2/10 Tom

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I wrote it all in the comments of his SS.
I wish someone would concur that his food drops are real, relevant and matter in the way I treat him. They are not my imagination or just occasionally.
The reason it makes a difference for us are that his +1 and +2 are not really insulin related. And I think we know Lev does not kick in at +1 or 2.
So I hope all will still follow our pretty decent progress and not abandon us because my cat is a wee little bit different. he does not spike...ever that i can see...he DROPS!
weird, perhaps. maybe his pancrease rides on the short bus, I don't know.
 
Lori, I think you are missing my point....

It isn't that I don't believe that he drops from food, the problem is that you are feeding within 2 hours of shot time so his PS numbers are food influenced. Whether he rises or drops from food isn't the point....the point is that it obscures what is going on with the insulin. You need to know whether or not he is rising or dropping from the insulin, so you need to remove the food variable....does that make sense?
 
i haven't been following anything too closely lately but what i get out of that then is that you can't count on using food then if he were to drop too low on you someday. that would be where it's relevant yes? is that what you are concerned about?
 
If you feed an hour or so before pre-shot, the pre-shot reading is inflated. Of course you see a drop an hour or two later. The food's worn off. Laurie is correct -- you have the effect of the food and insulin conflated.

Also, it's entirely possible that Lev could onset by +2. ECID. From the data you have, Tom's nadir is as early as +5. Onset could easily be at +2.
 
Hi, Lori.. Tom is looking really good lately.. I see a sea of blue :thumbup
I cannot contribute anymore expertise to what Laurie & Sienne have said & I agree with them, but wanted to drop through & show support for you & Tom ;-)
 
i think what lori is talking about is how she gets a number at let's say +10, feeds at +11 and then the +12 number is down from the +10 number. lori???

still not that big of a thing i don't think in the big scheme of things except something to keep in mind if he's dropping too low someday and advising her on what food or karo to use to bring him up.
 
oh phoebie! bite your tongue!!!

anyway..what I mean is that I wake up at 7, test, feed. all before 7:30. now if I test 2o minutes or 2 hours after that he is lower. by 3 hours he starts to go back up with no insulin.
laurie...just how many hours do I have to withold food before his amps or pmps. is 2 hours not enough?

the reason i think it's relevant is 1) checking his +1 or +2 at night is not really the mark of him going down at any speed. and 2) yep, if he's in a hypo or even a low enough # to be concerned with...i guess we'll see how he reacts to food at that time.

So....how many hours? when i get out of bed it's meal time. either way i have to stay up with him half the night if i shoot low or wake up really early to get food in him before 9:30

with my wonky schedule it turns out 9:30 is pretty dependable time for me to be home all the time.
 
here's what i suspect. tom is so happy just to see food, especially in the morning that his pancreas spews insulin at the mere sight of it. he does go down rather immediatly and for awhile.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
If you feed an hour or so before pre-shot, the pre-shot reading is inflated. Of course you see a drop an hour or two later. The food's worn off. Laurie is correct -- you have the effect of the food and insulin conflated

Also, it's entirely possible that Lev could onset by +2. ECID. From the data you have, Tom's nadir is as early as +5. Onset could easily be at +2.
Click to expand...





the pre shot # is always deflated if i feed him...ait's both immediate and can last nearly 2 hours. back when we were on pz and has horrible 600's often he would drop as much as 2-300 nd points in one hour from food.


yes it is possible. i'll buy that. but his pre shot is lower after eatting. i'm not really talking too much about his post shot #'s right now. i guess my thought or concern is staying up to +4 or so to really see when i shoot a low-ee or waking up really early to feed him so he does not have food in his system more than 2 hours before ampt. it really comes down to me shooting low-ee's and not having to stay up with him. i want to thouroughly understand my data to feel data ready including the fact of the food drops.
does that make sense?
we keep talking about the data. his food drops are part of the data no?
 
lori and tom said:
i'm not really talking too much about his post shot #'s right now. i guess my thought or concern is staying up to +4 or so to really see when i shoot a low-ee or waking up really early to feed him so he does not have food in his system more than 2 hours before ampt. it really comes down to me shooting low-ee's and not having to stay up with him. i want to thouroughly understand my data to feel data ready including the fact of the food drops.
does that make sense?
we keep talking about the data. his food drops are part of the data no?
Click to expand...

Lori I think you need to stop feeding Tom at +11. If he drops from food then I would say do not feed him within 3 hours of shot time. I think you keep missing Cheryl and Laurie's point. Whether or not Tom's numbers go up or down from food your ps will still be food influenced. In order to get a clearer picture of what Tom's true ps's are you need to take food out of the picture more than 2 hours before ps time. Do you have a timed feeder that you can set to feed him at +8?

The other thing that stands out is your sentence that says, "it really comes down to me shooting low and not having to stay up with him." I may not be interpreting this correctly but it looks like you want a plan to shoot low numbers without having to stay up and test. I understand you have sleep issues but I have to tell you there is no plan nor will there ever be a plan to shoot low and not test until you have data to show how Tom reacts to shooting low. Believe me if there were such a plan we would all be following it because there are many tired people in LL that do stay up to collect data.

I have stayed up many nights with Putty after shooting low. I now have a much clearer picture of what he is going to do based on his +2. I can pretty much tell if he is more than 50 points higher at +2 then most likely I won't have to stay up very late. I know that because I have collected thd data. ECID so that is just what I have learned from Putty. He can still throw me a curve ball every now and then just to make sure I don't get too comfortable. :?
 
yes Miriam...a lot of it is sleep related. he get's his shot at 9:30. I wake up at 7ish. He really wants to eat when I get up. Making him wait until 9:30 am would be so hard on him. His last meal would have been at 9:30 the night before. That's a long time between feedings. He won't get up to eat in the middle of the night unless I get up with him. He sleeps so hard and never moves all night long.
I know a member here who is gone 13 hours or so a day...on lantus. she manages with that. I guess I should speak to her.
It's not a matter of not wanting to care for tom. It really is a serious disorder that I finally have under control after suffering terribly for years. It would truly be horrible to relive it.
I hope I can find someone to work with me that understands my limitations and can work around them.
I'm not giving up.
I hope a few will stay with me.
 
lori and tom said:
yes Miriam...a lot of it is sleep related. he get's his shot at 9:30. I wake up at 7ish. He really wants to eat when I get up. Making him wait until 9:30 am would be so hard on him. His last meal would have been at 9:30 the night before. That's a long time between feedings. He won't get up to eat in the middle of the night unless I get up with him. He sleeps so hard and never moves all night long.
I know a member here who is gone 13 hours or so a day...on lantus. she manages with that. I guess I should speak to her.
It's not a matter of not wanting to care for tom. It really is a serious disorder that I finally have under control after suffering terribly for years. It would truly be horrible to relive it.
I hope I can find someone to work with me that understands my limitations and can work around them.
I'm not giving up.
I hope a few will stay with me.
Click to expand...

Lori.....of course we are here to help you. The problem is that we do not have control over how Tom will react to Lev. At some point his numbers will get lower as they are starting to now and the only way to know for sure how he will react is to collect data. The only other option you have is to lower the dose and deal with the higher numbers which is really not a good solution. I think the reason you switched to Lev is so that he would have better numbers and not as many big drops and bounces.

If you are already getting up at 7 to feed him why don't you just adjust his shot time so that you will shoot at 7am/7 pm and have more time to get spot checks?

Can you put a timed feeder in the room that Tom sleeps in. Maybe he would get used to it. Putty sleeps soundly with me all night long but believe me if he heard that timed feeder open he would certainly wake up for it. I guess you won't know until you try. :smile:
 
true true true about the trying. i used to shrug him awake at 3 am to eat so he would not be 600 in the morning. he did get up but it was like dragging a kid out of bed for school!

as for the 7pm thing. i often have things going on in the early evening. and i did it at first but it became clear that it i was off schedule more often than not...this way i am always home at 9:30 both am and pm.

i suppose i could start that again. the feeding. i put a can near my bed and when i get up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night i would put it down for him on his placemat in the bedroom. shrug him..snore...shrug him more...c'mom tom it fudz..shrug..finally he opens one eye..then two...yawns stretches and gets up and goes like it's a chore and eats.. comes back to bed and in a minute snoring again. :-D
a little like his mama bean.

so where shall i look for the right kind? petsmart?
 
lori and tom said:
true true true about the trying. i used to shrug him awake at 3 am to eat so he would not be 600 in the morning. he did get up but it was like dragging a kid out of bed for school!

as for the 7pm thing. i often have things going on in the early evening. and i did it at first but it became clear that it i was off schedule more often than not...this way i am always home at 9:30 both am and pm.

i suppose i could start that again. the feeding. i put a can near my bed and when i get up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night i would put it down for him on his placemat in the bedroom. shrug him..snore...shrug him more...c'mom tom it fudz..shrug..finally he opens one eye..then two...yawns stretches and gets up and goes like it's a chore and eats.. comes back to bed and in a minute snoring again. :-D
a little like his mama bean.

so where shall i look for the right kind? petsmart?
Click to expand...
Do Lou has a snack in bed with me at night Lori at about +7 or 8 this would be so much better then the +11 if you could arrange that for Tom or something similar Do Lou also does not eat unless I hold his paw yes he is so spoiled anyway hope you can work out something for Tom I bought my timed feeders on amazon but they may have them at pet smart
 
well tonight i will 'hold his paw' and feed him at bathroom break time. but i can tell you this without any hesitation...he will be completley undone when i get up to make my coffee, test him...and no food????? he will think i have gone absolutly mad! he will sit by his place mat licking it..licking the empty bowl and act as if he has'nt eatten in days. i KNOW my tomtom. this is one strict routine with the lev i'll tell ya. we had so much breathing room with the pz. but the #'s speak for themselves. there's no comparison. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
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