? 2/11 Cleo AMPS=401 Feeding canned food. #'s look better

Cleocatra

Cleocatra

Member Since 2020
She's liking the canned food + we're giving her some drained tuna as snack. Mixing about 3 tbsp's of dry DM to w/ the wet food to not do a cold turkey change. Last time we did that, she had bad upset stomach, needed famotidine & another upset GI pill for a week and thought just to stay w/ dry. Have an appt w/ VCA Animal Diagnostic Clinic in Dallas this Thursday morning.
Goal is to stop the neuropathy so she stops pooping all over herself.
 
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I'm glad she is liking the canned. It makes it much easier.
Great documenting in the remarks column of the SS about the food transition.!
I'm assuming you are using Lantus as you are posting in the Lantus forum....can you confirm that please and put Lantus in the signature so we all know thanks :bighug:
Is there any reason why you are giving 5 units am and 4 units pm?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I'm glad she is liking the canned. It makes it much easier.
Great documenting in the remarks column of the SS about the food transition.!
I'm assuming you are using Lantus as you are posting in the Lantus forum....can you confirm that please and put Lantus in the signature so we all know thanks :bighug:
Is there any reason why you are giving 5 units am and 4 units pm?
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The vet started us at 1U am & pm for about 6 weeks. Drinking and peeing was out of control. So she ramped us up every 4 wks or so since Aug. We're up to 5U am & 4U pm. We never tested her, nor did the vet say to test her until late Dec. I think this was very reckless now that I look back. Taking Cleo to diagnostic clinic Thurs. referred by my vet. I'm really beginning to believe my vet is clueless- should've listened to some other cat people 2 months ago.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Thanks for putting together the spreadsheet. Here is the link to your previous post, for some background. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-worried-bg-s-too-high-not-responding.225402/

Bron asked an excellent question. With the dosing methods we use here, we find it best to give the same dose AM and PM.
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Just doing what the vet was telling me. Kinda hit & miss I think, but who am I to argue w/ a Dr?? Well, from what I've learned in here, my vet needs s'more schoolin'!!!
 
My vet told me I could do the same too. :stop: I didn’t pay attention cause I listened to people here for dosing. Different doses day and night can work with the non depot insulins.
 
I think your vet has no idea about feline diabetes at all. I would look for a new vet.
Unfortunately no guarantee that the diagnostic clinic will know any more than your vet. Feline diabetes is not a disease that many vets have kept up to date with.
Remember you are your cats advocate and you are definitely entitled to ask questions and disagree with what your vet says, if you are not comfortable with their decisions/advice. You are paying the bills.
The best thing you can do for Cleo is to get her onto a canned low carb diet...which you are doing. Test the BG levels....which you are doing. And adjust the insulin as needed....having a SS will make this much easier and we can help you there.
You are giving a great insulin for cats (lantus).
I would change the dose of insulin so that you are giving the same dose night and morning. Lantus like consistency.
@Wendy&Neko do you thing go up to 5 units or down to 4 units?
 
When you see my SS, I don't have AM ++ except for AMPS. That's usually at 7am before I leave for work. My wife hasn't learned to do BG tests yet. I didn't give her any dry food today and see if PMPS is lower at 6pm. I've got Zobaline on order but I can't administer before our appt tomorrow. Need to get those back legs stronger.
Random question: Is there a condition where a cat just cannot have dry food due to grains causing weight gain, diabetic symptoms, bloating and other bad stuff??? Kinda like humans being gluten or lactose intolerant?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I think your vet has no idea about feline diabetes at all. I would look for a new vet.
Unfortunately no guarantee that the diagnostic clinic will know any more than your vet. Feline diabetes is not a disease that many vets have kept up to date with.
Remember you are your cats advocate and you are definitely entitled to ask questions and disagree with what your vet says, if you are not comfortable with their decisions/advice. You are paying the bills.
The best thing you can do for Cleo is to get her onto a canned low carb diet...which you are doing. Test the BG levels....which you are doing. And adjust the insulin as needed....having a SS will make this much easier and we can help you there.
You are giving a great insulin for cats (lantus).
I would change the dose of insulin so that you are giving the same dose night and morning. Lantus like consistency.
@Wendy&Neko do you thing go up to 5 units or down to 4 units?
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AFA going to the diag clinic tomorrow, I'm hoping they will do other tests that will rule out other complications etc. I'm thinking this little cat is just too dam fat and that might be what's caused DB and insulin resistance. We've tried to get her weight down but I think now feeding dry food was a big mistake for Cleo. What puzzles me is how we kept increasing Lantus dosing but got no positives- still drank and pee'd like crazy, lethargic etc. Now she's got neuropathy in the past 2 weeks or so and she's not able to keep her butt out of the litter so she's making a huge mess on the floor and carpet etc. I've got a carpet machine and can clean up the daily messes, but I've got to get this turned around. Can't have sh!t all over the house!!
 
Cleocatra said:
Random question: Is there a condition where a cat just cannot have dry food due to grains causing weight gain, diabetic symptoms, bloating and other bad stuff??? Kinda like humans being gluten or lactose intolerant?
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Dry food contains corn, wheat, rice, potatoes, and possibly other starches. Those foods are typically high in carbohydrates. High carbs = higher blood glucose which = diabetes.

Some cats have gone into remission by simply removing the dry food from their diet.

High blood sugars can cause lots of issues with peeing/pooing all over the place - it's just a symptom of the disease.

You've gotten some great advice above; 1)Dose needs to be the same AM and PM. 2)Continue to wean her off the dry food. Numbers will most likely come down as a result of those two things - but it'll take time.

Best of luck to you.
 
Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Great job on the spreadsheet.
And great job on the transition to wet food. I see this morning was 100% wet, wonderful!
What is the wet food you are feeding?
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Feeding Purina canned DM, as directed by vet. We changed her over to this 2 months ago from the dry DM and she had bad GI reaction and bad poopie. So we went back to 100% dry DM. The BG#'s would not come down. Drank and peed like crazy.
So far since Sunday night, she's eating well and not having adverse reaction.
Comment from my vet when I told her I was changing back to canned food: "Make sure you're feeding her a food designed for diabetic cats..." What does that tell you?!! Duhh
 
Cleocatra said:
Make sure you're feeding her a food designed for diabetic cats..." What does that tell you?!! Duhh
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That your vet doesn't have a clue - Fancy Feast and other wet canned foods work just as well as anything they will try to sell you. If you read the label closely it says 'for Dietetic Maintenance' not DiaBetic - apparently there was some legal trouble for them and they were forced to change the name - it's terribly expensive and terribly over rated....hope you can find your way to other canned foods - some are easier on those tummies than others and some they like better than others - my Luci will not touch Tiki cat - a highly recommended wet food - however loves her plain ole grocery store Fancy Feast pate's and will eat Tiny Tiger (from Chewy.com)...she also won't eat Weruva ... no gourmet palate on that girl...who can figure?
 
It's not necessary to feed DM. Hardly anyone here does. It's not a particularly high quality food, the ingredients aren't as good as many of the commercial foods you can buy. In fact, many cats get tired of the taste. If you want to try feeding a commercially available low carb food, just return it and tell the vet your cat stopped eating it. Having GI reaction to the wet food is an even better reason to stop feeding it. DM contains wheat gluten, carrageenan and guar gums, all of which can cause digestive issues in some cats. My girl couldn't handle wheat gluten. If you look at this list created by Dr. Lisa Pierson, a vet specializing in nutrition, you will find many commercially available foods with carbs less than 10%.
 
Don’t be surprised if the new vet has not heard of Zobaline. A lot of vets haven’t. It is not the same as the vitamin B injections vets give so don’t let them persuade you to swap to those. They will not help the neuropathy.
My Sheba had neuropathy badly. She gradually improved once the BG levels improved and with the Zobaline. She eventually regained all her mobility. It is hard to watch our kitties with neuropathy but it is treatable and will return to normal but takes time.
 
So we went to the diagnostic clinic, met w/ a young vet from TxA&M. She said I've done a good job caring for Cleo (of course!) and that I at least understand BG & food relationship. She did not know about Zobaline or methyl B12 since she said it didn't have any proven clinical effect on hind leg neuropathy, but Cleo does have it. I explained the litter box problems w/ weak hind legs and squating in her poop. She said it was safe to administer for whatever it's worth, shouldn't cause any problems. She too believes the Purina dry DM food is not a good choice and is probably contributing to the hi BG#'s. I had to point out to her that it is not "Diabetic Mgmt", but "Dietetic Mgmt" food. She did not realize that marketing trick.
She recommends Purina canned DM, Hill's m/d or Royal Canin Glycobalance along w/ tuna as a treat. Since Cleo is so fat (16.5 lbs) and not wasting away, that's why she is insulin resistant. Could also be why she's diabetic now, too. We will shoot 5U both am & pm and feed 4 small meals to keep the curve less curvy. Teeth look good. In light of otherwise good signs, we won't do blood work yet unless BG#'s stop improving and other signs degrade.
 
Other than the vet wanting to sell you vet food (to make more profit), it sounded like a good visit. M/D and Glycobalance are still too high carb food for diabetics. DM is OK in carbs, but not in quality and costs too much. Canned DM is still "dietetic".
 
Cleocatra said:
So we went to the diagnostic clinic, met w/ a young vet from TxA&M. She said I've done a good job caring for Cleo (of course!) and that I at least understand BG & food relationship. She did not know about Zobaline or methyl B12 since she said it didn't have any proven clinical effect on hind leg neuropathy, but Cleo does have it. I explained the litter box problems w/ weak hind legs and squating in her poop. She said it was safe to administer for whatever it's worth, shouldn't cause any problems. She too believes the Purina dry DM food is not a good choice and is probably contributing to the hi BG#'s. I had to point out to her that it is not "Diabetic Mgmt", but "Dietetic Mgmt" food. She did not realize that marketing trick.
She recommends Purina canned DM, Hill's m/d or Royal Canin Glycobalance along w/ tuna as a treat. Since Cleo is so fat (16.5 lbs) and not wasting away, that's why she is insulin resistant. Could also be why she's diabetic now, too. We will shoot 5U both am & pm and feed 4 small meals to keep the curve less curvy. Teeth look good. In light of otherwise good signs, we won't do blood work yet unless BG#'s stop improving and other signs degrade.
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Sounds like a successful vet visit. I'm glad she approves of the Zobaline. That's good.
It is true that overweight cats can be more predisposed to getting diabetes....same as humans.....but not sure that would make her insulin resistant.
That is good the teeth are fine cause bad teeth can play havoc with BG numbers.

As far as her recommendations for food go, I would check out this link I am sending you. Check that they are all low carb foods, or not. Also they are all prescription foods which are really no better for cats than ordinary canned food and a lot more expensive. However if they are low carb, Cleo will eat them and you don't mind spending the extra money, then go for it.
I'm really glad the apt went well.
Please keep posting and asking questions.
https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf
 
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