2/13 Jax- Again! Another sleepless night!! Craziness!!

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You should breathe now! You guys are doing great!

I think you are out of scary town, but I would be vigilant until he hits close to 100 (that is what I do). I say that because I don’t know how long this insulin will last and you are only at +6.
My guess he is more insulin sensitive since he went low last night. That is why I wanted you to ask your vet about Jax’s next shot.
 
I know you guys are worried that Jax won’t continue to eat, and that is good, you should be aware of that, we may need him to eat later. But, I think at some point you might want to get some higher carb food in there. Food will last longer than the honey or gravy. You can give him just a little.
 
+6.5 is still 56. No movement. I will take that as a good sign. At least he is not doing down. Dh is holding all food, etc at this point just in case we need to fire up the jets again. Thank you so much Donna and everyone that stayed "watched silently". You have no idea how much I appreciate everything. :YMHUG:

He is going to give it 30 mins and retest. Hope that # is higher but not on the moon from all the gravy. What a balancing act. Must give him a big hug when I get home. He did well.
 
donnahc said:
I know you guys are worried that Jax won’t continue to eat, and that is good, you should be aware of that, we may need him to eat later. But, I think at some point you might want to get some higher carb food in there. Food will last longer than the honey or gravy. You can give him just a little.
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Thinking...perhaps we should hold off on food for the 30 mins? Jax doesn't usually turn down food as he's a Hoover as well...so my DH telling me he was losing interest was not the norm. Thinking if we hold for 30 mins he may regain interest if we need it.
 
No worries momma. It happens to all of us and it’s nice we can be here for each other. I am working at my desk this afternoon so glad I "stopped by”.
I will PM you my email addy and cell phone. I am gonna stay here signed in for ya, but if I spaz and don’t refresh or something, you know you can get me.

If Jax goes high from the gravy, it probably won’t last long. At this point a little high doesn’t sound so bad ;)

I’m here so ping me as needed.

(((((hugs)))))
 
I think holding off for 30 mins for food is fine. You are going to continue to test so you will know where he’s at. If he drops some, you can feed some then, and you can mix the food and gravy too.
 
Good Job, both of you and DH! I truly am shocked at this cycle, given the reduction in the dose. I would skip the next cycle and let everything clear.
 
I am thinking that too KIm. That is why I thought it might be good if Lisa talked it over with the vet and asked what folks thought here.
Jax is probably very insulin sensitive right now.
 
Wow! Great job Lisa and Donna. I had a meeting this am and missed the excitement. DH did great too.

Wonder if they have reformatted ProZinc? It seems more potent for several kitties.

Lisa, I think you just need to start thinking about dosing real conservatively for a few cycles and see how he does. These are good problems to have.
 
Better than down, and now you are starting to get thru that nadir time. He may just cruise right on thru his ps time too. You are testing so you’ll know.
 
The thing I think we need to remember when you see a low preshot is that the kitty may not only be low because they had low numbers the previous cycle, but also that they are getting a long duration out of the insulin. To me, that means 2 variables to consider and reason to be extra cautious with dosing. The other complication is to be sure they sure rising ( which Jax was) Makes those 200 and below preshots more complicated.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Lisa, I think you just need to start thinking about dosing real conservatively for a few cycles and see how he does. These are good problems to have.
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Scary thing is where to start? I have NO data to support anything. What if he flips out on .3? My brain hurts.. ohmygod_smile

Will see what vet suggets and roll with it.
 
Ok. just got off ph with vet. Says he may be flirting with remission (anti jinx) Told me to shoot .5 tonight and that even non-diabetic cats should be able to tolerate .5u of the juice. Not sure how accurate that is from looking at some of the kitties on FDMB. I asked her, "What if he is under 200? Should I still shoot?" She said yes, if he has eaten to shoot. Then said if he goes low tonight again, then to skip the AM shot and to call her.

I don't think I'm shooting anything under 200. I don't think I can stomach that one. She tried to reassure me it was okay but...I don't think my nerves can take it.

Edited to add: DH just tested. he is at 82. Thank Goodness!
 
You hold the needle Lisa. You have to shoot what you feel comfortable with. If .5 makes you nervous, shoot less. I personally would not shoot Jax under 200.

And, you probably need some sleep tonight....oh that.... :shock:
 
IMHO, I can't imagine saying that a non diabetic cat could handle .5 units. That would be like saying it would be okay for someone to give you a unit or two of insulin when you are not a diabetic. Why would anyone do that? He hypoed today on .8 There is only a minute difference between .8 and .5

He could bounce with all the carbs but we are firm about not shooting a bounce. It doesn't work well.

Agree with Donna. You have the needle. I would skip tonight - this is 2 hypos the last 2 cycles. His body needs time to adjust back to a normal place.

Besides, it's time for some sleep for this household!
 
Yeah, if Jax were my kitty I think I would skip tonight too. He might go high for you by tomorrow, but the good seems to outweigh the bad on skipping for tonight.
You get some time for this to clear his body, you don’t risk going low one more time, you wouldn’t shoot a bounce anyway, you and DH get some sleep so you can think clearly tomorrow.
What do others think?
 
Very true. Will see what the # looks like. If he is in the 400's from a rebound I may have to give something. Although it won't be .5, more like a token.
 
Yes. Sev came to mind. That's why I questioned the accuracy of that info. She said that by all accounts a non-diabetic cat should not be adversly affected by .5u. She was very clear in saying that you could give a non-diabetic .5u without any ill effects. She was adamant about that nugget of info when I pressed her.

You are right. What is the difference between .5 and .8? Pffft. About to call it a day here and pack things up. Will update Jax's numbers when I get home. Once again, I THANK YOU ALL!! :YMHUG:
 
I concur. When Gray's 24 hr marathon sessions were going, and I was thinking about needing to shoot him at 3 am, I got wisdom from the board to get some sleep and just do his shot in the morning. I slept, he slept, and his numbers weren't much different in the morning than on other mornings. It was good for all of us. And following his marathon session, we got a second one - this time on half the dosage.

You've had a heckuva roller coaster - and you rolled with the punches beautifully. Time to get off the ride, get some rest, take care of yourselves, and heed the wisdom we seek and find here. Keep up the good work!

Lu-Ann
 
Great job to you, DH and Jax, of course. WOW! What craziness the last day or so.

I agree with the others, GET SOME SLEEP! There will be a new day tomorrow.

Lori
 
Good job everyone!!!!

So your vet want's him to hypo 3 times before you skip the next shot :shock: .

We have talked alot about the potency of the new vial, I have never seen a new vial be THAT much more potent, I'm starting to wonder if it might not be the potency but his P is kicking back in.

There is a strange correlation between hypo and OTJ around here for some cats. They experience a hypo and shortly afterwards they go OTJ. It happened to Harley right before he went into remission. I think their P starts working again without us knowing we shoot the insulin and whammo.

So I think that skipping the shot tonight would be good for many reasons, you and DH get a night off for a job well done and to get some rest and it will give Jax some time to process out the carbs and to see if maybe his P is working again.

Remember that it takes a few or more cycles for the liver panick to wear off.
 
Evening everyone.

Just a quick update:
+9 112
Skipped +10 as he is clearly out of the danger zone but will get a PMPS. He needs a break. Everyone made some valid arguments for skipping the dose. I was worried about skipping the dose and giving .5 tomorrow without knowing what the .5 would do. Would even .5 bring him into a hypo situation? Tomorrow there will be no one home to save the day. If he's over 400 at PMPS do I give the .5 a test run as I will be home to observe and collect the data or do I hold back on the shot and gamble tomorrow? So many variables...

Robin, you made a very valid point...I need to see if Mr. P is on board or if we have a crazy batch of PZ and the only way to do that is by skipping the shot.

Not sure what tomorrow will bring, or what to shoot, but I hope to figure it out by then. :?
 
It is so hard to say what is going on, today's hypo came out of left field. The other really odd thing is that he's not zooming up from all the carbs.

I shutter to think about what might have happened if your DH hadn't decided to stay home today.
 
Rob & Harley said:
I shutter to think about what might have happened if your DH hadn't decided to stay home today.
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Me too...which is why I think I need to change direction. Hear me out...thinking it makes more sense to shoot tonight, say .4, half the dose that wrecked havoc today and NOT to shoot tomorrow as no one will be here if something were to happen. Doing it this way allows me to monitor him on .4 overnight and it gives me a peace of mind that I will not come home to something terrible because I will skip the AM dose.

Thoughts...? Anyone?

+11 was 256
PMPS 333
Thinking about .4.
 
I don't know , Lisa. It makes me nervous. He doesn't seem to have bounced from all the carbs, which is a little strange in itself.

I hope Robin will weigh in. If you are determined to shoot, I guess I would rather see a token dose like .1 or .2. But truefully, I'd rather see you skip and we'll deal with tomorrow, tomorrow.
 
I am with Sue, if you are going to shoot, it would be a very small token dose. Today was such a surprise, I have never seen that type of reduction, have that type of impact on a rising number. But, I understand your logic in shooting tonight vs. tomorrow also.
 
Sue, you know I respect your opinion. I'm nervous too as I'd rather not deal with tomorrow, tomorrow as I won't be home to do anything about it. Oh gosh...what to do...

Can do a token of .2 and skip tomorrow. I am hesitant to the AM dose. Dreading giving him anything and I'm not home. Today just threw me for a loop.
 
I've been wringing my hands over this one.

That 333 is probably the start of a bounce from the second hypo numbers.

I understand your thought process but I just can't endorse a dose for tonight.

It's up to you, you now have plenty of experience with hypo's to handle it if you want to go for it tonight.

I personally wouldn't do it.
 
I understand your hesitation about tomorrow. But the possibility of low numbers tonight is scary too. I haven't seen a kitty hypo two cycles in a row and I am not confident about how that impacts their next few cycles.

You hold the syringe. But if you shoot anything, get some tests in.
 
Thanks to all for weighing in. I really appreciate it. Going to wait till +13 to get him up a little higher and shoot .2. I simply cannot bring myself to shoot tomorrow without being home. That just isn't an option for me in lieu of today's events.


Going to collect data tonight, skip am, and collect data tomorrow night. I feel much better going into a shot when I have 2 cycles of trying to figure out what is happening than shooting without having any idea tomorrow.

Thanks you all, this community is simply the best. Hands down.
 
Lisa,

I'm sure the decision on what to do was hard. But sounds like you have a good plan.

Praying for you and Jax! It will get better. Tomorrow is a new day! Give hubby an extra hug for Valentines Day from Jax!

Lori
 
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