep other factors consistent - time of shots 12 hrs apart, food given at roughly the same volume and time in the cycles as much as possible.

happy sunday!
 
Re: 2/23 Jersey and Newbie AMPS 382, +2-238, +4-193, +5-159

Nice slide for Jersey today. Considering how little insulin you're giving, that's quite a drop.

I'm glad you're here in LL. You'll get a lot of help and support here. Have a great day!
 
Re: 2/23 Jersey and Newbie AMPS 382, +2-238, +4-193, +5-159

Just to add to what Julie said, some cats will nadir even later. Champ is one of those and will nadir at +7 or later at times. One thing our cats aren't is predictable. :? I've never seen someone have it so together as early as you concerning their signature block. I mean, you have your condo from yesterday linked, your SS set up, a profile done, and yesterday's values listed in your first post of the day (something I've always been too lazy to do, even three years into this). Well done!!! :thumbup
 
Re: 2/23 Jersey and Newbie AMPS 382, +2-238, +4-193, +5-159

Looking good, Jersey! Amazing what a drop can do... Our Zener is predictably unpredictable, he could do anything. Occasionally, he'll even have a normal Lantus cycle, just to mess with our heads. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Liz
 
Re: 2/23 Jersey AMPS-382, +2-238, +4-193, +5-159, +8-177

Anne, Tricia, and Linda ~ Thanks for your warm welcome!

Patty ~ I appreciate your compliment. I may not know much about insulin and dosing, but I do pride myself on organization. It's good to know that I at least have that part right! :lol: (I did add the latest number to my subject line. I hope I did that correctly!)

Julie ~ I will definitely hold the dose all week unless we hit a low number. A timed feeder is on its way, which will make me feel a bit better about shooting before we leave for work. I have been leaving food out, but I have a civie who is a Hoover. I'm not sure how long the food is actually lasting before it's gobbled up. The timed feeder will also help us be more consistent with feeding times. (I would really like to feed four times a day rather than the three we're currently at.)
 
Re: 2/23 Jersey AMPS-382, +2-238, +4-193, +5-159, +8-177

I agree with what Julie suggested. As a general "rule," any time you skip a shot, give a fur shot, etc., the cycle count starts over. With Lantus, when you're counting cycles, it's always consecutive cycles at a give dose. So, providing that Jersey cooperates, you'll want to hold this dose for 3 - 5 days depending on where the nadirs are falling. The description of when to change the dose is in the Tight Regulation Protocol sticky.

Another means of leaving food out is to make "catsickles". You mix low carb food with enough water to make it soupy and then freeze in an ice cube tray or some other container. You can then leave some cubes out. (FWIW, Gabby will lick the frozen food. She's a hoover-kitty, as well.)
 
Re: Jersey Low(ish) PMPS - Dosing Guidance Needed

Thanks for the advice, Sienne. I'm hoping the timed feeder will arrive in the next couple of days. In the meantime, I'll work on some catsickles!
 
Re: Jersey Low(ish) PMPS - Dosing Guidance Needed

yikes - i'm not sure when you changed your subject line.

when you have anything new come up, always add a "reply" to your own post to bump it to the top. We edit the subject line of the first post of the day, but not the post itself. i know it's kinda confusing. you have to add a reply for people to see your question.

are you still waiting for help on the pmps or have you already shot?
 
Re: Jersey Low(ish) PMPS - Dosing Guidance Needed

you have a couple of choices - 4, actually. i'll start by saying that i think you have enough data to go ahead and shoot this number, then get a +1 and +2 to see where the numbers are going.


However, if it makes you nervous or you won't be around to monitor, you have 3 other choices:
- stall and recheck in about 15 minutes to see if the number is rising, and the moment it passes 150, go ahead and shoot the 0.1u dose. when you stall you don't feed. you're looking for the number to rise on its own without carbs.

- give a token dose - in your case that would be the "breath" of insulin that i mentioned to you yesterday.

- skip the shot.

i'm assuming if you shoot, you have plenty of strips (at least 20) and karo or high carb food or honey to bring jersey up if needed.

what do you feel most comfy doing? can i answer any questions?
 
Re: Jersey Low(ish) PMPS - Dosing Guidance Needed

Thanks so much for your help, Julie. We re-tested 25 minutes later, and her bg was 123. We've now fed her; she was a starvin' kitty! We decided to bypass her shot tonight (and will start counting cycles all over again in the morning). I've never shot below 200, so it just freaks me out too much right now - especially since our dosing technique has been less than ideal this past week. nailbite_smile At some point I'll get brave enough to shoot low.

Thanks for the guidance on how to change post titles, etc. I'll be sure to follow that protocol from now on!

Shelly
 
Re: Jersey Low(ish) PMPS - Dosing Guidance Needed

i just don't want your questions to get lost! you can also put a "post icon" on your post with a ?. The post icon has to be with the first subject line also - they are right above it.

then you add your reply with your comment or question to bump up your thread.

experienced people will shoot in the 50's even - so you've got a shootable number, but i totally understand wanting to wait. you're gathering data and learning right now.

i want to encourage you, however, that i would say with jersey needing such a small amount of insulin, she's a good candidate for her pancreas to heal and for going off of insulin. the ironic thing is that shooting a lower number will bring about a flatter cycle over all. i know i thought that if i shot a 300 and punkin dropped to 100, that's a 200 pt drop. so if i shoot a 150, my little buddy will be dead.

but it doesn't work that way.

Take a look at this spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aj3uT59Jr1qSdHAzZGdodHR1NVFwb1FHR0hOOTRwQ3c&outpu and you'll see what i mean. shooting low can turn a cycle almost into a flat line. keeping a cat under 120 is what lets their pancreas heal and begin working again.

you'll have another opportunity to shoot low. just make sure you do it when you'll be around to monitor. whenever someone shoots a newly-low-to-them, we always ask them to get a +1 and a +2 to make sure kitty doesn't dive!
 
Liz ~ thanks for your encouragement. I definitely needed it!

Julie ~ I know exactly what you mean. I've tried explaining to my husband that we're shooting for where she's headed, not where she's at right now. My own "scaredy cat-ness," along with his reluctance to shoot, is probably a bad combination. I'm confident we can get Jersey off insulin. We simply have to start getting every dose in her and shooting low at the right times. If we could have done that from the beginning, I truly believe she could have already been in remission by now. I'm just hoping we're not too late. Fingers crossed......Thanks for the time you spent responding to me yesterday, Julie. I sincerely appreciate it!
 
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