? 2/22-Flame-AMPS=351,+3.25=297,+6=226,+9=235,PMPS=288 ,+3=263- Dosecrease ?

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Donna and Flame

Donna and Flame

Member Since 2009
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...nother-breathing-episode.173565/#post-1902136

Hi everybody,
Working from home today again. Rough morning. Woke up to Flame vomiting white foamy stuff on the kitchen bench cushion, followed by a bit of rough breathing - no coughing. He hasn't vomited recently at all. Wondering if that may have to do with the kidney issues. He didn't finish his food last nite. Left quite a bit in his bowl.

He had another breathing episode last nite. Details in yesterday's condo linked above. Took him into bed with me last nite and about 30 mins - 1 hr after lights out, he did cough a little bit. He got down off the bed at some point after I fell asleep and came back downstairs.

Crushed up his Famotadine and Zyrtec (gave him 1/2 pill - 5 mg today) in baby food with half a Methyl-b12 cap and he did lap that up. Gave him his shot and a bit of turkey lunch meat as a treat, which he ate eagerly. I wasn't sure he'd eat anything after vomiting.

If he needs something else for nausea, what do people here use?

He let me give him his inhaler this morning without too much of an issue (thank goodness!!). I swear this cat can count!! I kept telling him in the beginning that he had to take 10 breaths and then he was done!! For a while, he was really good about it and I could get him to take more than 10 breaths. Now, I swear... he takes 10 breaths and then he starts to fidgit and try to get away!!

His appy is kind of off again today, but he was just nibbling on his FF. My son also said when he cleaned the litter boxes this morning, that Flame had pooped A LOT. He said it was mostly formed but may have been a little squishy at the end. Not runny diarrhea though. I did give him SEB yesterday. Wonder if that made him poop so much. I was going to give some more today in case his tummy is upset, but not sure if I should. Don't want him getting loose stools on top of everything else.

These episodes of coughing/wheezing have me very concerned. Could be from taking him off the Pred, but his vet was also wondering whether something else could be triggering it or if it's just the asthma or something else entirely. I am going to have a cardiac ultrasound done.

Other than weaning off the Pred, the only things that are new are the low phos foods (wondering if there is an ingredient that doesn't agree with him or he's reacting to), the aluminum hydroxide binder, the Methyl-b12. I switched him back to FF (I know it's too high in Phos) for last nite and today just to see what happens.

Does anyone else here have an asthmatic cat (I've spoken to DebG)? Are they able to be controlled on inhaled steroids? Do they have any other health issues like Flame does? Have they ever had a reaction triggering an attack because of food, supplements, etc?

If this keeps up, I am going to try putting him back on the Pred. Not sure of dose, but guess I'll start back where we were (1.25 mg every day). My vet's not in today. Her husband was admitted to the hospital last nite.

If anybody has any input on any/all of this, I'd sure appreciate it. I'm not even sure what questions to ask at this point, there is so much going on. I feel like I'm on an emotional roller coaster.

I hope all the kitties and beans in L&L land are happy and healthy today!! Prayers and vines for all who need them today.
 
I use ondansetron or cerenia for nausea. Ondansetron is a human medication. I get an RX and use Good RX to get the best price in. Y area which is often Costco. Cerenia is a vet med usually cheaper on line than from a vet so an RX is good for it too except maybe for the first time when you want to see if it works. I hope the asthma gets under control. I know how worried you are. :bighug:
 
If Flame was vomiting white, foamy vomit, it may just be from an empty stomach instead of him being nauseaus. I'm so sorry he had another breathing episode. I hope you can figure out if something in the new food has been causing it or he needs to go back on the pred. Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Just got off the phone with the vet's office. The cardiac specialist is going to be there on Friday, so I was able to get this scheduled right away (he is a specialist at another hospital who comes to my vet's office when requested). @Doodles & Karen - got lucky - scheduled for this Friday.

Flame is sleeping a lot today. Can't really say whether this is normal for him cause I'm usually at work, but on the weekends when he has been feeling good, he was definitely more active. I can tell he's not feeling well. He did nibble a little more and I gave him just a few pieces of turkey lunch meat after his +6 test as a treat and he eats that no problem and looks for more.
Sure wish I could figure out something (besides baby food) that he'd really like to eat consistently.
 
Sorry to hear so many things are happening to poor little Flame. :bighug:

If Pepcid (fatomadine) is part of his regular routine, you might find it more helpful to give at night before bed. I've read on Tanya's site that seems to be more successful than giving it during the day. As well as making sure he has food to nibble on during the wee hours. Neko used to do the occasional foamy vomit too, and I originally thought it was from her CKD. But it turned out to be something different. When she got a little constipated, sometimes she'd do the little foamy vomit right after going poo. In hind sight for her, that was an early sign that her bowels were thickened and putting her on budesonide, which reduced the bowel size, solved the problem. I'm not suggesting that's what Flame has, just that more than one thing can cause foamy vomit so you should probably discuss with your vet if you see it again. And try to find a pattern in it's occurence.

@Melissa & Tarragon has a long time diabetic asthmatic cat. He also has IBD and HCM. Melissa doesn't post all the time. Tarragon gets pred and Flovent regularly. Sometimes she has to up the pred for seasonally allergies, and just ups the insulin dose to compensate. FYI, here is Tarragon's SS.

Just as I was typing I saw you got the cardiac appointment. That's fantastic! One thing you might want to do in the interim is to take Flames RR or resting respiration rate. When he's snoozing, try counting the number of complete breaths he does in a minute. I found the timer on my cell phone helpful for that. That's one thing vetty can't do in the office. Neko's respiration rate was always elevated in vetty office.
 
Do you have a time feeder, Donna? If so, a snack around +8 or +9 might help prevent the foamy vomit in the morning. As Wendy mentioned, sometimes it's just from an empty tummy.

Sending vines for improved breathing and appy vines, too. :bighug:s for the bean.
 
Hi @Wendy&Neko @Doodles & Karen and @Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey - firstly, thanks so much for your replies and for tagging others that may be able to lend some experience.

I free feed Flame. Always have since I adopted him. Both he and my other cat (now GA) were always grazers, not gobblers so I just learned to leave the food down and they ate when they wanted to. So, bottom line is, Flame always has food available. When I leave for work, I usually leave him a full can (3 oz) and another 1/2 can of food. Sometimes he eats it all during the day, sometimes he doesn't but has normally eaten most of it. Same thing at nite. I feed him around shot time (7:15 - 7:30 PM) and then I always leave whatever he hasn't eaten and another fresh 1/2 can before bed. When he's feeling well, normally he'll eat all /most all of it.

I could try switching the Famotadine to the night time. I've been giving 1/4 of a 10 mg tab. I asked my vet the other day whether that was the max dose for a cat and she said I could give another 1/4 tab if needed. For those of you using this, do you think that would be too much?

I feel like he's hungry today but maybe not thrilled with the food because he sure will eat baby food and chows down on the few pieces of turkey lunch meat I give as snacks at shot time and after his inhaler. I made a tuna sandwich for lunch and he was mooching. I don't know what to give him. I have a few varieties of Weruva (low c/ low p) that I haven't tried yet, but so far one of the flavors gave him diarrhea on Sunday and the other "may" be suspect because the breathing issues started after he started eating it, so today I've only given him FF with binders and some baby food with his pills.

Any other suggestions on food?

Thanks so much to all of you!!
 
Donna and Flame said:
I've only given him FF with binders and some baby food with his pills.

Any other suggestions on food?
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If he's eating the FF with the binder, then that's what I'd feed him. I know that's what @Amy&TrixieCat dose with Miss Trix. It's not food if they don't eat it and he can't live on baby food as there is no kitty nutrients in there. Doodles finally agreed to eat ZiwiPeak but still only eats 1/2 oz at a time. I've been through every food on the list so just have to keep trying. Have you tried Wellness? Many CKD kitties eat that too.
 
Karen is right - for a long time, I fed Trix FF with binder because that was all she'd eat at the time. Just last fall I did switch her to Wellness Chicken Pate and Sheba Chicken Pate, though (I still use binder with both of those, too).

I can't remember if we've mentioned it before, but another thing to keep in mind with the Weruva foods is that they very low in calories.

For nausea, we've always used cerenia, but I know others do have great luck with Onda. Trix gets 4mg (1/4 16mg tablet) daily.

For famotadine, the max you can give at a time is 5mg...and that's what Trix gets twice a day.

ECID, though, so it is important to find out what works best for Flame, and I would try to keep meds to the bare minimum - enough that they work for him, but not too much. Trix's doses seem like a lot, but we got there through trial and error - they work for her, but may not be what's best for another cat.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Have you tried Wellness? Many CKD kitties eat that too.
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Hey Karen,
I've tried Wellness in the past. He didn't care for it. I'm not adverse to trying again. I think I had fed Flame and my other cat Hobbes ZiwiPeak rabbit at one time in the past.

I just gave him about 1/3 can of Weruva Tuna and Chicken Chuckles (don''t ya just love these names?!?!) and he did eat about 1/2 of that. Problem is, when no one is home to offer him "room service" all day, I need to find something he'll eat on his own. This week, he's been getting lots of attention cause my son has been home and I've been home for 2 days also, so if I notice he's not eaten in a while, I'll offer him something.

I brought him up on the kitchen bench to test him and he promptly went back to sleep on the bench. Just no energy today, poor guy.
Now, I'm starting to feel like I'm coming down with something. ARGHHH!! I can't afford to be sick. I HAVE to go into the office tomorrow!! :mad:
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
Karen is right - for a long time, I fed Trix FF with binder because that was all she'd eat at the time. Just last fall I did switch her to Wellness Chicken Pate and Sheba Chicken Pate, though (I still use binder with both of those, too).

I can't remember if we've mentioned it before, but another thing to keep in mind with the Weruva foods is that they very low in calories.

For nausea, we've always used cerenia, but I know others do have great luck with Onda. Trix gets 4mg (1/4 16mg tablet) daily.

For famotadine, the max you can give at a time is 5mg...and that's what Trix gets twice a day.

ECID, though, so it is important to find out what works best for Flame, and I would try to keep meds to the bare minimum - enough that they work for him, but not too much. Trix's doses seem like a lot, but we got there through trial and error - they work for her, but may not be what's best for another cat.
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Hi Amy,
He's not even eating the FF reliably any more. He may be bored with it. He's gotten fussy with it before. Do you know the Carb and Phos content of the Wellness Chicken Pate and the Sheba Chicken Pate and is that exactly what they are called? Sometimes, I go to look for food that someone recommended I try and they call it one thing, but the actual name on the can is something else. I didn't see either of those on the Low C/ Low P lists here or on Tanya's site.

Yes, I noticed the Weruva foods are lower in calories, so I've been feeding both some of that and the FF also. Main goal here is to just get him to eat.

I don't have either Onda or Cerenia at home, so will ask Vet about getting some to keep around in case he needs it.

He has only been getting 2.5 mg Famotadine once a day in the AM, so I was wondering if it would be safe to give another 2.5 mg at night if I feel like he may need it.

I already feel like he's getting a lot of stuff, but not compared to some I guess. He gets Flovent inhaler 2x per day, Famotadine, Zyrtec, B-12, binders, cosequin, obviously insulin and was getting Pred until last Saturday.

Thanks so much Amy!! :bighug:
 
I have to be honest...I don't know the values, but I do know that Wellness Phos is lower than FF. I switched Trix because her BGs had been starting to run a bit higher (still normal, but higher than usual) so I was doing a food experiment with the Wellness and Sheba....turns out she now likes both more than her old FF, so I stayed with them. Her BGs are fine with them, and she's eating well...soooooo, even though I don't know the values, it's what we're going with.

With the famotadine, what you could first try doing is just switching his 2.5mg to night to see if that helps, rather than initially adding a second daily dose in. If the 2.5mg at night rather than the morning doesn't help, then you could talk to your vet about what he thinks is best (twice daily dosing VS increasing the night dose to 5mg like Trix gets). But yes, if necessary, 2.5mg twice a day is safe to do, at least for most cats.
 
Hi Donna,

Sorry to hear about Flame's troubles. Kismet has asthma, too. His seems to be entirely allergic bronchitis and is usually worse in the spring and summer. When he was first diagnosed, if my husband mowed the lawn, Kiz would almost inevitably have an attack. He now changes out of his lawn clothes in the garage before coming inside and that has definitely reduced the frequency of his attacks.

We have used Flovent in the past for daily treatments when his asthma was worse. Now we only use his Albuterol to treat his attacks as they occur. (Maybe 3 times a year.) I'm confident that he is allergic to weeds and pollens, but I also think he is allergic to some ingredients in foods. FF seems to trigger it more than any other food, but we still occasionally feed Turkey and Giblets and he copes fine. We avoid all fish and beef products (regardless of brand) as I've noticed a correlation to his asthma. We also switched over to fragrance free laundry detergent and avoid using smelly household chemicals, perfumes, and we no longer burn candles. This has seemed to help tremendously.

Someone else mentioned pepcid a/c for upset stomach. That's what we use, too. We get the 10 mg tablets and cut them in half to give 5 mg doses.

I hope Flame feels better soon!
 
I forgot to mention that we got several HEPA air purifiers. One is by the litter box, one in the family room, and one in our bedroom (all areas he spends the most time in.) I think this has also helped reduce the frequency of his attacks.

What kind of litter do you use? We only use low dust (99% dust free) litter. We tried natural litters but he refused to use them. One was made out of old newspapers (nope) and we also tried a pine litter which made his asthma worse (surprise, surprise.)
 
He ate a bit just now. Offered him some FF Turkey/giblets - 1/2 can from this AM - and about another 1/3 can of the Weruva, which he ate most of - he picked at the FF. He is just floppy today. Has no energy, poor guy. He hasn't had any breathing episodes since he coughed a little after vomiting this morning, thank goodness, but he is just not feeling well and I wish I knew why. About to break out some baby food just to see if I can stimulate his appetite a bit more. Sometimes, once he starts eating something he likes, it seems to "wake up" his appetite.

I am so not feeling well. I think I may have to take something and turn in earlier tonite. I think the stress has finally gotten the best of me. I even skipped Yoga tonite and I NEVER do that!

Hope everyone is doing well and all the kitties are happy and safe!
 
I'm seriously thinking of putting him back on a low dose of pred - maybe same dose 1.25 mg, but not sure if I should go back to every day or every 2 days. He was still doing well while I was weaning him and went to every other day. I'd like to keep him at the lowest possible dose that maintains him.
I am still undecided about that, but am leaning towards doing it.

Whether I put him back on Pred tomorrow or not, I think I need to bump his insulin by .25 U either tomorrow nite or Friday AM. I didn't want to hold this dose this long, but wasn't sure what he'd do once off the pred so held for this week. He's having the cardiac ultrasound on Friday, so do you think it's OK to do a dosecrease a the same time? His numbers will probably be higher at least for part of the day due to vet stress, but usually return to normal pretty quickly once he's home.

I am not sure if it's the asthma that is making him innappetant and lethargic or not, but all I know is I don't want to see him like this.

Thoughts anyone?
 
I wouldn't add the pred until after the echo. Pred is contraindicated for some heart conditions.

What part of the cycle is the cardio appt? Yes on the increase, the question is timing.
 
Sending lots of hugs your way. I don't have any words of wisdom. It can offer my thoughts and prayers and I'll send some more Reiki to Flame and you. Hug :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I wouldn't add the pred until after the echo. Pred is contraindicated for some heart conditions.

What part of the cycle is the cardio appt? Yes on the increase, the question is timing.
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Hi Wendy,
I have no idea what time he'll have the procedure. I have to drop him off at 8 am and the cardiologist will do the procedure at some point that morning/early afternoon, most likely. This is a visiting cardiologist from another hospital who only comes to his animal hospital when he is requested. When I called today, they said he was coming on Friday, so I assume he already had other appointments set up for that day.
I was a little afraid to do the increase that morning because I don't trust that they will monitor his BG while he's there. I could ask, but most likely they'll use venous blood and an AT meter and would probably only do a single test. He might be there till +6 or later.

I like to do increases on Fridays because I work from home and can monitor all weekend and that gives me a full 6 cycles to see what the dose is doing before I go back to work on Monday.

What do you think?

If he is still having difficulty tomorrow I hate to make him wait until Friday to re-start the Pred, but I see your point.

Thanks as always Wendy!
 
I agree, I would wait until after the echo to do the increase. In my experience, they don't monitor like we do, or don't react the way we would if they saw low numbers.
 
I'm sorry for being so late...I'm super bad about getting to the board sometimes. If you have questions let me know. My girl is also asthmatic. I take her in for a shot every few months.
 
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