2/21-Flame-AMPS=349, +3=292, +6=263 , PMPS=310-,+3.5=315 Another breathing episode :-(

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Donna and Flame

Donna and Flame

Member Since 2009
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...308-2-326-pepcid-ap-stim.173501/#post-1901168

Good morning all,
Late posting today. Early meeting at work that ran long.

Given that he was feeling poorly all day yesterday, I'm not sure whether the higher numbers are still possibly a bounce from low numbers on Sunday or whether there is something else going on with him that may be causing his numbers to rise, have poor appy, be tired and not as alert/active, etc.

I've emailed his vet. She's concerned about these episodes with his breathing. This was her response: These episodes bug me. Its unclear what triggers them and are they asthma related or something else? I've thought about that myself.

I've asked her whether we could/should consider more testing - cardiac? repeat chest rads? ultrasound? even a CT scan? She said they have a cardiac specialist come to the animal hospital (not sure how often), but she could get that coordinated for me and it would likely be a precursor to any procedure that might require anesthesia anyway.

His appy is still off. Offered him some Weruva Chicken FrickAzee (1/4 can) and some FF beef this morning with the binder and he picked at it. However, I gave his pills and B-12 in baby food and he lapped that up, so he can eat and he looks like he wants to eat. Before I left today, I sprinkled some freeze dried chicken "dust" on his food and he ate a little more.
Waiting for Eric to do a +6 test for me and text results.

I'm a worried mama.

Hope all the kitties are behaving and surfing safely today and that all the beans have a peaceful day!! Prayes and vines to all in need.
 
Sending many appy vines to Flame. :bighug::bighug: Based on only my own experience, I would vote for an echocardiogram, which is a u/s of the heart or at least a heart consult. Heart conditions can impact both breathing and appetite and can can make pred contraindicated. Neko's heart was fine after her first echo, but it sure gave me peace of mind so well worth it. And also gave the go ahead for anesthesia. Last year that changed, and it was the echo again that let me know what had changed.

Oh, and he's probably still bouncing. Bounces can last up to six cycles and blue is a stranger to him.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I would vote for an echocardiogram, which is a u/s of the heart or at least a heart consult.
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Thanks Wendy! That's what we're talking about doing. I agree... if things are normal at least I know that, and if there is a problem, I want to know and be able to discuss options/treatment, etc.

Was hoping my son could get a +6 test in today but haven't heard from him and it's 1/2 hour overdue. He may have gotten caught up with something for work, but was sure hoping he could get that test in for me so I could see where he's at around nadir today.
 
I sure hope you can get to the bottom of what is going on with Flame and the breathing and the appy. It does seem strange that he will eagerly eat the baby food with the supplements. I know it is not advisable for them to be on the baby food for more than a week straight because of the lack of taurine, calcium and other things they need but what if you got some Foodfurlife supplements and added it to the baby food and let him have a full size meal of the baby food. Just to kick start his appy?

If this is a bounce, it can take 6 cycles to clear.
 
I would get an echo. Not to scare you but Max had one that was normal. Then 18 months later after on fluids he had CHF. Catch it whatever it is (not necessarily CHF) early and before it gets worse. :bighug:
 
I also agree on the bounce and getting the echocardiogram done to hopefully rule out any heart issues. Sending mega appy and feel better vines for your sweet boy. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

ETA: Flames' CPK is low normal which is good. Even if it was high, most vets disregard it as any indication of heart issues blaming it on stress of the blood draw. When in fact it can be an early indicator for heart issues. For Doodles, it was a big indictor but his HCM was already in the advanced stage as well as CHF by the time we caught onto the high CPK numbers.
 
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Doodles & Karen said:
Flames' CPK is low normal which is good. Even if it was high, most vets disregard it as any indication of heart issues blaming it on stress of the blood draw. When in fact it can be an early indicator for heart issues.
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Even when Neko was in heart failure, her CPK was in normal range. Just higher than her normal (low normal CPK) range. ECID.
 
I've already emailed my vet and asked if it's possible to set this up for a Friday when I work at home so I can drop him off in the AM and pick him up when it's done. He won't need anesthesia for this and it's non invasive so I think it's the best route. I know he has a low grade heart murmur. Has had it for years.

I also asked her to find out cost and whether I can pay via Care Credit. I'll find the money one way or another but need to know what I'm in for. From last May when he was hospitalized for 3 days, trips to the ER vet, regular vet, blood tests, ultrasounds, chest x-rays, medications, inhalers (that was about $800 alone), insulin, supplies, fluids, needles, supplements, special food, etc, etc... it's been thousands of dollars. Not that I'm complaining cause he's worth every penny, but I need to plan for the finances.

Thanks for the info on the CPK, but I'm not really sure what that is or what it signifies. Can you fill me in Karen or Wendy? My vet never really touches on that one too much, if at all.

Hoping he's in better shape when I get home today. Eric was busy with work today, but did manage to get a +2 and +6 for me so I'm grateful for that. No one will be home with him tomorrow. :(

Thanks for your support everyone!! I appreciate it so much!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Donna and Flame said:
CPK, but I'm not really sure what that is or what it signifies. Can you fill me in Karen or Wendy? My vet never really touches on that one too much, if at all.
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It's probably not relevant much and none of Doodles vets believe it is either. When Doodles became the mystery cat (lost regulation), had a very poor appy his CPK was high (in the 1300's). His vet at the time said "it's not like he has heart disease" and didn't think it was relevant. Well, quite the contrary...after the eco Doodles does have severe HCM and CHF so guess it's just a sensitive topic/ test for me personally. All of his other blood work was normal. Below is one explanation of that value. I was hestiatant to mention it but again, it hits a nerve with me so I do look.

[CPK] 56-529 Is an enzyme which is very useful for diagnosing diseases of the heart and skeletal muscle. This enzyme is the first to be elevated after a heart attack (3 to 4 hours). If CPK is high in the absence of heart muscle injury, this is a strong indication of skeletal muscle disease
 
Donna and Flame said:
My vet never really touches on that one too much, if at all.
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Probably because it's low normal and of no concern at all for Flame. I think if it was above range, it's something worth discussing.

Neko had a heart murmur too, and because she was part Maine Coon and acro, that's why I had the first echo. But the murmur at that time was benign or age related. What I was told is that it was more significant if the murmur changed in any way.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Below is one explanation of that value. I was hestiatant to mention it but again, it hits a nerve with me so I do look.
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I'm glad you did mention it Karen. I'm so sorry that they didn't find Doodles HCM and CHF until it was advanced. For me, knowledge is power and I always want to learn and be informed. I hope Flame's heart is OK, but if you didn't mention this Karen, I'd never know to watch it and ask about it, so thank you!!
 
Awww...thank you so much @Doodles & Karen @Bobbie And Bubba @tiffmaxee and @carfurby for your prayers and support and for checking in on us!! Can't tell you how much that means to my 'lil boy and me!!

GOOD NEWS!! His appy is BACK!! And he's making up for lost time!! Was so relieved to come home to empty bowls today. He ate 1/3 can of Weruva ChickenFrickaZee tonite and was asking for more, so I gave him another 1/2 can and he didn't finish it but ate about half of that!! Gave him a couple freeze dried chicken treats after shot and he ate those too!! SO HAPPY!! He looks better tonite. More alert and vocalizing. No idea what happened yesterday but glad to see him looking/acting better tonite.

Going to eat some dinner myself so BBL, but couldn't wait to tell you the good news!!
 
Oh my gosh!! No sooner did I post the good news, we had another breathing episode.

Just as we were about half way thru dinner, he started off sneezing, the sneezing turned to coughing and then to wheezing!! He sounded horrible. I immediately got his Flovent inhaler and he fought me like a banshee. The more he fought the worse his breathing got. I tried 3 times and wasted 3 doses of Flovent and then stopped and gave him a break, but his breathing was really bad. Gave him a little turkey lunch meat as a treat and to calm him down. His breathing sounded bad so I got the Albuterol inhaler. I've never had to use that before. After petting him for a few minutes and calming him down my son and I burritoed him in a towel. He still fought but I managed to get him to take 5 -6 breaths.

I am not sure whether this is the result of coming off the Pred or if it's possible he's allergic to something... ingredient in new food? Phos binder powder? It happened shortly after he ate the Weruva food with the binder. I gave that to him yesterday and this morning too. He's been on the famotadine and Zyrtec for a while, so don't think they have anything to do with it. The only thing different is the food, the binders and the B-12 (but he had that this morning in baby food).
Maybe I'll switch back to FF and see if this happens again.

He scares the crap out of me. Going to email his vet now. Keep those prayers coming please!!
 
+3.5 number doesn't surprise me. He was pretty stressed before with the whole breathing episode and the inhaler. Hoping for a better day tomorrow.

Night night all! Sweet peaceful dreams....:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Donna and Flame said:
His breathing sounded bad so I got the Albuterol inhaler. I've never had to use that before. After petting him for a few minutes and calming him down my son and I burritoed him in a towel. He still fought but I managed to get him to take 5 -6 breaths.

I am not sure whether this is the result of coming off the Pred or if it's possible he's allergic to something... ingredient in new food
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I'm so sorry Donna. I will tell you that Doodles cardiologist insists that cats don't cough because of heart issues/ CHF but rather it's caused by asthma or chronic bronchitis known as "LAD...lower airway disease. Pred is the only sure way of treating asthma or LAD unfortunately. I'm doubtful Flames coughing is food or supplement related. If you have candles, anything scented in the house, remove it. There is a strict no scent rule in my house (no perfume, hairspray, chemicals etc). I clean with vinegar, water, and baking soda. We recently went to the Walnut litter to keep that dust down too. Doodles has only coughed 3 times since the first of the year while in Dec. I thought for sure he wasn't going to make it through some of those episodes.

I hope you do get the echo done this week to rule out anything additional.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
I'm so sorry Donna. I will tell you that Doodles cardiologist insists that cats don't cough because of heart issues/ CHF but rather it's caused by asthma or chronic bronchitis known as "LAD...lower airway disease. Pred is the only sure way of treating asthma or LAD unfortunately. I'm doubtful Flames coughing is food or supplement related. If you have candles, anything scented in the house, remove it. There is a strict no scent rule in my house (no perfume, hairspray, chemicals etc). I clean with vinegar, water, and baking soda. We recently went to the Walnut litter to keep that dust down too. Doodles has only coughed 3 times since the first of the year while in Dec. I thought for sure he wasn't going to make it through some of those episodes.

I hope you do get the echo done this week to rule out anything additional.
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Hi Karen,
Does Doodles have asthma/LAD as well? Is he on Pred? I am tempted to put him back on the Pred. I've been emailing with my vet. She is usually in the office on Wed, but she emailed me last nite saying her husband was admitted to the hospital so she won't be in today. I'm tempted to do it myself. This is so depressing. Some days I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.

One interesting thing I noticed. To entice him to eat, I've been sprinkling chicken "dust" from Halo freeze dried chicken treats on his food. I just did that and he nibbled a little bit and then coughed a little. He's not doing well today. I'll explain more in today's condo.

I don't use anything scented in the house. No candles, I've stopped wearing cologne, don't use scented body lotion, switched to unscented laundry detergent, unscented dish soap, unscented hand soap. I've been using Dr. Elsey's cat litter for a while now b/c it's supposed to be low dust, but I still see dust. What brand is the Walnut litter?

Vet feels like something is triggering these episodes. I'm going to watch him today and see how he does. I asked my boss to work from home again today.
Very worried about my little man. Thanks for always being here to offer support and valuable information Karen. I so appreciate it!!
I have a conf call now, but will get today's condo up afterwards.:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Donna and Flame said:
Does Doodles have asthma/LAD as well? Is he on Pred? I am tempted to put him back on the Pred. I've been emailing with my vet. She is usually in the office on Wed, but she emailed me last nite saying her husband was admitted to the hospital so she won't be in today. I'm tempted to do it myself. This is so depressing. Some days I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle
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Doodles cardiologist after the last emergency visit in Dec. does suspect asthma or LAD because there was no fluid on his xray meaning his CHF is controlled at that time. His CHF is recurrent. Doodles cannot have pred/sterioids or the inhaler because his heart is not strong enough for either of those. I know how you feel with the "loosing battle". Between the heart meds taking a toll on Doodles kidneys and not being able to treat the asthma or LAD our reality is the inevitable. I'm not a vet but if you think the pred was keeping his episodes at bay...if it were me I'd start it again.
 
Was Flame's asthma well-controlled on the pred? Did you wean him off because of the FD? I personally don't have any pred/asthma/FD experience, but there are a few folks here who do, so maybe include that in your subject line so you can get some experienced feedback.

In a nutshell, though, if the pred helped control Flame's asthma, I would keep him on it, and then adjust his insulin dose around the pred. The ability to adjust insulin around other health needs is one of the few "nice" things about diabetes....so that's just something to keep in mind.

Sending along some prayers!!
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Doodles cardiologist after the last emergency visit in Dec. does suspect asthma or LAD because there was no fluid on his xray meaning his CHF is controlled at that time. His CHF is recurrent. Doodles cannot have pred/sterioids or the inhaler because his heart is not strong enough for either of those. I know how you feel with the "loosing battle". Between the heart meds taking a toll on Doodles kidneys and not being able to treat the asthma or LAD our reality is the inevitable. I'm not a vet but if you think the pred was keeping his episodes at bay...if it were me I'd start it again.
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This is such an emotional roller coaster. One day he's doing really well, seems content, alert, vocalizing, up and active, breathing well, eating well and then everything can change in a matter of hours or a day. My heart goes out to you and the Doodlebug Karen. Dealing with multiple health issues with our sweet ones is REALLY hard. I keep you and the Doods in my thoughts and prayers all the time. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Donna and Flame said:
This is such an emotional roller coaster. One day he's doing really well, seems content, alert, vocalizing, up and active, breathing well, eating well and then everything can change in a matter of hours or a day
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It is Donna. They tell me our kitties don't know they have these conditions. Wish I didn't know either. You're doing everything for Flame and enjoy those good days. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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