2/1/14 Mitzi AMPS 576+5 587

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Mara and Mitzi

Mara and Mitzi

Member Since 2014
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=112854

This is Mitzi's first condo. She is currently on 7u of Lantus. Was feeding a mix of wet and dry, but stopped the dry last night and now she's strictly on Fancy Feast. I could really use some help with dosing. Mitzi's been diagnosed Diabetic almost 2 years now but her insulin just isn't right. Super lethargic, high BG numbers, and being that I'm giving her so much insulin a day that doesn't seem right. I just started testing and became a member to FDMB last night. Donna has helped me get my SS up. So I am still learning how to do it all so be gentle on me. lol
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439

Hi Mara, a big welcome to you and Mitzi to Lantus Land. There is lots of information on this forum. Make sure you read the starred sticky posts at the top. There's a lot of information there - I still review them every once in a while. Feel free to ask any questions, we love to help people help their cats!

Here is your first post on Health. We ask that you like to previous posts so people can catch up on Mitzi's history.
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439

Hi Mitzi, and Mitzis bean Mara :-D I just wanted to pop in to say hello, and welcome! It's great you're hometesting, especially since you're switching to all wet and that can drop their BG a lot (even a little dry kept my Chyna up when we were switching over). I'm sorry I can't help on dosing, but others on here are great at it and are good helps. Good luck, I hope you see some nicer numbers soon :razz:
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439+6 536

Hi Mara, glad your up and have your spreadsheet going,Donna helped me so thought this was easier for you to understand this way. Glad your here you will get all the tools you need. There are a lot of very good people here, don't be worried of asking anything. Let's get Mitzi better...

Linda and Lucky
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439+6 536

Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone! :-D I'm having a good time so far learning a lot so I can help Mitzi get better. I tested her an hour or so ago and the first reading said, "HI" and I don't know what that means so I tested her again and got 536. That was 6 hours after her AMPS, so I don't know what to think cos I thought her number would be lower. I am only giving her Fancy Feast now and she's eating every couple/few hours...half a can or less at a time. Mitzi likes to graze like a cow so if she had the option to eat a can every time she would but I need to limit her cos my vet asked if she was pregnant last year. LMAO, yea, my then 15 now 16 year old cat is fricken pregnant when she has been spayed since she was a baby. So dumb! He then did an ultrasound on her cos her belly was "round" and thought she had a tumor. I told him that's always been her shape but decided to let him do it anyway so we can be on the safe side. Well, Mitzi was/is as healthy as a horse minus having Diabetes. Long story short, she's always been a chunky monkey...not so much anymore because she no longer gets to eat everything she sees, but that is exactly why I watch what she eats and give her smaller meals multiple times a day/night. Plus, would you wanna be hungry all day if you only ate twice a day?! So what does everyone think I should do regarding her insulin units? Cut down slowly, start all over (not sure that's the best idea since she was at higher units from the get go), or wait till the dry/carby food gets out of her system in a few days and see how things go over the next week? I was gonna run to Walgreens yet tonight and get Ketostix strips to see if that might be an issue. I really hope not! (fingers crossed) She didn't have any ketones in her when she was tested before but that's been a while. So I'll make sure to test her pee later. Is there a certain way to do so? Like do I wait till after she eats, before she eats or is pee just pee no matter what and can I just stick it under her while she pees anytime I want? Also, how many times a day/week/month do I test for it? Do people do it that often?
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439+6 536

BTW, why the heck can't I add a picture of Mitzi like you guys have of your babies?! It says I have too many pixels? What kind of picture works or how do I decrease pixels? So dumb.
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439+6 536

If you lucky enough to get it under her do it,Lucky wouldn't pee if I put my hand under him, the others will advise you how to reduce but take your time, this is a process no quick fix.I tested Lucky once a month on ketones. Someone will be around for more answers for you, glad your here..
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439+6 536

If you use photo bucket you can add photos between the brackets, I haven't done it in awhile one of the girls here can help you I'm on kindle can't do it...
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439+6 536

What is photo bucket? Mitzi has no problem peeing with me around...half the time I'm in there with her (not actually) helping her get in and making sure she's far enough back. Mitzi likes to think that once her feet are in the potty box she can pee...aka her booty is hanging out and then the pee doesn't go in the box. Can't even be mad about that cos she's never had an accident in her life and at least attempts to go in there. BTW, it's not an issue anymore cos I have a pan outside the litter box that catches the pee and then I just dump the pee in the toilet and disinfect the pan and were good to go. Works extremely well! My mom is the one who came up with that idea. I had a mat on the floor to catch her pee but sometimes it ran over since she pees too much and then I'd be mopping multiple times a day, which was annoying. But that Mitzi of mine...so stinkin' cute. Can't even be mad that she thinks she's really in the litter box. HAHAHA!
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439+6 536

Welcome, Mitzi and Mara!!! I'm so glad you found us...LL is the best place ever, and it is awesome that you have your SS up and running, and are now home testing.

Since you just cut out the dry food, you definitely want to stay on top of testing. Dry food may be one reason why she has required so much insulin, so as it works its way out of her system, her insulin needs MAY drop really quickly.

Have you checked out all the stickies at the top of the forum? There is a ton of info there, and it can be very overwhelming, so please ask as many questions as you need to.

For getting Mitzi's avatar in place...it does sound like you need to reduce the size of the picture in some sort of picture editing application, but without seeing it in front of me, it's hard to say for sure. There is a tech forum here, too...someone there may be able to get more specific with that info for you.

Mitzi isn't the only kitty who has the "best of intentions" when it comes to getting that tushy into the litterbox :lol: !! I love that you roll with her on that :cool: !!!

Welcome again!!!
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439+6 536

Hi again Mara and extra sweet Mitzi!!

For your avatar pic, you have to resize them to 90 pixels. Here's the program most of us use Resize pictures

Just use the program, pick a picture you want to use that you have in your computer pictures file, and set the avatar size at 90.

Happy you're here in Lantus Land!! Now that you're here, you can just post in here daily. Of course if you still want to, you can post in Health, but here's where most of us that use Lantus are ....so you'll get a lot of experienced eyes.

I know you still haven't got a really good answer to your main question about dose, so hopefully this evening, more people will have a chance to chime in. If you go back to your first post today (the condo here) and "Edit" the subject to include the ? icon, and something like "Dose advice needed", it will help get the attention of more members.

Lantus Land...she's been giving 7.5 units and increasing fast due to her vets recommendation. She's cutting out the dry and just started testing last night, as well as dropping to 7 units. She's been given links on high dose conditions, but since she never went UP using the protocol, she's wondering if she should continue to give 7, drop back to 1 and start over, or somewhere in between. She welcomes your opinions and advice!
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439+6 536

Hi Mara and Mitzi and welcome to Lantus Land. There is a great website for converting a picture into avatar size:
http://www.shrinkpictures.com/create-avatar/

I know that there is so much to read and learn when you are trying to get your kitty's diabetes under control. The best place to start is the "sticky" (post) "New to the Group" at the top of this forum. There is lots of information there. It's great that you already have a spreadsheet up and running and that you are home testing. The food chart by Dr. Lisa Pierson is the one that has the most recent data on many foods. I see that you are feeding Fancy Feast. Many of the Fancy Feast formulas are not low in carbohydrates. We strive for LC (low carb) foods (under 10%, and preferably under 5% carbs). Of the Fancy Feast flavors, the only ones that are truly low carb are the "Classic" patés.

We are very glad to see you here in Lantus Land.

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439+6 536

Hi Mara and sweet sweet Mitzi!! I saw you on FB and was hoping you made it to LL! This is an awesome resource and you will find SO much help here!

Cutting back the dose is up to you. I can tell you what we did.

When we got here, Cobb was on 10units bid. He was also eating solely dry "diabetic" food and the vet said that was fine. We had used Prozinc before switching to Lantus, and our vet increased the dosage 2units at a time. He never dropped under 400, really 500, in the 6-7 months before I joined FDMB. When I made the switch to wet food only, he dropped under 200 within a couple of days and immediately bounced for that. But the drastic drop freaked me out, and since I had a 5 month old at the time, it was going to be a near impossible situation if he hypo'd. A lot of people told me his high numbers could be because of the quick increases in his dose and he could be getting too much insulin (didn't make sense but they do know what they're talking about). So I figured we would just start over at 2units (based on his weight) and work back up by fast tracking so he wouldn't have to be in higher numbers for longer than he had to be. We went up .5unit at a time, but carefully in hopes of finding the right dose. He is on 12units now, but we've gotten here safely and I have full confidence in those helping me out.

That's just our story of arriving here on a huge dose of insulin!

You're going to have a lot of information thrown at you. Since Mitzi is on so much insulin, you may hear the conditions IAA (insulin autoantibodies) and acromegaly. Both are high dose conditions. Both freaked me out when people started telling me to test for them. We haven't done the testing yet, but will shortly.

Anything you don't understand or want explained again, please ask!! We want you to he comfortable and get Mitzi into better numbers. You are in the right place!!!
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439+6 536

Welcome to Lantus Land.

Congrats on getting started with home testing and getting your spreadsheet up and running.

I wonder if you could provide a bit more history. How was Mitzi's dose raised? You mentioned that she's been diabetic for about 18 months. Where did the dose start at and how big were the increases? How often was her dose raised?

Was the vet doing curves on a somewhat regular basis and is there any chance you could get those records from your vet?
 
Re: 1/30 Mitzi AMPS 479+2 439+6 536

Alright, just got home, everybody! Was sitting in the Petsmart isle for over an isle calculating what Mitzi can have. I'm one up on, guys!!! Meaning, I know Fancy Feast can have high numbers so I made sure I only bought the food that was on "the list" of wet food I can feed Mitzi. No gravy, all pates and gourmets. I also found a freeze dried bag of fish treats that are 2% so I bought them. Mitzi loved her Temptations but those are HORRIBLE...I was calculating everything in my house and my mom's house over the phone with her last night and we were amazed how shitty all those treats are. But since Mitzi loooooves getting treats as she does tricks for them and just about anything to have one, I knew I had to find something for her to have. lol. So, hopefully, she likes them. They have just one ingredient...ocean white fish. Can't beat that!

I also bought Ketone test strips and I'm gonna go test one in a little bit. I've gotta go do her PMPS now and feed her so I'll get back on and let you guys know the previous dosage units and how fast they were increased. BRB!
 
Re: DOSAGE HELP?! 1/30 Mitzi PMPS 442

Mitzi's PMPS was 442. I just made her go potty (I'm so glad she goes on command...I seriously have THE BEST/SMARTEST baby, EVER!) and I'm 99% positive that it's negative. I mean, "negative" and "trace" are too damn close in color lol but It's more negative if I had to go one way or the other. She just ate and is now gonna go take a nap. Ever since I took her off dry food last night and have been feeding her throughout the day in small/multiple meals, she honestly seems so much more lively than yesterday or the days before that. I know my baby to a T so I can just tell this is helping slowly and will be beneficial in the long run.

When Mitzi was diagnosed, my vet did a curve twice if I recall correctly. He started her off slowly with 1 unit at a time and then sent me home and I brought her back the next day and she was already being raised cos her numbers weren't hardly affected/touched. She then made a bunch of trips back and forth over a couple months time period and her insulin was increased to 4...5...6...and so on. They didn't even see her when I called and asked questions towards 5 and 6...they just told me over the phone to increase cos I was explaining her symptoms (excessive water drinking/peeing 50 gallons a day/lethargy) and they said that once she started peeing/drinking less that it was where it should be. I just went with it cos it seemed to have worked then but I'd say within the last two months her pee has gotten heavy again and she's been sleeping by the water fountain this last week like I don't give her water or something. She also drank so much last night that she puked up a puddle this morning from having too much in her belly. It was spitty but mostly water. She doesn't puke up food ever just water from having too much. Are there any other questions you guys have for me that might help you help me?! I wonder what amount of insulin she should really be at?! That bothers me...but I spose in time we will know! I'm hopeful on that! :smile:
 
Re: DOSAGE HELP?! 1/30 Mitzi PMPS 442

Hi Mara and Mitzi and welcome to the board! :lol:

Your in such a great place with such great people and advice.

keep asking questions!

Linda
 
Re: DOSAGE HELP?! 1/30 Mitzi PMPS 442

Hi again,
The next time you go to PetSmart look in the dog aisle for freeze-dried 100% pure chicken treats. PetSmart has their own brand, "Simply Nourish".
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12872981&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No
The dog treats are much cheaper than the 100% pure chicken cat treats. You cut them up into smaller pieces. Other brands are available online ("Whole Life"; "Pure Bites", etc. Always buy the "dog"-sized treats and cut them up. The bags are bigger than the cat treats bags and therefore they are cheaper.

YOu are doing great!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: DOSAGE HELP?! 1/30 Mitzi PMPS 442

Yep, that's exactly what I bought. Well, the cat treats but I got the fish one cos I calculated the chicken ones for cats and the number was over 10% so I just went with the fish. I'll have to do that next time though. And they've already been smelling the bag so I think they'll like em!

And thanks, everyone, for the warm welcoming! Last night and today has truly been an eye opener. I already feel like I've changed things significantly to help Mitzi!
 
Re: DOSAGE HELP?! 1/30 Mitzi PMPS 442

I was buying the Simply Nourish Chicken and Rice Recipe dry cat food for them and that's what Mitzi ate 20% of the time, along with her Fancy Feast. Little did I know, that dry food has over 35% carbs in it! NO NO NO! Soooooooo bad. So when I found that out last night I took it completely away from her and now she's 100% wet food! Hopefully, that'll make a difference!
 
Re: DOSAGE HELP?! 1/30 Mitzi PMPS 442

Pure Bites or Halo freeze dried chicken are all protein. There are no carbs added. There is no way a piece of freeze dried chicken in 10% carbs. Most of us use freeze dried chicken as treats.
 
Re: DOSAGE HELP?! 1/30 Mitzi PMPS 442

Hi there and Welcome to Lantus Land! :cool:

You and Mitzi have come to the right place.

Being that you mentioned testing for ketones I'll offer some thoughts about monitoring. Many folks here have battled ketones . I've been down that path with Black Kitty twice.

We too hope that ketones never show up and they may indeed never show up. However until your kitty starts seeing some better numbers I recommend testing daily. ketones can sneak right up on you. A simple test keeps you a step ahead.

It sounds like Mitzi is happy to oblige :lol:

I sometimes could not decide if the strip read 'negative' or 'trace'. I found if I walked into different lighting it helped. I tested in the bathroom and would move out to the kitchen. If it was daytime I'd get next to the kitchen window for some natural light, which was the best for my eyes.

Safety first! Should you ever see a reading other than negative, even a reading of trace -bring it to the attention of the folks here.

Glad to hear you are dumping the dry - that will give you a solid foundation to build Mitzis treatment on
 
Re: DOSAGE HELP?! 1/30 Mitzi PMPS 442+3 368

368!!! I know it's still a high number but I'm excited to get out of 500's and one of her readings today read "HI" so this little drop excites me haha.

And for the freeze dried chicken, it very well could be the brand that makes em as to why they are that high. Shrimp was over 16% and I thought it'd be low. But I know I didn't do anything wrong figuring it out cos I downloaded that app for androids and typed in the calculations and it did it itself. Weird. I'll have to try finding a diff brand though. And those other treats...where can I get em? Didn't see any at Petsmart but maybe cos I wasn't lookin for em then!
 
Re: DOSAGE HELP?! 1/30 Mitzi PMPS 442+3 368

WOOT! It's great to see Mitzi coming down a floor or two for night time. :-D Don't forget to update your spreadsheet with the new values. Since you just started this dose last night, it's probably OK to stay here for a few cycles yet. Once we've seen a bit more data on Mitzi, we'll get a clearer picture of where she should go with her dose.

You can get the Pure Bites chicken (or turkey) in Petsmart and I've seen them in a lot of other pet food stores too. As the others say, check in the dog section for more economically sized bags.

Cute pic on the avatar too. :cool:
 
Re: DOSAGE HELP?! 1/30 Mitzi PMPS 442+3 368

Mitzi's numbers have been going up last night and today. I know they didn't drop significantly before but they were at least lowering, not getting higher. I've been having to redo the tests a couple times each time cos they keep saying "HI." She also had runny poop that was sorta green last night. And it's never really solid but it was like liquid this time. And I just took her temp and it was 100.4, so were at least good there. Gonna keep an eye on her. Might call the vet tom to see what they think. The poop could be very liquidy cos she has no dry food now?! That's just my guess. Gotta create a new post today when I get on my laptop. SS is updated if ya wanna take a look. I keep on top of it!

And thanks, she's my beauty queen! Lol
 
Kitties digestive systems can take a little while to get used to the new wet food diet. This shouldn't be a long term thing. You can always get a probiotic like Fortiflora to help.
 
Mara, I've been meaning to tell you something but kept getting sidetracked so I'm doing it now while I'm thinking of it!

When you get HI on the meters, that means the BG is over 600... so if you get a HI, you don't really need to keep testing until you get a number...just put "HI" on your spreadsheet. We'll understand that's over 600

It IS important to get those ketone tests in when it's high, but when they get into those higher numbers, it's just not so important to know if they're at 650 or 630 :smile:
 
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