2/22 Lucian AMPS HI, +4/376,+6/419,PMPS HI
- Thread starter nckitties3
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MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI
Man I wish I knew what to try next with him...only thing I can think of at this point is just keep raising him every 3 days until he hits a breakthrough dose. Unless you want to try going the other way and starting him out on the dose the vet originally started him on of 3u and see if he comes down enough to earn a reduction..
Usually it is easier to start them low and go up to the right dose, than to start high and reduce as they earn the reductions. But Lucian is defying all the rules...those 300 pt jumps from +9 to pmps are just silly.
There has to be something we are missing here but for the life of me I haven't a clue what unless he is IAA, or insulin resistant. But that is something that I have no experience with at all...So I'm going to have to see what I can find on that to see if he looks like he might be either IAA or Acro. I don't think acro since you said he has kind of a delicate build, and from what limited information I have on Acro they are usually built like little line backers. Big head, big paws etc.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
Man I wish I knew what to try next with him...only thing I can think of at this point is just keep raising him every 3 days until he hits a breakthrough dose. Unless you want to try going the other way and starting him out on the dose the vet originally started him on of 3u and see if he comes down enough to earn a reduction..
Usually it is easier to start them low and go up to the right dose, than to start high and reduce as they earn the reductions. But Lucian is defying all the rules...those 300 pt jumps from +9 to pmps are just silly.
There has to be something we are missing here but for the life of me I haven't a clue what unless he is IAA, or insulin resistant. But that is something that I have no experience with at all...So I'm going to have to see what I can find on that to see if he looks like he might be either IAA or Acro. I don't think acro since you said he has kind of a delicate build, and from what limited information I have on Acro they are usually built like little line backers. Big head, big paws etc.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
Grayson & Lu
Member Since 2012
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI
Hi Deb -
I agree with Mel; I would continue to increase the dose every three days. To me it looks like you just haven't gotten there yet. My gut tells me that you aren't dealing with resistance, as you're getting movement - even 250 points of movement, and 100 points when you start in the yellows. When Grayson wasn't moving, he flat out was NOT moving. IF we saw 25-50 points in a day, we considered that movement. If he'd have been starting out in the blues, that would've been good, but he was starting out red & pink. Check the ProZinc tab on his spreadsheet.
Some people have issues with getting up to 3 or more units. My philosophy was "whatever it takes" - I just never imagined G's resistance would be SOOOOO strong! I'd give my right arm to be ONLY dosing 5 units! That being said, just keep increasing gradually. I think if you start off too high (which I agree the 3 was mighty high that early on), you might have missed it. I would be inclined to increase by .5 once you reach 2 units. That's a 25% increase. At lower doses you are best to stay with the .25 increases.
I'll pop in shortly & check on you. Shot time now.
Lu-Ann
Hi Deb -
I agree with Mel; I would continue to increase the dose every three days. To me it looks like you just haven't gotten there yet. My gut tells me that you aren't dealing with resistance, as you're getting movement - even 250 points of movement, and 100 points when you start in the yellows. When Grayson wasn't moving, he flat out was NOT moving. IF we saw 25-50 points in a day, we considered that movement. If he'd have been starting out in the blues, that would've been good, but he was starting out red & pink. Check the ProZinc tab on his spreadsheet.
Some people have issues with getting up to 3 or more units. My philosophy was "whatever it takes" - I just never imagined G's resistance would be SOOOOO strong! I'd give my right arm to be ONLY dosing 5 units! That being said, just keep increasing gradually. I think if you start off too high (which I agree the 3 was mighty high that early on), you might have missed it. I would be inclined to increase by .5 once you reach 2 units. That's a 25% increase. At lower doses you are best to stay with the .25 increases.
I'll pop in shortly & check on you. Shot time now.
Lu-Ann
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI
Thanks Lu-Ann
I still remember the early days with Grayson which is why I sent you the SOS...
He was the only cat that I can remember looking at his spreadsheet and thinking what the heck is happening here he doesn't move at all. He was also the only cat that I remember staying that High for so long. Figured if anyone could help us figure Lucian out it would you.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
Thanks Lu-Ann
I still remember the early days with Grayson which is why I sent you the SOS...
He was the only cat that I can remember looking at his spreadsheet and thinking what the heck is happening here he doesn't move at all. He was also the only cat that I remember staying that High for so long. Figured if anyone could help us figure Lucian out it would you. Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI
Thanks to both of you. Maybe I'll get lucky and he just needs more than the average 'diabetic' cat.
The vet sent him home with BG's over 700 and a 3 unit dose. But he was eating dry food and I changed all that the day he came home, which is why I dropped him down to start over and did it again just to make sure he wasn't getting too much. I think we've pretty much established that his 'good' dose is not below 1.5 at least. He was on 1.75 for 12 cycles, but that's as high as he's been. Do you think it's feasible to go to 2.0 at his next increase or should I still do the 1.75? It doesn't make sense to me since it didn't work last time. But I don't know the wheres and whys.
I'm out of ideas, frustrated and tired and so is Lucian, all that poor baby does is sleep.
Thanks to both of you. Maybe I'll get lucky and he just needs more than the average 'diabetic' cat.
The vet sent him home with BG's over 700 and a 3 unit dose. But he was eating dry food and I changed all that the day he came home, which is why I dropped him down to start over and did it again just to make sure he wasn't getting too much. I think we've pretty much established that his 'good' dose is not below 1.5 at least. He was on 1.75 for 12 cycles, but that's as high as he's been. Do you think it's feasible to go to 2.0 at his next increase or should I still do the 1.75? It doesn't make sense to me since it didn't work last time. But I don't know the wheres and whys.
I'm out of ideas, frustrated and tired and so is Lucian, all that poor baby does is sleep.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI, +4/376
I'm not 'steering' him like I have been the last couple days. I gave him a small snack @+2 and he's eating now after his +4 test. I'm going to try for a +6 and +8 and see how he does on his normal eating.
I'm not 'steering' him like I have been the last couple days. I gave him a small snack @+2 and he's eating now after his +4 test. I'm going to try for a +6 and +8 and see how he does on his normal eating.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI, +4/376
Just heard back from CJ as well...she also thinks we just need to break the glucose toxicity by taking him up...Her suggestion is take him up to 2u either tonight or in the morning and hold for 2 days to see if we can get rid of those blacks. He is getting movement on this insulin just don't think the dose is high enough yet to break-through for him...so Up we go until we get a handle on things.
Right now I doubt very highly you are going to have to worry about him dropping too low on you.
And hon, he's going to be tired until we get him under control, he is expending all his energy right now just trying to survive since he isn't getting what he needs from his food right now, he is starting too since he is getting some insulin to unlock his food for his body to use but not enough yet.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
Just heard back from CJ as well...she also thinks we just need to break the glucose toxicity by taking him up...Her suggestion is take him up to 2u either tonight or in the morning and hold for 2 days to see if we can get rid of those blacks. He is getting movement on this insulin just don't think the dose is high enough yet to break-through for him...so Up we go until we get a handle on things.
Right now I doubt very highly you are going to have to worry about him dropping too low on you.
And hon, he's going to be tired until we get him under control, he is expending all his energy right now just trying to survive since he isn't getting what he needs from his food right now, he is starting too since he is getting some insulin to unlock his food for his body to use but not enough yet.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI, +4/376
Agreed, the chance of him going low is pretty slim, so I'm not worried about increasing it tonight, I'll test him before I go to bed.
At this point, anything is worth a shot.
I'm so exhausted, my own medical issues are kicking my butt. Sure would be easier if I was in better health, to care for him. I'm having to battle both and it sux.
Agreed, the chance of him going low is pretty slim, so I'm not worried about increasing it tonight, I'll test him before I go to bed.
At this point, anything is worth a shot.
I'm so exhausted, my own medical issues are kicking my butt. Sure would be easier if I was in better health, to care for him. I'm having to battle both and it sux.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI, +4/376
Sounds like a plan....so take him up to 2u tonight let him sit on that for 3-5 days and then we will see where he settles on that. We may just have to keep him going up until we find something that works for him. Now if we start hitting really high doses like over 10-15u b.i.d. then we will have to figure out a way to get him tested for IAA and Acro, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it, and like I've told you before, I have seen hundreds of miracles happen here, and not just cats going off insulin, you would be surprised at how folks will turn out with supplies, money and support when they know there is a need.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
Sounds like a plan....so take him up to 2u tonight let him sit on that for 3-5 days and then we will see where he settles on that. We may just have to keep him going up until we find something that works for him. Now if we start hitting really high doses like over 10-15u b.i.d. then we will have to figure out a way to get him tested for IAA and Acro, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it, and like I've told you before, I have seen hundreds of miracles happen here, and not just cats going off insulin, you would be surprised at how folks will turn out with supplies, money and support when they know there is a need.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI, +4/376,+6/419
He's obviously on his way back to HI, so I'll increase dose tonight.
He's obviously on his way back to HI, so I'll increase dose tonight.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI, +4/376,+6/419
I will be watching to see how he does tonight and I'll make sure I'm here tomorrow too just to keep an eye on you both.
We will get this figured out, just got to keep trying stuff until we find something that works. I just wish it was as easy as if they weigh this much, they are eating this type of food then they need this dose of insulin, but it just isn't.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
I will be watching to see how he does tonight and I'll make sure I'm here tomorrow too just to keep an eye on you both.
We will get this figured out, just got to keep trying stuff until we find something that works. I just wish it was as easy as if they weigh this much, they are eating this type of food then they need this dose of insulin, but it just isn't.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI, +4/376,+6/419
Thanks Mel, I think I'll try to take a nap, I'm wiped out.
Thanks Mel, I think I'll try to take a nap, I'm wiped out.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI, +4/376,+6/419
Even if you can't sleep go do something fun, pull out a coloring book and color away, go soak in a bubblebath, or even just go stare out the window for awhile and let your mind wander...You have to keep your batteries charged.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
Even if you can't sleep go do something fun, pull out a coloring book and color away, go soak in a bubblebath, or even just go stare out the window for awhile and let your mind wander...You have to keep your batteries charged.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
Re: 2/22 Lucian AMPS HI, +4/376,+6/419
Tried to get a +8, didn't realize the meter didn't come on when I put the strip in, wasted strip and effort. I know where he's going anyway and he's fighting me again.
Tried to get a +8, didn't realize the meter didn't come on when I put the strip in, wasted strip and effort. I know where he's going anyway and he's fighting me again.
nckitties3
Member Since 2013
This is a train wreck...'move along, nothing to see here!' If it wasn't so frustrating, it would be funny.
Increased dosage to 2.0, we'll see what happens.
Increased dosage to 2.0, we'll see what happens.
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