2/20 -Newbie; advice needed; suddenly high numbers after several decent ones

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Megan & Oren

Megan & Oren

Member Since 2015
Hi all; I had been posting in the main health section, but was advised to post here for more specific advise/ help. I don't know all the lingo well yet, but my spreadsheet has been updated with relevant info. Only about a month into diagnosis.

I've only had 2 successful BG tests myself, after a 5 day stretch of a vet tech pet sitter doing them for me. The last 4 numbers before my own were in 200s and even a 174 last night. As you can see, this a.m, he went to 493 and tonight, 552?!? :arghh: I was away at training today and unable to do midday testing. I did pad tests, the tech had done ear tests. I simply wasn't able to get ear samples on my own. Oren was extremely fidgety and fussy during both tests today, which perhaps spiked his number some?
it has also been suggested he may be 'bouncing' from being in a stretch of lower numbers for a while? but these numbers are so much worse than what was happening previously, I'm frustrated and worried? Current dosing is lantus 2units/2x day.
 
glad to see you over here....
well we definitely need more data..... it's the only way to really decipher what's going on.....

but ...
imho, those highs are likely bounces....
we just don't know if he bounced in response to a green number..... and we don't know how low of a green number..... it could be a safe low..... and it could also be a dangerous low.

that's my gut talking....

I think we need that data.... because it could very well be that he's earning a dose reduction .... and if he's doing the low to high bouncy thing.... you are going to have a hard time
figuring it out without that data.
And you certainly don't want him going too low.....
 
no , not necessarily every two hours....

but you do want to get some occasional sleep tests.....
you set an alarm and grab a test.... ( it will get easier with time and practice)

if you get up to go to the bathroom.... grab one in the night...
an out the door test.... and in the door test....
you just try to get more tests when you can so you can catch the lows......

there are some here who have medical conditions and they just have to find their own rhythms with work, health, and life..... and grab tests whenever they can.
even a +11 give you some indication of whether he's going up or down at shot time test.

the alternative is you could have a hypo..... not all cats show any signs so you can't rely that you are sitting there watching them and if they only show signs when they are lower than 20 , you are scrambling for a very expensive er visit.

that data will help you manage and know when to lower the dose.....
 
right now I'm wondering if i gave a fur shot tonight, though I certainly didn't feel any wet; he has had a lot to drink since dinner/shot, and seems kind of low energy. I will try and test again soon
 
just don't shoot again..... fur shots happen, and we all hate them, but if some got in, you don't know how much....

looking forward to seeing more data....

we'll get Oren feeling better.

mine always fell into a very deep sleep ( deeper than ever) after her test/feed/shoot.... so much she'd be twitching....
 
Hello and welcome. How much does Oren weight? What is his ideal weight? Our starting dose for Lantus is based on kitties weight. We increase in .25U increments so that jump to 2U may have been too much.

Many people can't get tests during the day, so they get the odd test at night and used the weekends to figure out how a dose is doing.

If you give a fur shot (one of my specialities :oops:) you should smell insulin at the injection site. I suspect he's just bouncing and feeling off due to the high numbers.
 
Hi! I know that back in Sep at his annual exam (pre diagnosis, and pre symptoms), he was just under 10 lbs and the vet wanted him to drop about 1/2 a lb. He's not a big guy. At diagnosis a month ago he weighed in at about 8.8 lbs. and vet thought that was decent. At the dosage increase date, 10 days later, had gone down to about 8.2- 8.3. I don't have a baby scale at home, but since then at home, (weighing myself, then me holding him) I'm getting 8.4. Seems to be holding at this weight, as I increased his food.

He's never had an obesity problem really, in fact, he has had more trouble keeping weight on due to a bullying sibling sister who would eat more quickly and muscle him out of the way for his. This was back when I was unknowingly poisoning them both w/ dry kibble. I travel a lot, about every other month, and so I had a an auto feeder. (GUILT GUILT GUILT).

Yes, I know not to give another shot if a fur shot happens.

I understand that here you all are more conservative w/ dose changes; my vet went the full unit increase due to extremely high BG numbers in his office; but i certainly feel that some of those numbers were stress affected. I'm due to take him in next wk. for a nadir test (+5) and a fructosamine, based on the vets seeing the numbers my pet sitter got. But now these 'bouncy' ones have me worried?!
 
Vet stress can definitely increase the numbers (depending on the cat). My diabetic kitty doesn't see any impact, but my non diabetic one once tested about 150 more at the vet than at home the next day.

Depending on whether are following the Tight Regulation protocol or the Start Low Go Slow method here, we would have started Oren on either 1 unit or .5 unit. In both cased, the next increase would be by .25U, unless nadirs were above 300, but you had that 247. Can you try getting some before bed tests at home or some mid cycle checks this weekend? They'll be much more realistic than tests at the clinic. Once you can do a bit more home testing, you can also do away with fructosamines.
 
oof. well, just got a +5 test; 275. I guess it wasn't a complete fur shot. This one was an ear prick, after a non-successful pad prick. Poor thing, sure getting poked alot. I went to a 28 gauge lancet (from a 30) on recommendations of others. Not sure I have the stamina (or him) to stay up for another test tonight. But I will try another AMPS.
 
Hi Megen, good job home testing Oren! Do you have Neosporin with pain relief? 28 gauges the way to go- soon his ears will learn how to bleed and it won't be as much of an effort. Do you have low carb treats? Please give treats even if you are not successful getting a test-after awhile Oren will let you know he wants to be tested! :smuggrin::smuggrin:
 
Hi Ruth; yup, i used neosporin on both the pad (which i successfully tested on for AMPS and PMPS) and the ear tonight. He gets the Halo freeze dried chicken treats. we'd been trying for a while w/ the 30 gauge, and it just wasn't working for me. My vet tech pet sitter could do it, but i only got 1 test! Hopefully now the 28 will help. I guess I may alternate b/n foot and ear?
 
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morning all!! Another successful ear test! Huge thanks to Vyktors Mum for recommending the 28 gauge lancets!!! This morning, AMPS he is 167. Still safe to shoot? Last night at +5 he was 275 coming off the PMPS high of 552.
 
You should be safe to shoot providing you can get some early tests this morning. Whenever you're shooting lower than you usually shoot, you should start by getting a +2 (or sometimes earlier) test. Do you have a supply of strips and high carb food on hand? You also need to be prepared in case Oren's numbers drop.
 
i can give a +2 I believe. Just bought 100 strips and have 4 cans of FF gravy food. So, how far COULD he drop at +2? the drop from the screaming high 552 yesterday at PMPS to +5 275 was about 50%. Then, from that 275 to 167 this a.m.
 
ECID (Every Cat Is Different). They generally drop a lot faster when starting in the higher numbers.
His breakfast will help to slow any drop at first. You want to keep him a little hungry, in case you need him to eat later.
 
It depends on the +2 number. I would post that number and ask the question again.

If he's 167 now and 125 at +2, then we may suggest you test again at +3
If he's 167 now and 350 at +2, then you can probably wait until +5
 
It will get easier.
I would test again at +4.
The data gathering is really helpful to you, to help Oren get to the best insulin dose for him.
 
poor guy seems worn out by this and because of failed jabs, I feel like I'm really working his ears and feet hard. trying to find a not already stabbed place not easy
 
Sorry to hear you were having so much trouble with the testing. I see that someone recommend a 28 gauge lancet, could I ask what you were using before? When I first started testing my problem was that I poking right through the ear and not able to get any blood, but once I raised up the lancet so it was the highest setting it worked much better for us. Once you find what works for you stick with it, or occasionally try different methods to see if you find something that works better. I am currently using 33 gauge lancets because I use a micro meter and only need a very small bit of blood for the test. So far it seems to be working well for us, but we have had several years of testing to perfect it. Hope you have continued success with testing, other than the insulin shots testing is the most important thing about managing diabetes.
 
You're doing such a great job Megan. Look at you go, soon it will be a breeze :) I don't know if you would do the same for a paw (I've never tested that way) but after you've taken an ear test hold the spot you tested with some light pressure for 30-60 seconds to help prevent bruising. Their ears are generally pretty tough and take all the testing well. I once tested Vyktor 22 times in one day all from the same ear so I must have hit the same spot numerous times and no worries.

Little Oren is quite likely a bit worn out from his BG being up and down too.
 
WOW, 22 times?! I don't think I'D survive that! yes, it's very sad, I just want him to feel better. I know this ultimately is good data to get, but its hard on both of us! nevertheless, he stays sweet and doesn't seem to hold a grudge (yet!). Just ordered some Pure Bite chicken treats (almost out of Halo version and they're more expensive).
 
If no one has mentioned this, every time you test -- whether the test is successful or not -- give Oren a treat. The idea is to have him associate testing with something positive. FWIW, the treat doesn't have to be food. One member's cat LOVED to be brushed. Every time she tested, her kitty got some brushing. You'll be amazed at how some cats will go running to their test spot because of the positive reinforcement. Of course, I suspect they go running because they are getting attention and seem to know that what you're doing is helping them to feel better.

The reason for getting a +2 or +3 test is that if the numbers are substantially lower than your pre-shot test number, there's a good chance that it will be an active cycle -- numbers may keep dropping. If that's the case, it's your cue to test more frequently so you steer the cycle with food.
 
just got a slightly difficult +4, and it was 90!! ear first, not enough, then paw again. lots of treats and cuddles, but a squeak at the paw prick :(
so recap: AMPS 167, +2-210, +4-90
should i give him anything? that's a reasonably safe number, right? Gonna try again at +6 if he'll let me, this one was even a bit more difficult...
 
recap: AMPS 167, +2-210, +4-90 +6- 97 (this after about 1/8th can of FF can at about +5.5). I think I'll give him and me a break until PMPS at this point? Green!!
 
scroll down to the picture of the ear http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-test.htm
are you pricking near the sweet spots?
there is lots of info there with suggestions on testing..... but a picture is worth ......


and green.....
now we can see that he has likely been visiting the green floor..... so if that's true, he will bounce back up again .
that data is just like a picture.....


You are doing Great!
 
couldn't help myself, did a +8, 154. 1 ear prick only!
recap: AMPS 167, +2-210, +4-90 +6- 97 +8- 154. guess I'll try the +10 and PMPS for a full 12 hour cycle. First time ever. but tomorrow, most likely can only do AMPS, +5 or 6 and maybe a couple in afternoon...
 
+10.5 - 196
one more at PMPS then we're off for the night! SO proud of him (and a little of myself) we actually got a 12 hr. curve today (assuming I get PMPS!). This one also was a single ear prick. Sorry to be out of the green, but blue is pretty decent too I hope. Curious what pre-shot will be...

thanks to everyone for the help, encouragement etc. :bighug: It REALLY helps :cat:
 
poopie; another mini bounce at PMPS? 314... a little more trouble getting this one too. oh well. I think we're both done for the night. though I should probably try at +5 again, I can't promise I'll be awake for it...
 
The poking gets addictive doesn't it ;) you should be really really proud of yourself too, I am bursting with delight for you here :) that was a very pretty cycle and we're getting some idea of where nadir may be. the PMPS bounce is not unexpected after those lovely greens. If you're falling asleep before +5 just take one before you go to bed.
 
Thank YOU especially Vyktors Mum, your suggestion for the 28 gauge probably saved the day. I'm still not completely fluid w/the whole thing, but this was a good experience, probably for both of us. and my pet sitter set the stage by doing several days in advance of me, so he got some experience too. as I type, he's laying beside me w/ his head on my lap and the edge of the laptop. I do so love this little guy. They're so resilient and forgiving.
 
I'll swear they know we're helping them :cat: glad to have been of service, I love seeing it all start to come together :)
 
damn and blast. i think he really couldn't take another one, but i had to try: +5 at this hour, several sticks,
one test strip seemed to fail; just didn't read. Had to stick again, and finally 370. more bounce? or more stress.
I can't stay up longer, I'm exhausted. :banghead:
 
Hi Megan, Hey- you are doing a fantastic job with the testing,especially since it is very late for you to be up- congrats!! Give Oren a big hug and a treat! That 370 is just a bounce from the greens he had this morning--it too will pass! Nighty night! :bighug:
 
Slept right to alarm, that hasn't happened much lately. Bad bounce, AMPS 462.
?? are bounces per cycle only or is this an ongoing thing across days? i know i don't have lots of data prior to this, but this is a vert high AMPS of late, And wht is etiquette about a thread like this? Do I start a new one each day? just keep going here? so hard to stay positive with so much flux in these numbers
 
Yes, we usually have one condo (thread) per kitty, per day. And we try to encourage you to copy the link (url address) to this condo to the first post in your new condo. That way people can read back through the days preceding.
 
Don't focus on the yucky bounce AMPS focus on the gorgeous green that's responsible for it :D the numbers will settle down in due course. Bounces can last up to three days - six cycles. The more time a kitty spends in normal cat numbers the shorter and lower the bounces get.
 
Megan - as for ear poking this advice helped me a lot in the beginning and I still use it sometimes. Fill the toe of a panty hose or sock with rice and tie it off to make a small rice sock. Warm it slightly in the microwave and place on the ear for 15-20 seconds to warm up the ear. Then make sure you have firm pressure on the other side of the ear when you stick it.

If your cat will let you, straddle him from behind with his head facing forward and put a towel in front of him so he cant dash off, so he is wedged in. Give hims some love and kisses before starting to chill him out.

Now when my cat sees me coming with meter he just sits down and assumes the position. I think he actually like it.
 
looking at the data we have now....

he bounced to red from a nice green middle number..... the day before he bounced to black..... which probably meant there was a lower green number ......

he's clearing the bounces fairly quickly, just a day later.....


and then look at yesterday, he went from that yellow 210 to 90 in two hours..... so you can't be complacent with him in yellow numbers.....


this information is really helpful.
 
I was basing on that yesterday's yellow saw green 2 hours later and then quickly started upward.....

you want to catch the low numbers to see how low he's going...... just in case, he's working on a dose reduction..... ( under 50) 49 is as low as he needs to go...
 
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