2/22 Lucy PMPS=288

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mariko

mariko

Member Since 2011
Good morning,

Yesterday's condo

Yesterday
AMPS=140 (s1u); +1=140; +2=128; +8=157
PMPS=191 (s1u); +2.25=200; +4.25=202; +6.5=185; +8=191

Today
AMBG=200 (skip, fasting for b/w); +16=175; +20=211
PMPS=288 (s1u); +1=279

Well so much for the mini dosecrease.
It looked good for a couple of cycles, and then she's been mostly in yellow.

Lucy is getting no shot this morning because she's fasting for b/w today.
I'm getting b/w done for both Lucy and Ginger, mainly for kidney values, but I think I'll do the regular big one, both biochemistry and hematology, plus urine.
Lucy will have cobalamin added, which requires fasting.
I'm also going to ask them to check their blood pressure.
And of course on the day she can't eat, Lucy wants her breakfast. :sad:

I'll probably get the results tomorrow, except cobalamin.
Whatever the results turn out to be, I'll stay calm and do my best to help them be better.
And PM Marje and ask her to please take a look at their kidney values. :razz:

OT: I was checking to see if the lab ss is up to date (it wasn't, in progress), and realized that Lucy's profile was sort of broken.
It used to look fine, but the pictures weren't showing properly anymore. I spent hours trying to fix it but it didn't work, so I ended up "sharing" the profile instead of "publishing" it.
I hope you can see it fine now
 
Re: 2/22 AMBG=200 // FASTING FOR B/W

fasting is hard to watch. Hope it's time to go to the vet already.


I could see the profile fine.... but page 2 was blank so maybe you added a page and didn't mean to.
 
Re: 2/22 AMBG=200 // FASTING FOR B/W

Sending good vetty and BW vines for your girls!! You and I can stay calm together tomorrow...Trix's results will be back then, too.

Keep us posted!!!
 
Re: 2/22 AMBG=200 // FASTING FOR B/W

I could see the profile fine! Love the pictures :-D Lucy and Ginger are beauties!

Good vetty vines being sent - Hope Lucy is just as hungry when she gets back home~
 
Re: 2/22 AMBG=200 // FASTING FOR B/W

I hope the BW comes back better than ever. I know it's hard to fast. Poor kittys.

I can see your profile fine and love looking at the beautiful pictures again :)

I like the way you have your labs with the latest first.

Lucy, you'll get to eat soon. Can you take her a treat or some food so she can eat the second it's done? I didn't think J.D. would eat during a vet visit, but I took treats with me one day and he did, right on the exam table. And last time, the vet threw some of her treats in front of J.D. during a BP test and that occupied him and he ate them right up. They always like to surprise us.

Sending good vet visit vines for your two.
 
Re: 2/22 AMBG=200 // FASTING FOR B/W

Thank you, Rhiannon and Amy.

The 2nd page of the profile should have 9 pics and a little bit about Ginger.
Can you not see the additional pics of Lucy & Ginger?
I'd like to show off my beautiful girls.......

Off to the vet now.
 
Re: 2/22 AMBG=200 // FASTING FOR B/W

Thank you, Dyana!
I'll take a small can with me!
 
Re: 2/22 AMBG=200 // FASTING FOR B/W

I can see the extra pictures, but they are on the third page and the second page is blank. Beautiful pictures of beautiful girls!!
 
Re: 2/22 AMBG=200 // FASTING FOR B/W

What?? No fuds?? Lucy...how can your mamabean do that to you?? You'll have to come to my house...we got lots of really good fuds and I'll teach you the "don't you love me anymore mommy?" look! I've been told I'm great at it! ~ China

Hope the bloodwork looks good and there's nothing new you have to "deal with" Mariko!

Sending lots of good vetty vines!
 
Re: 2/22 AMBG=200 // FASTING FOR B/W

I'm sending good vetty vines! It's hard when they want to eat and you have to fast them :sad: . I hope all goes well and it's done quickly:)

I can see pictures too, on page 3, but a blank page 2. They are both such beauties :-D
 
Re: 2/22 AMBG=200 // Fasting for B/W & Some Qs

Thank you, everyone, for the good vetty vines.
We are back and Lucy is fed.

Ginger was so scared and Lucy was so grumpy.
They both got blood and urine collected for complete senior panel, plus cobalamin for Lucy.

The blood pressure results:
Lucy: 160 / 125 <--- I think this is good.
Ginger: 180 / 135 <--- I think this is little high, but she was very scared and nervous. We are going to see what her kidney values are going to be.

:?: :?: :?: The bad news is, Lucy's teeth looked worse.
There is this one tooth that has been looking angry, and it looked worse.
The last time we talked about dental, the vet said at that time, risk of complication by putting her under anesthesia was larger than the risk of not doing dental.
It's probably still the same now, but she is probably feeling some pain........
I'll decide after the b/w results come back, but I don't know how I can make a decision whether to do the dental or not.
What do you think??? Any input / suggestion will be very much appreciated.

:?: :?: :?: I got all meds I wanted re-filled, but I didn't get a prescription for ondansetron.
I asked the vet, and she said they don't usually use ondansetron for nausea, so she didn't know how effective, but she quickly checked their meds book while I was there.
The book was kind of like a drug dictionary for vet, and it said something that made her think the use of ondansetron for cats might not be safe, or not proven effective at least, and she said that was what she remembered she had learnt too.
She said that the info in the book might be outdated, and wanted to look into it further before she decides if she will give me this prescription or not.
So, if you know of some material/article that I can show to her, please let me know.

I am already worried, even before I hear the b/w results, because of the dental issue.
I don't want her to be in pain if she is in pain. But I know it's not a terrible pain.
I don't see it's bothering her in her day-to-day life. But if it's bothering her, I want to help her.
Tears started welling up in my eyes just by asking the vet about the chance that she won't wake up.
She said that chance is very very slim, but she said some cats, especially old cats, never recover to be their old self.
They do wake up and recover, but only to be their more aged and reduced version of themselves.
I don't know if I can accept this possibility. Lucy is already pretty aged and reduced, and doesn't have a lot of energy to spare.
 
Re: 2/22 AMBG=200 // FASTING FOR B/W

You must have fixed the profile, because there was no blank page when I looked at it just now. Your girls are beautiful, Mariko! Such sweet faces.

Sending good vetty vines, and good appy vines for Lucy afterward. Hope all goes/went smoothly.
 
Re: 2/22 AMBG=200 // Fasting for B/W & Some Qs

Hi Mariko,

I just wanted to share with you that when a cat has even one painful tooth it can cause them to stop eating. My little pancreatic kitty Jomo was nearly toothless when I found her near death and rescued her. After a thorough check-up, the vets told me that she a rotten tooth that was broken off in the back of her mouth. Jomo weighed only 4 pounds and they told me that she might not make it through surgery to remove the tooth all the way to the root.

Do you ever notice Lucy pawing at the side of her face, but it might look like she is cleaning it. I knew with Jomo that it was her rubbing that area where the rotten tooth was because it was really hurting her. I also looked into Jomo's mouth with the vet and I could see how red and swollen that area looked. I just couldn't handle it because I know what i feel like when I have a bad tooth ache.

In my mind, my Jomo would not have had much of a quality life if she was in pain from that tooth that was hurting her so much. I would watch her eat and I could see that it was causing her pain. Then, she wouldn't eat very much because of that pain and she started to lose too much weight. So, I choose the operation for tooth removal. I learned that there are a couple of different types of anesthesia that can be used on cats, one of them is safer and more gentle. It is also more expensive to use it. I don't know what it is called but that is what I choose for my Jomo.

Jomo had the tooth removal surgery and she was groggy and sort of out of it for about 5 days. It really scared me! :cry: I was really frightened that maybe I had made the wrong decision. But, it was like a miracle happened, one morning she woke me up in my bed. She was looking up at me from the side of my bed with her tail in the air just meowing and meowing. (And I always joked with DH that little four pound Jomo was an opera singer in a past life because she had THE loudest meow I have ever heard to this day. She had one powerful set of lungs!) I was like, "Yeah, Jomo wants to eat again!" I followed her into the kitchen, (she led the way), and fed her. She ate all of her food and then went and jumped up on the couch where she preened herself for a long time before she curled into a ball and fell asleep. I was so relieved. She was pain free and eating again. After that surgery she really just continued to get more and more healthy for the rest of the years of her life. That pain in her mouth that was making her not want to eat was all gone.
 
Re: 2/22 Lucy AMBG=200 // Fasted for B/W & Some Qs

(((Mariko))) I hope the blood work results are good. I'm sorry that Lucy's teeth are looking worse. Did the vet say what she thought was wrong with the tooth? An abscess should be dealt with.

One thing to think about is going to a dental specialist. I took Neko to the West Coast Veterinary Dental Specialists because she has a heart murmur. They have experience with complicated cases and diabetics. They have a separate person who looks after the anesthesia and doppler monitoring equipment during the operation. They also talked to Canada West to get the results of Neko's echocardiogram before hand. Call me if you want to talk more about the experience. :YMHUG: Neko did not take long to recover from her operation (tooth filing, not extraction) and purred spontaneously for me the next day.
 
Re: 2/22 Lucy AMBG=200 // Fasted for B/W & Some Qs

(((Mariko)))

It's possible that the tooth could be one reason why Lucy doesn't always want to eat. If you've ever had any kind of dental issue....perhaps needed a root canal....you know how horribly painful it can be. Yes, anesthesia is a risk. But tooth infections can cause bacteria to go through the bloodstream and into the heart, among other organs. I had to have a tooth removed from one of our kitties when she was 18 (she lived to be 21) and Gus had to have two teeth removed when he was 16 and had CKD. Yes, I worried, but I took as many precautions as possible.

I would ask if there is, by any chance, a board certified veterinary anesthesiologist in your area. We have one here and she always does the anesthesia on our cats. Even for routine dental cleaning. That allows the vet to be focused entirely on what she is doing and get it done instead of also having to worry about monitoring. An anesthesiologist will know the safest anesthesia to use. Typically the inhaled gases like isofluorane are safest because as soon as the gas is turned off, the kitty starts waking up. It is only processed through the lungs and not the organs (e.g. kidney) as something like ketamine. The time they spend groggy and disoriented is much, much less.

When I asked for ondansetron for Gracie, my vet looked it up in Plumb's which is the veterinary pharmaceutical book....probably the same as your vet has.

Here is a link to the use of ondansetron in cats but I also pulled out a paragraph:

In my experience, ondansetron has produced dramatic results in either controlling or at least significantly decreasing the frequency of vomiting in dogs and cats with frequent or severe vomiting, including in dogs with severe parvovirus enteritis, in pancreatitis patients, and cats with hepatic lipidosis. The recommended dose is 0.25 to 0.5 mg/lb IV given as a slow push every 6 to 12 hours (based on patient response). Frequently dogs that appear quite distressed due to nausea and vomiting look much more relaxed and comfortable within 15 minutes of receiving ondansetron. There are no reports of any significant side effects such as diarrhea, sedation, or extrapyramidal signs in human and animal trials. While Zofran was quite expensive for many years, it came off patent in 2007 and is now affordable for use at any small animal hospital. Its use should be considered in any patient with intractable vomiting (maropitant and dolasetron are the other top choices for this situation). Animals with significant liver disease are best managed with ondansetron or dolasetron, as maropitant must be used with caution in animals with significant hepatic dysfunction.
Click to expand...

And here is another link regarding Ondansetron found within the Colorado State Univ Veterinary Drug Handbook.

PS: LOVE the profile :-D
 
Re: 2/22 Lucy AMBG=200 // Fasted for B/W & Some Qs

I hope you get good b/w results back for both kitties. It's hard to make the decision to put a senior kitty under anesthesia. I hope the information you've received will be helpful in making your decision. :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

I love the profile. Lucy and Ginger are such sweet kitties.
 
Re: 2/22 Lucy AMBG=200 // Fasted for B/W & Some Qs

I also should tell you that Jomo was lucky to have a DVM cat tooth specialist to perform her surgery. The DVM just happened to work at the clinic where Jomo became known as the miracle kitty.

I agree with Wendy, that probably a DVM who specializes in cat teeth surgeries would be the best way to go, should you choose surgery for your little Lucy.
 
Re: 2/22 Lucy AMBG=200 // Fasted for B/W & Some Qs

I kept asking my vet about a dental for J.D. and at first he kept saying "not at this time" then he starting saying "no" because of the risk of anesthesia. I eventually arranged to take J.D. to a Dental Specialist, and I arranged an appointment with a cardiologist first where we talked, and then he had an echo cardiogram, and he passed that. Then I had an appointment with a dedicated anestheaologist and we talked about J.D.'s kidneys and diabetes and what kind of anesthesia drugs would be best for him. Then I had the appointment with the Dental Specialist, where I also got to talk to him about my concerns. These were all arranged within about a half hour apart as it was over an hours drive to get there. I'm glad I did it, because J.D. had a major abscess on one of his canines and it had to be removed, along with seven other teeth that weren't as bad as that canine was. And of course he had blood work first, to make sure he would be okay.
Sorry, for rambling. I would see if you can find a Dental Specialist and just talk to them, if her blood work is okay.
 
Re: 2/22 Lucy AMBG=200 // Fasted for B/W & Some Qs

Just a quick suggestion to add to the others...if you just had bloodwork done, check Lucy's liver function. Anesthesia is cleared through the liver, so if her liver is working well, that's a pretty good indication that she should do fine if she's otherwise pretty healthy.

If her liver isn't doing so well, you'd want to weigh that with the risk of Lucy not eating and being in pain

Let's hope the tests are all great!
 
Re: 2/22 Lucy AMBG=200 // Fasted for B/W & Some Qs

punkin had a total of 7 anesthesias - never fun, but he didn't seem to have any ill effects at all.

he had a dental done when he first became diabetic. i hate to think what that must've been like because it was done by our vet who is a large animal specialty - probably on a concrete slab in their back room. he came through fine although he did get an infection where they removed molars.

before he was treated for his acromegaly, we had his heart checked at the university vet hospital here by a veterinary cardiologist. didn't want to drive to Colorado and find out there that his heart couldn't take it. i was glad we'd had it done. they also were experts at this and they talked to us thoroughly about what they would use and how the anesthesia would be handled. they had an anesthesiologist on hand for his radiation procedures. He had anesthesia 4 days in a row for testing and treatment.

he had a dental done here locally by an accredited veterinary dentist - there is a list by area of specialists. i'm not sure if that's the link Wendy gave you, but if you search for veterinary dentist you'll get it.

i had the option for a separate anesthesiologist to be present, but it would've added $700 to the bill, which was already over $1,000. punkin was a golden kitty in more ways than one. :-D anything for that little guy! the normal procedure with this vet dentist was to have a tech monitoring the anesthesia while the dentist was working, and based upon my conversations with her we opted to just go with that. he was fine. he had his 2 fangs removed on that adventure.

he also had surgery at our local university veterinary hospital to remove an oral tumor that we thought was cancer, but turned out to be nothing. they had specialists all over there, but i don't recall now if a separate anesthesiologist was in the room - probably so.

so . . . that's my long way of saying that i think if she needs it, there are things you can do to make it as safe as possible for her. i'd look into specialists - our diabetic cats are delicate and especially the senior ones. there are no guarantees, but it would improve her chances of flying through without difficulty.
 
Re: 2/22 Lucy AMBG=200 // Fasted for B/W & Some Qs

I just want to add prayers...I know you're facing a stressful decision and you have gotten lots of great support and answers for Lucy's dental situation here.

For Ginger's BP...my vet used 160 as her cut off, meaning that 160 does account for "white coat syndrome." We just started Trix on BP meds 3 weeks ago, and she was at 170. Our GA civvie Mario was on BP meds for 2 years...it really did help control his BP, and it eliminated the element of worry that comes with hypertension.
 
Thank you so very much for everyone for your suggestion, information and well wishes.
They are very helpful.
I think when I speak with the vet tomorrow about her results, unless her values are much worse, I'll ask her to send a referral to the dental specialist.
I feel better knowing there are these specialists I can see, and some precautions I can take.
I'm going to see how I can arrange to get the anesthesiologist involved... maybe a cardiologist too.....

Wendy - I think it's going to be the West Coast Vet. I may call you tomorrow after speaking with the vet.

Amy - Thank you for the info about BP. Now I am getting increasingly anxious about Ginger took, but it's better to be informed.
I'll make a point to discuss this in depth with the vet tomorrow......
Today, the vet told me to try and count her pulse when she's more relaxed at home, but it's hard... Ginger is so wiggly.

Lucy's number is high, but she's keeping it yellow.
I expected pink so not too horrible.
She's feeling and eating fine. :-D
 
The veterinary specialists web site says they may ask to see a chest radiograph before the procedure. They are more expensive but also put more resources on each case. If you do go there, make sure you mention Lucy is diabetic - they allowed me to feed Neko a bit of food early in the morning so no overnight fast. They also spent quite a bit of time on the phone with me telling me what to expect and answering questions before I went there and we had a long consultation in the morning before the procedure. I did some googling, and found that there is a roaming board certified anesthesiologist who works out of the Vancouver pet hospitals - so that is another option. We went to Canada West for the echocardiogram but there are also roving vets that bring their equipment to vets offices. Good luck with the vetty discussion tomorrow.
 
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