2/21 P - AMPS:350

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Melissa and P

Melissa and P

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We didn't see those blues until his third cycle on 4, so maybe he likes getting used to a dose...

+4: 333
+6: 349
+7: 369
+8: 376
+10: 361
PMPS: 457
+2: 353
+4: 316
+6: 327
 
Melissa and P said:
Hope everything goes well at the vet! :-D


So I'm wondering if P's getting a longer duration from his shot, with these higher doses.
Carl said
In general, Eddie seems to rise in the first 2-3 hours after a shot. That makes sense, because it would go up after eating until onset happens.
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This is the opposite for P (at least at night, I don't have any +2 from the morning dose to tell if it's happening then too). It looks like he's still going down in the first 2-4 hours after shot/feeding. And he has been having a way late nadir (+8, +10)in the AM cycle. I don't know what to do with this information. I don't even know if I'm correct to assume this is what's happening, due to the last couple bounces. And then there are those blues to throw me off. 2/19's AM dose had a nadir at +10, then the evening dose had an early nadir at +5.5, after I fed a TBSP of food, to slow him down. Then he jumps right back up to 272 at +7and has a high, flat cycle the following morning.

ohmygod_smile
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It's hard to see much rhyme or reason to P's patterns yet. :YMSIGH: It could be that he's getting some duration on the shots, but it's just not pushing him down. Or it could just be that the resistance gives way to the insulin at random times. I believe I read somewhere that with resistance, be it due to glucose toxicity or due to a high-dose condition, that the nadirs and lows seem to happen kind of randomly.
 
I am puzzled also unless he does take three or four cycles to really respond to a new dose. (He did do that before with 4 units; it was the 4th cycle before you saw blues mid cycle) I know it is not supposed to work that way with ProZinc, but I do see it working that way for certain cats, so I think we may have to think differently and apply the ECID more liberally. I think I'd hold the 4.25 at least threee cyles and see what he does.

Pink is prettier than red and black, but I like yellow, blue and green better. :-D
 
If there ever was a perfect phrase for this whole shebang it's ECID. ;-)

I am...comforted is the wrong word (way wrong), when I see his average is more pink than red or black. But we are so ready for yellows, blues and greens.

But I am comforted by the fact that he acts like he feels so good lately. He was in bad shape before insulin. I thought I was going to lose him. As long as I see he's feeling good, I know he can fight this and I feel better.
 
I should amend my statement. When I said "he's still going down after his PMPS/shot/food", I should have said he starts going down (instead of up, which is "normal"). He goes up right before pre-shot, then goes down at +2, after shot/feeding.

PMPS: 457
+2: 353
 
I have a heck of a time seeing any real patterns with P. I think the hardest part is that he doesn't consistently see movement at a particular time in his cycle, so mama bean has to more or less continuously test to avoid missing it. @-)

I sure hope he comes down for you tonight, Melissa. It was encouraging to see the blue a couple cycles ago.
 
10.2 ibs as of two days ago. He seems to fluctuate easily. He was 11 lbs 8 days ago. I'm pretty good about weighing him at the same time, before he eats, that sort of thing. I do change the amount I feed him if he seems particularly hungry. That's definitely one of the clinical signs that he can't let go of - ravenous eating and hunger. I've been told that it looks like I feed him too much (and I do, I feed him more calories than he "needs") but that he might need it since he likes to hang out in higher numbers. I've started keeping track of how much I feed him (in my remarks section on SS). I also have a weight column right next to the remarks.
 
The reason I asked about his weight - I saw in his profile that he eats "about 2 cans of Friskees per day". And I thought, wow, that's a lot of calories! Somewhere between 350 and 400 depending on flavors. Given that the basic formula is 15-20 calories per pound per day, and even assuming that "more" is better since he's got diabetes, that's still a bunch of calories. He might be more active than Bob was. Bob was pretty much a sloth. But 250 calories, when he was on insulin, made him gain weight from 12 pounds to 14 pounds. (Pre-diabetes, he was as fat as 22 pounds).

So, it seems like P has an extra high metabolism to me. Has he ever been tested for "hyper-thyroid"? Do you know if the tests were run when he got his bloodwork done at diagnosis? I think they are called the T-4 and free T-4 values, but I might have that wrong. Obviously he's hungry enough to eat 350+ a day, but I wonder if there's something else going on besides "just diabetes".

Carl
 
I haven't kept his profile up to date like I should have been doing. He's eating strictly Fancy Feast Turkey and Giblets now, since we were kind of thinking he might have a problem with carb sensitivity. But, I just started feeding him 4 cans a day yesterday, so that's still 350+ calories. And he could still eat more. I wouldn't call him a sloth, but I don't think I'd call him very active.

I don't know what all tests were run when he got his bloodwork done. On my vet receipt, it's called "general health profile." The vet did tell me about some of the tests, because I was worried about P's kidneys, but all I was listening for was his BG is what? And his kidneys are fine?

Looks like I'm going to be spending tonight and tomorrow researching hyper-thyroid, until I can call the vet on Monday...

Thanks for your input. I was just chalking up his hunger to "just diabetes".
 
It is true that cats hanging in high numbers do eat more, because with higher BG's their body isn't absorbing nutrients well and their bodies are starving, not from lack of food.

Lucian is still going thru 2 cans a day of Friskee's and has gained 1.2# in a year. I chalk that up to his numbers being so much higher than normal for so long. He was only 7# when I got him back from the vet after DX, so I needed to put weight on him. He still needs another pound or so, he's too thin yet. He was a walking cat skeleton and I was working 64hrs a week and didn't notice.
 
I just realized: I'm going to be really damn mad if the vet didn't do a test for hyper-thyroid. I don't know how I forgot this, but when I took P in to get checked out, I asked the vet if he could have hyper-thyroid because I had been looking up his symptoms on the internet. So if I find out the vet didn't do the test, I'm going to go off.
 
I don't know how I missed your reply, Deb.

When P was on two cans of Friskees, he only gained 0.6 bs in a little over 5 weeks. Once I saw he got up to 11 lbs, I wanted to nip the weight gaining in the bud, so I started feeding him on a calorie-needs basis. I was going by what the vet said he needed - 286 calories. I don't know how the vet came up with that number, but I have noticed it is different from the formula Carl mentioned, and also, Dr. Lisa's formula [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70 (both of which equal out to about the same number). So I started splitting into four meals, with 3 cans of Fancy Feast a day, which equaled out to 282 cals. But he just seems so hungry, so I added 3/4 a can per meal, so another can a day total. I just weighed him again, and now he's 10.8. I just started feeding him the four cans a day yesterday (so two full days on 4 cans) and he's already gained 0.6 lbs.

ohmygod_smile
 
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