2/10 Domino AMPS 387, Puff AMPS 341 Dose Increase?

[Domino and Puff]

Domino -- I have increased his insulin back to 2U since he was no longer getting any green on 1.75. So far this hasn't made much difference either, but I will continue to hold for several days and see where it goes. Domino spent the day at the vet's yesterday starting allergy shots (the vet wanted to make sure he did not have a reaction to the first few shots). Hopefully this will help with his fur pulling, scratching and rodent's ulcer.

Puff -- I am starting to think the one blue number on 2/8 was a fluke. He seems to have higher numbers since I increased him to 2.25 than he did on 2.0 -- what do I do now? Increase again? Decrease? His numbers are really frustrating!

Both kitties are eating well and doing their normal kitty activities -- they seem oblivious to the high numbers!


Last Condo:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5641

 

[Ronnie & Luna]

Hi Connie,

check back when you can, gonna try to get some eyes on your concerns in the meantime ok?

 

[Domino and Puff]

Thanks Ronnie! I'll be watching.

 

[Spacey & Ella]

No idea, maybe Puff needs longer to get used to the higher dose?
He is on it's way down I see.
I really really understand your frustration!

I hope Ronnie can catch someone for you..

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Connie -

Do you know what the vet is using to treat Domino's allergies with? (Poor little guy!! Domino - not the vet!) It will be important to know if he's using a steroid.

 

[Carolyn and Spot]

Domino -- I have increased his insulin back to 2U since he was no longer getting any green on 1.75. So far this hasn't made much difference either, but I will continue to hold for several days and see where it goes. Domino spent the day at the vet's yesterday starting allergy shots (the vet wanted to make sure he did not have a reaction to the first few shots). Hopefully this will help with his fur pulling, scratching and rodent's ulcer.

Puff -- I am starting to think the one blue number on 2/8 was a fluke. He seems to have higher numbers since I increased him to 2.25 than he did on 2.0 -- what do I do now? Increase again? Decrease? His numbers are really frustrating!

Both kitties are eating well and doing their normal kitty activities -- they seem oblivious to the high numbers!


Last Condo:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5641

Domino-- allergy shots, are they steroids? you will have to probably do some dose increasing to catch up with them if so.. steroids interfere badly with insulin -- day at vets will kill your numbers too, don't even consider numbers for 12 hours after a trip to the vet. If the shots are steroid shots, please note that on your SS so when we look back on it in two months, we'll know what happened. Need more spot checks to adequately see what is happening here, you might have missed a green somewhere, not sure if this is rebound, allergies, steroids, etc etc etc. With his allergies, it's gonna interfere with regulation and I think that might be what you're seeing with the hit and miss results on dosing. Watch him as closely as possible on this dose. When steroids wear off, they really wear off.

Puff-- time for a bump in dosing. I like that blue at PS the other day but you need more ammo IMHO. His ss is showing signs of potential toxicity and you want to avoid that. Note those two reds you got right before the blue.. that's a sign you're gonna get a breakthrough, watch for it next time.

WCR's are good, glad to see them

 

[Domino and Puff]

Connie -

Do you know what the vet is using to treat Domino's allergies with? (Poor little guy!! Domino - not the vet!) It will be important to know if he's using a steroid.

No, the shots are not steriods. We had his blood tested to find the exact things he is allergic to (beef, eggs, potatoes, several grasses, house flies -- just to name a few -- there were like 25 different things). These shots are basically small doses of the things he is allergic to, they are supposed to desensitize him and help stop the allergies.

Domino-- allergy shots, are they steroids? you will have to probably do some dose increasing to catch up with them if so.. steroids interfere badly with insulin -- day at vets will kill your numbers too, don't even consider numbers for 12 hours after a trip to the vet. If the shots are steroid shots, please note that on your SS so when we look back on it in two months, we'll know what happened. Need more spot checks to adequately see what is happening here, you might have missed a green somewhere, not sure if this is rebound, allergies, steroids, etc etc etc. With his allergies, it's gonna interfere with regulation and I think that might be what you're seeing with the hit and miss results on dosing. Watch him as closely as possible on this dose. When steroids wear off, they really wear off.

The shots are not steriods. Although i do believe this could have been what caused him to be diabetic in the first place. He has had allergies for years and my first vet treated him with steriods several times. My new vet knows that he should not give him steriods, as I do now also. Usually a trip to the vet's office doesn't cause problems with high numbers for Domino -- he just doesn't seem to stress very much. The last time he went, when we got home and tested at +11, he was at 70! But I do know that it is possible. Also, I can't get spot checks every day because of work -- sorry.

Puff-- time for a bump in dosing. I like that blue at PS the other day but you need more ammo IMHO. His ss is showing signs of potential toxicity and you want to avoid that. Note those two reds you got right before the blue.. that's a sign you're gonna get a breakthrough, watch for it next time.
WCR's are good, glad to see them

You'll have to educate me here a little -- what is toxicity? And why are reds before blues a sign of a breakthrough? Should I bump his dose by .25 every 3 days or every 5 -- I've seen some say 6 cycles and some say 10? I'm really confused!

 

[Carolyn and Spot]

No, the shots are not steriods. We had his blood tested to find the exact things he is allergic to (beef, eggs, potatoes, several grasses, house flies -- just to name a few -- there were like 25 different things). These shots are basically small doses of the things he is allergic to, they are supposed to desensitize him and help stop the allergies.

Never heard of doing that but I can't think irritating him is going to be good for regulation LOL We'll have to watch and see how these shots pan out.

Domino-- allergy shots, are they steroids? you will have to probably do some dose increasing to catch up with them if so.. steroids interfere badly with insulin -- day at vets will kill your numbers too, don't even consider numbers for 12 hours after a trip to the vet. If the shots are steroid shots, please note that on your SS so when we look back on it in two months, we'll know what happened. Need more spot checks to adequately see what is happening here, you might have missed a green somewhere, not sure if this is rebound, allergies, steroids, etc etc etc. With his allergies, it's gonna interfere with regulation and I think that might be what you're seeing with the hit and miss results on dosing. Watch him as closely as possible on this dose. When steroids wear off, they really wear off.

The shots are not steriods. Although i do believe this could have been what caused him to be diabetic in the first place. He has had allergies for years and my first vet treated him with steriods several times. My new vet knows that he should not give him steriods, as I do now also. Usually a trip to the vet's office doesn't cause problems with high numbers for Domino -- he just doesn't seem to stress very much. The last time he went, when we got home and tested at +11, he was at 70! But I do know that it is possible. Also, I can't get spot checks every day because of work -- sorry.

I know, people have lives, and I meant to say that, but see if you can get any early or late numbers. Even + 1s/10s/11s will help if you can manage them. Night numbers help too, especially before bed checks

Puff-- time for a bump in dosing. I like that blue at PS the other day but you need more ammo IMHO. His ss is showing signs of potential toxicity and you want to avoid that. Note those two reds you got right before the blue.. that's a sign you're gonna get a breakthrough, watch for it next time.
WCR's are good, glad to see them

You'll have to educate me here a little -- what is toxicity? And why are reds before blues a sign of a breakthrough? Should I bump his dose by .25 every 3 days or every 5 -- I've seen some say 6 cycles and some say 10? I'm really confused!

Toxicity is what happens when a kitty stays in high numbers too long. Basically (very basic) their bodies get used to the high numbers and want to stay there. The liver works harder to fight off the insulin and the cat ultimately gets stuck in the ugly colors. Then you have to start shooting more and more and more to finally "break" them out of it. It's a bad scene. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Glucose_toxicity I said he has potential for it because I see too much pink.

I'd go by ear on the increases, but I probably would not go more than 8 cycles. You have to watch for response. Sometimes cats respond early to increases, like 2-3 days, other times they are slower to respond. If he is slow to respond to an increase, you might have to hold for an extra cycle to be sure he's not about to break before increasing. People will help you learn to recognize that. In my opinion, a cat idling in high numbers should not go more than 8 cycles at a dose before increase, it just asks for trouble.

Finally, reds before blues.. we often see a cat spike very high numbers directly before breaking. That's exactly what he did. So next time you see it, you'll recognize it. FD management is all about watching patterns in your cat. :smile:

 

[Domino and Puff]

Thanks so much for the info Carolyn! It really helps to have someone else give their opinion and share their knowledge! Domino has been a diabetic for 2 1/2 years and we have tried three different insulins, but I don't know much about Lantus (and neither does my vet, since I am the first one he has had on Lantus). So I really appreciate your help.

Never heard of doing that but I can't think irritating him is going to be good for regulation LOL We'll have to watch and see how these shots pan out.

I don't know either, but my vet says he has had several pets that were helped tremendously. Since Domino was pulling all the fur on his back out, scratching sores on his neck and has a rodent's ulcer, I thought it was worth trying. I guess if his numbers go too high, we can stop them.

I know, people have lives, and I meant to say that, but see if you can get any early or late numbers. Even + 1s/10s/11s will help if you can manage them. Night numbers help too, especially before bed checks

I'll try for some more early and late numbers, but my before bed checks are already there +2, +3 and +4. LOL, I guess I need more sleep than some.

Toxicity is what happens when a kitty stays in high numbers too long. Basically (very basic) their bodies get used to the high numbers and want to stay there. The liver works harder to fight off the insulin and the cat ultimately gets stuck in the ugly colors. Then you have to start shooting more and more and more to finally "break" them out of it. It's a bad scene. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Glucose_toxicity I said he has potential for it because I see too much pink.

I'd go by ear on the increases, but I probably would not go more than 8 cycles. You have to watch for response. Sometimes cats respond early to increases, like 2-3 days, other times they are slower to respond. If he is slow to respond to an increase, you might have to hold for an extra cycle to be sure he's not about to break before increasing. People will help you learn to recognize that. In my opinion, a cat idling in high numbers should not go more than 8 cycles at a dose before increase, it just asks for trouble.

Finally, reds before blues.. we often see a cat spike very high numbers directly before breaking. That's exactly what he did. So next time you see it, you'll recognize it. FD management is all about watching patterns in your cat. :smile:

As far as the insulin toxicity, it's funny because we have tried Vetsulin, PZI and now Lantus with Puff, and my vet has mentioned to me that he thought Puff might be insulin resistant (same thing as toxicity?). None of the insulins seem to have brought him down to a comfortable level. The only thing that did bring him down any was the change to low carb wet food. I made this change after reading here and my vet said "if it works, do it". He went from 400's and 500's to the current 200's and 300's, but we just can't seem to go any lower. Puff has only been diagnosed as diabetic for a few months, so I had hoped he might be easier to regulate, but that is not the case. Maybe we just need to keep upping the dose.

 

[Carolyn and Spot]

Thanks so much for the info Carolyn! It really helps to have someone else give their opinion and share their knowledge! Domino has been a diabetic for 2 1/2 years and we have tried three different insulins, but I don't know much about Lantus (and neither does my vet, since I am the first one he has had on Lantus). So I really appreciate your help.

I don't know either, but my vet says he has had several pets that were helped tremendously. Since Domino was pulling all the fur on his back out, scratching sores on his neck and has a rodent's ulcer, I thought it was worth trying. I guess if his numbers go too high, we can stop them.


I'll try for some more early and late numbers, but my before bed checks are already there +2, +3 and +4. LOL, I guess I need more sleep than some.

As far as the insulin toxicity, it's funny because we have tried Vetsulin, PZI and now Lantus with Puff, and my vet has mentioned to me that he thought Puff might be insulin resistant (same thing as toxicity?). None of the insulins seem to have brought him down to a comfortable level. The only thing that did bring him down any was the change to low carb wet food. I made this change after reading here and my vet said "if it works, do it". He went from 400's and 500's to the current 200's and 300's, but we just can't seem to go any lower. Puff has only been diagnosed as diabetic for a few months, so I had hoped he might be easier to regulate, but that is not the case. Maybe we just need to keep upping the dose.

You are absolutely right, it's worth trying (Domino's shots). We may have to increase dose if he shows negative response in the numbers, but that's what you do when you're treating more than one illness.

Puff is not insulin resistant. More than likely, he just didn't do well on those insulins. He's making good progress, he just needs to go up in dose a bit more and soon you'll be seeing some really good responses from him.