2/20 Bear+4 is 104 yea!!

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BettyL

Member Since 2013
Hi everyone-Last night was a little rough but we all survived. Thanks again to Marje for all her help. I learned something last night, because I was ready to whip out the can of high carb wet, but Marje had me stick with the lc which make sense as long as it does the trick which it did.

I'm a little confused on what is going on with Bear's numbers. Why are her amps numbers so high now. She was consistently in the blue for quite a few days and now she higher. What makes her plunge so drastically to go down 200 points in 4 hours. Jill said not to worry about the higher numbers after what happened last night so I guess the 323 tonight was no surprise.

I have been locking Bear in the bathroom while I'm gone for work. She is in there 12 hours. I don't have a timed feeder yet so I have been leaving her frozen wet food ice cubes. I have been giving her 4 of them. I put 2 in one dish and 2 in another. I just don't know how long they last through out the day. Are they melted and gone in a matter of hours? She was licking them when I left her this morning. It seems like she drinks a lot more and fills the litter box with a lot more urine than when she is not locked in the bathroom. I know she is with 9 other cats so it is hard to monitor her input and output, but I have never seen a litter box soaked like it was tonight even with all the cats using them .

Is it ok to feed Bear a whole 5.5oz can of lc Fancy Feast when I get home after testing and before her shot. If her bg is already 323, then won't feeding her a lot make it go even higher? I'm sure Bear would disagree that a can is too much at one time because she snarfs it down.
I didn't know it it would be better to give her her ration of food through out the night, rather than 1 can at shot time and 1/2 can at pretest +4. But I won't be able to that during the day unless I get the timed feeder.

I don't mind being aggressive in trying to get bear into remission. I'm not sure how many nights in a row of getting 4 1/2 hours of sleep I can handle though. What makes it tough for us is that we have to give her the pm shot at 7:00. We had to work over tonight so she didn't get her shot until 7:30 tonight. The part of all this that bothers me the most is not testing during the day. Did what happen last night happen during the day when I wasn't home? Hopefully, the .10 dose won't cause such a large drop. I read somewhere that a cat averaging a 200bg is a lot healthier if it has 200 every day rather than 100 one day and 300 the next. Bear seems to be bouncing around a lot. I know what a bounce is but how do you know if that is what is actyually happening.

I faxed my vet a letter yesterday and asked her to call me today to talk about Bear being back on insulin, but I didn't hear from her. I hope she just got too busy and didn't just decide not to call. At least she knows I put Bear back on insulin and I'm not going behind her back.

Thanks for all the advise and support.
Betty
 
Re: 2/20 Bear pspm 323

Evening Betty
I have this feeder and you can usually find one on the shelf at petsmart.
The only part about it I don't like is it has 48 hours on the dial (too much for me ) but it workswell and you can divvy up portions... you could either put two
separate servings in it or a treat in the second one...
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2751313&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No

It would be good if you could set Bear up to eat as you leave , and then somewhere in the middle so that when you get home and it's shot time again... you won't have a food influenced number...
It's good for them not to have eaten 2 hours before shot at the very minimum... 3 or 4 hours would be even better...
 
Re: 2/20 Bear pspm 323

BettyL said:
Hi everyone-Last night was a little rough but we all survived. Thanks again to Marje for all her help. I learned something last night, because I was ready to whip out the can of high carb wet, but Marje had me stick with the lc which make sense as long as it does the trick which it did.
Click to expand...
Believe it or not, this is a great thing for you to realize! Now you know that even if Bear does drop to the 50s when you are not home, all it takes is a little low carb food for her to keep herself in safe numbers. Since you are leaving her with food, and since you know she is eating that food, you know she can manage her own numbers.

I'm a little confused on what is going on with Bear's numbers. Why are her amps numbers so high now. She was consistently in the blue for quite a few days and now she higher. What makes her plunge so drastically to go down 200 points in 4 hours. Jill said not to worry about the higher numbers after what happened last night so I guess the 323 tonight was no surprise.
Click to expand...
When the numbers drop quickly or drop into numbers lower than the cat is used to, the body can respond by dumping counterregulatory hormones and glucagon into the system. It sounds scary, but it is normal, especially for cats that haven't been on insulin very long. The hormones will clear out on their own, but it can take up to 72 hours. The "bounces" will get lower and shorter as time goes on, as the cat gets used to spending more and more time in lower numbers. It's all part of the process, but it is definitely disappointing when you see your cat get into great healing numbers, then all of a sudden they are high again. That's why we try to warn people to expect it. ;-)

I have been locking Bear in the bathroom while I'm gone for work. She is in there 12 hours. I don't have a timed feeder yet so I have been leaving her frozen wet food ice cubes. I have been giving her 4 of them. I put 2 in one dish and 2 in another. I just don't know how long they last through out the day. Are they melted and gone in a matter of hours? She was licking them when I left her this morning. It seems like she drinks a lot more and fills the litter box with a lot more urine than when she is not locked in the bathroom. I know she is with 9 other cats so it is hard to monitor her input and output, but I have never seen a litter box soaked like it was tonight even with all the cats using them .
Click to expand...
She may be soaking the litter box today because of the high numbers. I always noticed an increase in urine output when my cats were over 200. That should improve as her numbers go back down.

Is it ok to feed Bear a whole 5.5oz can of lc Fancy Feast when I get home after testing and before her shot. If her bg is already 323, then won't feeding her a lot make it go even higher? I'm sure Bear would disagree that a can is too much at one time because she snarfs it down. I didn't know it it would be better to give her her ration of food through out the night, rather than 1 can at shot time and 1/2 can at pretest +4. But I won't be able to that during the day unless I get the timed feeder.
Click to expand...
It's always helpful for diabetics to be able to spread their food out rather than eating very large meals (human diabetics too). I know you're physically in a different location than she is, so do whatever makes sense for you. The foodsickles sound like they are working during the day, so that's an idea, or giving her part of her meal later. I basically free-fed both of my diabetic cats - in the morning I put out all the food at once, and in the evening I put out about 2/3 of the food at shot time and another 1/3 at bedtime. They both were little piggies and ate the majority of what I put out right way, but they did usually have a little left over for grazing. Of course if they were dropping, I fed additional snacks to help them surf in safe numbers. Some cats are more sensitive to carbs than Lucy or Jazzy were, so that strategy doesn't work for everybody. I've seen cats here go up a hundred points or more just from their meal, so those cats would definitely benefit from smaller meals. I would start by doing what is easiest for you, and if it turns out to not work for Bear we can talk about trying something different.

I don't mind being aggressive in trying to get bear into remission. I'm not sure how many nights in a row of getting 4 1/2 hours of sleep I can handle though. What makes it tough for us is that we have to give her the pm shot at 7:00. We had to work over tonight so she didn't get her shot until 7:30 tonight. The part of all this that bothers me the most is not testing during the day. Did what happen last night happen during the day when I wasn't home? Hopefully, the .10 dose won't cause such a large drop. I read somewhere that a cat averaging a 200bg is a lot healthier if it has 200 every day rather than 100 one day and 300 the next. Bear seems to be bouncing around a lot. I know what a bounce is but how do you know if that is what is actyually happening.
Click to expand...
I think I already addressed most of these questions, but if I missed something just ask again. I do think the 0.1 unit dose will be less dramatic for her and should be very safe. It's barely any insulin, but it is definitely enough to make a difference. The hope is that this small dose will help her stabilize in flat numbers, which will allow her pancreas to heal.

For what it's worth, while obviously nobody can make any promises, I don't think your vet is far off the mark in suggesting that Bear is trying to heal herself. I think she probably is and hopefully it won't take long at all before she gets there.
 
Re: 2/20 Bear pspm 323

Isn't Fancy Feast in 3 oz cans?

You pre-shot numbers are high because Bear "bounced." What this means is that Bear's body became used to hanging out in diabetic BG levels. Those diabetic numbers became his new "normal." When he drops into what are truly normal numbers, his liver and pancreas panic thinking that these numbers are dangerous. As a result, they pump out a stored form of glucose (glucagon) and counterregulatory hormones. These have the effect of spiking BG numbers up. It can take 72 hours more or less for numbers to come down. FWIW, this is a pretty normal response. The more time Bear spends in normal numbers, the more the curve will flatten out and there will be less bouncing.

You don't want to feed 2 hours before shot time. If you should feed, there's the possibility that the food will inflate your pre-shot numbers and you won't know whether or not it's safe to shoot. (The only exception is if numbers are below 50.) Most of us test, feed, then shoot. I test Gabby and when her head goes into her food bowl, she gets her shot. The entire process takes me less than 5 min. Again, in general, if it's possible, it's best to feed several small meals. The smaller portions don't overwhelm a healing pancreas. Remember, when food stimulates the pancreas, if it's working, the pancreas then produces insulin. If you give a lot of food, the pancreas has to work harder.

Food does make numbers rise -- usually. However, you're also giving insulin which makes numbers go down. ideally, the insulin wins.

You're fine if you're shooting within 30 min of your usual time. For any of us that work, it can be nerve wracking to leave our kitties. If you have any flexibility, giving yourself some time to get a +1 or a +2 in the morning may help. If that's not possible, then leaving food out is your best option.

Of course it would be wonderful if our kitties would comply with the plan of keeping their numbers in a food range and not deviating from a narrow window. However, they're cats and they refuse to read the rule book. And even if they did read it, they tend to have minds of their own.
 
Thanks for all the advise and suggestions tonight. Bear's +4 was 104 which I think is pretty good, but correct me if I'm wrong. May actually get to bed before 1:00am !!!
Thanks again!
Betty
 
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