2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64, PMPS = 447

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Jen&Eddie

Jen&Eddie

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Yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=114241

Eddie had an interesting 18 hour cycle yesterday. While it makes predicting what he'll do difficult, and it's not exactly convenient to shoot on a schedule like that, the upside is that Eddie spent at least 12 hours below renal threshold, had a lovely nadir that stretched out over several hours, and was in "normal" numbers for at least six hours. That's a good thing. :smile: After thinking over what Carl said about random absorption, I think I'm going to scale back just a smidge on my scale for pre-shots in the 350+ range, but keep the rest of my scale for now, since Eddie is getting good numbers on that scale, even if we are getting some wonky duration. I'm thinking that my scale should really only be adjusted down if the numbers go too low. I do welcome further input on this topic of wonky duration.

Today

AMPS = 345 (2.4u)
+4.5 = 101
+5 = 72
+5.5 = 64
+6 = 71
+6.5 = 68
+7 = 87
+8 = 108
+10 = 306 :shock:
PMPS = 447 :o
+2 = 298
+4 = 251
+6 = 204

So at +5, things are getting a little exciting. Starting to feed to slow the curve a smidge. Eddie rarely has a nadir before +6 or +7, and it's usually later. I'm home to monitor closely today (between loads of laundry).
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

As long as you steer past his usual nadir, you're good to go. Actually really good numbers, love to see 60's as long as they don't drop to below 50. As time goes on, you'll reduce the numbers on your 'steering' chart too, just like your 'no shoot' number. I don't steer unless Lucian is hitting about 50, just because I know from the past, it isn't necessary for him. But that takes time and data. And they can always throw you a curve ball!

The longer they are in non-diabetic numbers, the more they heal and the better chance you have of them OTJ or at least on minimal insulin.
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

Yeah, I'm hoping we can surf today and not bounce to the moon at PMPS. :smile:
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

Those bounces....... :YMSIGH: I hate 'em! :evil:

Keep in mind too, that steering can sometimes go against you, if he's trying to earn a reduction. If you find yourself have to steer often or he's bouncing because he went low when you weren't home to test, you may need to reduce slightly. Not allowing him to ever get to 50 can come back to bite you in the a$$. Understand?
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

nckitties3 said:
Not allowing him to ever get to 50 can come back to bite you in the a$$. Understand?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I do. I've had a few times when we were approaching 50 and I intentionally steered to keep him from going lower. I mean, is it wise to intentionally let a cat go below 50 for purposes of "earning" a reduction?
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

I'd not say it's wise, could be risky.

I have reduced Lucian on a 52, knowing if I didn't steer, he'd go lower. You know your cat.

What I mean is that sometimes he may need a reduction. You'll know that if it becomes common to have to steer his numbers, see what I mean? If it's rare, then it's normal. It's not normal to be steering several times a week. It happens to most cats occasionally I think. But over the last year+, I've seen noobs steer every time the poor cat hits 80. You really need to see what the insulin is doing and don't jump at steering. I'm just trying to find a mid point, to improve data and still keep the cat safe.

I do understand how scary lower numbers can be, I freaked the first time Lucian went below 100! It takes time and knowing YOUR cat.
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

That the tough part with Eddie right now. He can be a little unpredictable as to when he's going to have his nadir. I usually like to see a +4 and that generally tells me if he's dropping faster than I'd like. He can drop so darn fast at times (like 40 points in less than an hour - like today between +4.5 and +5.5 - 101 to 64), so seeing even 60 makes keep an eye on him. I do try to go by "gut" a little bit if a reduction is warranted when I steer with food to keep him from going below 50.

We'll see where he's at at PMPS, but I'm leaning maybe towards reduction for this part of the scale again - thoughts? This AMPS was at the very top range of the my scale of 250-350 = 2.4u. And that dropped him to 64 at nadir. On the other hand, I'm thinking about what Carl posted about "carryover" - meaning that there "might" be a bit of depot effect with ProZinc even though it's thought of as an "in-and-out insulin". So, I suppose it's possible that today's dose got a little extra "oomph" from yesterday's dose.
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

Since I know nothing about sliding scale, here's my thought. Maybe you could change it to 200-250, 250-300, 300-350, etc. You got a 100 point difference, maybe it needs fine tuning.

Just a thought, like I said, I know nothing about sliding scale.
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

+8 = 108

Come on Eddie, let's surf! Cowabunga! (Thanks Melissa!)

nckitties3 said:
Since I know nothing about sliding scale, here's my thought. Maybe you could change it to 200-250, 250-300, 300-350, etc. You got a 100 point difference, maybe it needs fine tuning.
Click to expand...

I'm studying right now, trying to figure out where to tweak. I'd almost have to adjust the whole scale downward to split it out further, or shoot 2.2 for anything from a rising 160+ up to 300. Seems like a huge range. I think about 1/2 of the equation is that normally, he's still on the rise for the two hours or so until onset, but due to our skipped shot for the PM last night that could be throwing a wrench into things.

The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm thinking to hold my current scale and see if things need to be tweaked after a more "normal" cycle. I have tonight at least to watch closely! ;-)
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

Agreed. I'd definitely wait for a 'normal' cycle to tweak, not to be confused with 'twirk' which you could probably do at any time, if you're so inclined. :lol:
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

nckitties3 said:
not to be confused with 'twirk' which you could probably do at any time, if you're so inclined. :lol:
Click to expand...

haha_smiley

I'll say that I'm in the generation that I should be familiar with that term. However, until recently, I thought it had something to do with being nerdy? :smile:
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

Hey Jenn.

Eddie has given you an interesting weekend! I think I would tweak the scale downward also. There is debate whether long cycles are because a dose reduction is needed or if they happen for different reasons which you can't control. Regardless, since the work week is starting, I think I'd tweak it down.

I wonder about 2.4 for 350-380 and 2.6 for 380+? It seems like he needs a little less just at those higher numbers?
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Hey Jenn.

Eddie has given you an interesting weekend! I think I would tweak the scale downward also. There is debate whether long cycles are because a dose reduction is needed or if they happen for different reasons which you can't control. Regardless, since the work week is starting, I think I'd tweak it down.

I wonder about 2.4 for 350-380 and 2.6 for 380+? It seems like he needs a little less just at those higher numbers?
Click to expand...

Hi Sue! Welcome back!

So, here's where I'm scratching my head confused_cat - I've been having great results shooting a rising high blue with a 2.2u. My scale has been 2.2u for roughly 170-250, although I did shoot a 2.0 and got a little shorter cycle once. What do I shoot for anything between 250 and 350 if I lower the range for 2.4 to the 350+ range? I will say, since Eddie's been surfing the blue numbers the last several cycles, I haven't even seen a pre-shot in the 250 range lately. Maybe just 250+ shoot 2.4?
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64

Well, maybe wait to see if you get a long cycle or a shootable pmps today? That should help us with that 350 range and then we can just subtract a smidge for the range below if needed ……..
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64, +10 = 306

+10 = 306

Yikes! That's a heck of a bounce. Will see where he's at in about an hour and a half for PMPS.
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64, +10 = 306

Yes, that is!

Interesting. He almost seems to follow the pattern of the pancreas helping out, but I haven't seen that happening until the doses are in much lower ranges…….

When the pancreas wakes up, in some cats, it means longer cycles because the pancreas kicks in after the insulin is wearing off and extends the cycle. Until it "gets tired" and stops helping out, and then the cat is up again. Sometimes fast.

The frustrating part of this is that it could also just be that he has been in some lower numbers for a while and has decided to bounce.

Regardless, pmps should be interesting….
 
Re: 2/23 Eddie AMPS 345, +5.5 = 64, +10 = 306

Gah! It's been a while since he bounced that bad before the end of his cycle. I'm curious to see if he'll by chance "clear" that and go down a smidge by PMPS. I just hope he doesn't have a high flat cycle this PM. We haven't had one of those in a while.
 
PMPS = 447 :(

Thinking 2.6u. Slightly less than the 2.8 on a 390 pre-shot that had a lovely nadir but an 18-hour cycle yesterday.

Fingers crossed he comes off the ceiling.
 
Tell Eddie to quit reading Lucian's condo, just because Lucian does it, doesn't mean he should! If your other kitty friends jumped off the cliff, would you do it too? :lol: Remember that from when we were kids? :lol: I sound just like my mother, egads!
 
nckitties3 said:
Tell Eddie to quit reading Lucian's condo, just because Lucian does it, doesn't mean he should! If your other kitty friends jumped off the cliff, would you do it too? :lol: Remember that from when we were kids? :lol: I sound just like my mother, egads!
Click to expand...

I know right?! ohmygod_smile I just had a funny image in my mind of a bunch of kitties jumping on a trampoline! We haven't had a high-flat cycle higher than the mid-200's for at least several weeks (anti-jinx), so hopefully Eddie will come down.
 
We need that guy from the Price is Right to tell all our kitties to "Come on dowwwnnn!"

Perhaps while blaring the theme song...
 
Melissa and P said:
We need that guy from the Price is Right to tell all our kitties to "Come on dowwwnnn!"

Perhaps while blaring the theme song...
Click to expand...

I sometimes hum the Jeopardy theme song in my head when trying to figure out what dose to shoot! :smile:
 
haha_smiley

I actually had to look up the Price is Right theme song when I was typing that reply because I couldn't get the Jeopardy theme song out of my head. lol
 
That's funny! I've often gotten the jeopardy song in my head while pinching Lucian's ear for 30 seconds after the test. :lol:
 
+2 = 298

Phew! Clearing out of the reds at least, and it's only 2 points less than 300, but it's reassuring to see a yellow. Now, a bit less dramatic of a curve would be just fine for tonight.

Question: Regarding kitties on their way to OTJ, we see the term "sputtering pancreas" come up when there are certain patterns that suggest that BG levels remain lower than expected for longer than expected. So, I'm wondering if it's really the pancreas "waking up", and kicking out more insulin, or whether the cells are using insulin more efficiently and therefore able to utilize circulating glucose more effectively (i.e., overcoming glucose toxicity)? Maybe both?
 
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