2/05 Morris AMPS 47; +9 310; +10 337; PMPS 358; +1 425

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Gwen and Morris

Gwen and Morris

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yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5190

CD has told me before, always feed the 40's! I currently have Morris eating 1/2 can HC Friskies & will retest shortly. I would hate to skip the dose entirely, but I won't be home to monitor him today! If his number is increasing, should I give him 1.0u? Thoughts/suggestions???
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47!! dose advice??

Wow! That's impressive. Half a can of HC Friskies is liable to really give you a food spike, I would think. SO the next couple of numbers might be high due to that. Hang in! I hope someone comes along who can advise you.
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47!! dose advice??

Oh my what a drop. I can't offer dosage advice but will you be around today to monitor?
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47!! dose advice??

Lydia is correct. The readings that you get after feeding the HC will be higher. You could call it a fur shot and just wait til tonight to shoot again. Waiting for someone else to come along.....have you retested yet?
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47!! dose advice??

Gwen,

Sami went through the same thing this morning, only she has been green for a few days now. We gave just a small amount of HC, about ½ a teaspoon at first, along with some LC. I have been feeding mini meals so a little later I gave a little more LC food, and 2 hours after her shot time, and 3 mini meals of 1/6 can of Fancy Feast along with the ½ teaspoon of HC, Sami was still at 41. Needless to say we skipped her shot this morning. I fed another ¾ teaspoon of HC and an hour after that she was still at 53. Right now she is holding in the 50's. Anyway, you can read more about our experience on Sami's Condo for today.

You will probably see a definite rise in Morris's numbers after a half can of HC, and you will probably be able to shoot, but definitely wait for one of the experts to come along and provide more advice.
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

You do feed the 40s but at shot time, you need to stall and not feed. It's difficult to sort out how much of the increase is a BG level that's rising on it's own or a food spike. However, what's done is done and you'll know what to do for the future.

Are you going to be around? Can you stall? (And do you have strips, etc?)
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

I have had great success feeding Basil's lows (40 and low 4os) with LC food. He comes back up without "resorting" to the HC, which I think it is best to avoid if you can.

I have never had a pre-shot in the 40s though! Sienne, are you saying that the thing to do is the old stall-and-test to see if the cat is coming back up? How far up out of the 40s would you say to look for? aI presume at some point, if he keeps going down, you feed meal and call it a fur shot?
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

Lydia - I think it's a balancing act at PS time. A 47 is on the edge. I wouldn't shoot a number in the 40s. But, I'd want to see where that number was going before adding food into the mix. If the number is up by 10 points in 15 min., it would look like things are heading up. If it's a surf or lower, the other options are a reduced dose or a skipped shot.

Gwen - I just re-read your post that you have to leave. I missed the info. Let's see the re-test. I think if you skip entirely, it's going to be a big bounce for PMPS. I think you should shoot something if it's safe.
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

Well...........IMO this is already one big pile of dodo, so my call would be to skip it. You can't shoot any kind of guess dose on this low number and with god only knows how much jelly doughnuts thrown in there. If you can't be home to test there is no way to know what is safe. In the future (note: the 47 earned him a decrease anyway, unless he needs <40)? when you have a lower PS don't feed even if it is below 50 (below 30 yes feed, and watch for symptoms) test every 20 min. or so until you have a rise, then if you can check shoot you dose, or if you can't check or the number is still low and surfing and you need to shoot (to leave for work etc.) then you can BCS dose it, to at least put something into the shed.

But for today I would skip it, you have already got 5 variables being changed at once, no experement like that can give any reliable result.
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

It was unfortunate that none of the dose experts were around this morning while I was still home to help me out. I did what I thought was best at the time......and will learn from it!

He was at 47 when I did the first test.....I then gave 1/2 can HC & retested.....he was up to 65. I did not want to miss the dose entirely, so I shot 1.00u. I guess, in hindsight, since I had given the HC when not totally required, I could probably have given him a dosecrease to 1.25u.

I should be home today at around +9 and will see where he is at then. I guess he has earned his dosecrease back down to 1.25u.....depending on his numbers this evening, I will decide if I give him the dosecrease tonight or tomorrow morning.

He will be spending next weekend in the kennel.....I was hoping to be at either 1.0u or 1.5u for then.....not sure if they are up to drawing up a 1.25u!!!
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

Gwen--you did great! I don't know about you, but I wasn't born knowing any of this stuff. :-D

I feel as if I am learning more every day. I think once Basil is in remission, I'll be an expert at what I should have done to get him there. But even when I don't do the thing that was ideal, I tell myself I could be back doing this whole thing blind. I don't even like to think about where that might have ended up.
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

If I can make a suggestion...

Right now it seems like there is intermittent coverage in the mornings by the more experienced members. I consider myself about at the halfway point but no where near as experienced as Jill, Libby, Cassandra, CD, Heather or Carolyn and some of the others who haven't been around for a while. Monique and Miriam are often here in the mornings and can lend a hand.

If you are pressed for time, probably giving more than 15 - 20 min. before you need to shoot, may not be enough time given who you are looking for to provide input. Several of the people I noted are around primarily in the evenings. As much time as you can give to get a response will help. We did our best but I think you were already gone by the time we were able to post.
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

Hi Gwen. In my opinion, you did fine. Yes, I always feed the 40's. I believe in safety first especially if the bean has to go to work. Even if it is just before shot time, I would not let a kitty hang around the 40's without a little food. If you could have stayed home... maybe MC would have been ok.

Now after Morris had half a can of HC his BG was only 65. That isn't a big spike so IMO he handled it just fine and I hope he went even higher later. Then you gave a reduced dose, again that is what I would have done. If you were on a smaller dose, I would have said skip it altogether.

For the safety of the kitty who is not able to be monitored, you did the right thing. I would much rather lose momentum than put a kitty in danger, so I would always vote for the conservative route. You can regain the pace when you are able to monitor.

If you had given LC, I'm not sure Morris would have risen very much. I know the common thought is to NOT feed just before shooting, but sometimes you have to do it. This was one of those times. It is best to stall to see if BG is rising before giving food, but nothing is perfect and hanging out in the 40's (without food) makes me very uncomfortable unless you were sitting right next to Morris all day.

The Rand protocol does suggest feeding when the BG is too low to shoot. (We use a modified version of the the Tilly/Rand protocol.)
They say:
   a) Feed the cat and reduce dose by .25 or .50
   b) Feed the cat, wait 1-2 hours to see if BG rises above 100, give normal dose
   c) Split the dose, feed the cat, give remainder of dose 1-2 hours later when BG is above 100. (I don't think we have ever suggested this one.)

We usually say:
    1) Stall and retest in 15-30 to see if BG is rising or stable so you can shoot full dose
    2) Shoot reduced dose (BCS dose)
    3) Skip shot

You did option a). :-D

I think in this case, it was fine. I occasionally had to feed/stall/shoot when my kitty was going OTJ. This method is used less frequently these days, but it worked well for me.

Edit: I went back and re-read the thread and you had lots of good advice. Sienne was trying to get you to find out which way Morris was heading before the food intervened. That is the safest thing to do if you had time - then make a decision about if/what to shoot and feed.
And Monique had a good point too, hahaha, (big pile of doodoo) and there were many variables that would influence the BG.
The main problem was lack of time to stall and regroup. But that's ok, move on! Tonight we'll see how it all affected Morris's numbers.
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

Thanks for the feedback Sienne & CD!

My mornings are quite hectic on a regular day (dealing with myself, Morris, drooler & 2-legged kids!) and it is Murphy's Law that the days I am more pressed for time than usual happen to also be the days that Morris decides to give me funny numbers!!!

I will be home much more this weekend (have a few things to get the 2-legged kids to, but will be home more than I am on work days!) & will be able to monitor him a bit better then and see if I can find out where he is headed with these strange numbers! I will also be home most of this evening as dd has stayed home from school with an upset stomach today (she is on grandma's couch right now), so I will not be taking her to her swim practice this evening either.
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

Hi Gwen,

You did great this morning!!! As you go along sometimes you'll look back and say "omg, i really should have..." or " really? i did what?" as long as your cat is safe, that is all that matters.

When Marco was still getting his shots his shot time was when some of the dosing experts were already at work, or asleep :shock: so sometimes I just had to go with what I felt. Try and remember what they have told me before / what I read in other condos. It looks like this may be your case too.

Are you on facebook? A lot of us are friends on there and sometimes I would use my status to get an expert to come see my condo. "ATTN: FDMB members can you see Morris' condo today. Need Help" or something like that.


Some stuff that worked for me:

Preshots: I tried to set the time so that I had at least 30 minutes before I had to leave. That way if I needed to stall, I could.

Low Numbers in cycle: I only fed the HC gravy, JUST in case I needed to feed again because the numbers were low - he wouldn't be too full. If I had to run out, I put about 2 teaspoonfuls of HC food on top of the food that I would normally leave out for him to snack on while I was gone. <--- that would calm my nerves!

Reading other condos helps a lot too! I lived on here when I wasn't in class or at work, just to try and soak up knowledge. Sometimes I would find Marco in a similar situation as another kitteh was in before. I could dig in my brain and think "what did they tell that bean to do?"

Morris is doing sooooo great! :)
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

"Thank you to Jen & Celia for expalining more about the food/BG relationship - I understand it a bit better now, but I still don't know what to do! Do I go back to feeding him 2 cans of Friskies per day (even though I have heard from several people that feeding him that much is WAY too much) & face the possibilty of having to throw some of it out each day, or keep with his current routine of 1 can of Friskies or EVO plus 1 can of Fancy Feast per day."

From the other day. When Marco was on insulin it wasn't out of question for him to eat 1 can of Friskies per 12 hours. Sometimes I would throw out the food that was left over, but I'd rather waste some food than for him to start going low and not have any food available for him to eat in order to bring himself back up. :cry: That was always my biggest fear, that I wouldn't leave out enough food for him and then he'd go too low while I was gone and he'd hypo. Just like our appetites fluctuate so do theirs. Now that he is diet controlled, some days he eats all the food I put out while I am at work and there isn't a crumb left, other days it looks like he slept all day and barely touched his food. Some goes wasted, but it's there for him to snack on if he wants it. You really have to go by the saying ECID "Every Cat is Different" Maybe for one person's cat 2 cans is way too much, but for Morris perhaps right now he needs the 2 cans... and when he stays in the lower bloos and greens later perhaps 2 cans will be way too much for him and he will only eat 1 can. For me getting those numbers steady and under control was more of my concern than how much Marco wasn't supposed to be eating. He maintained his own weight, and fed his own curves, and didn't ever get too big.

Someone once told me "Celia; our cats eat when they need to eat. They aren't like us humans who eat for pleasure."

I always used myself as an example when thinking about my furkids eating habits. I out eat dbf on a daily basis, regardless of the fact that he is taller and heavier than I am and is more active. I out eat my parents even though both of them out weigh me by more than 60lbs. I'm not fat, I just have a big appetite. :lol: If someone decides to take away my food or try and regulate my food.... oh they are up for a fight! :lol:
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

Gwen:

No worries! Not everyone has to deal with the juggling act you described and no doubt, even if you were to move shot times, like you said, Murphy would raise his head and spit at you!

I'm not usually around at the time you were posting. Personally, I was a little worried about where you went but I also knew you'd fed Morris and he'd be good. (I just wanted to make sure loose ends were tied up and you and Morris were both OK.)
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47 - now 65!! dose advice??

Sienne and Gabby said:
Right now it seems like there is intermittent coverage in the mornings by the more experienced members. I consider myself about at the halfway point but no where near as experienced as Jill, Libby, Cassandra, CD, Heather or Carolyn and some of the others who haven't been around for a while. Monique and Miriam are often here in the mornings and can lend a hand.
Click to expand...
Actually, Morris & I haven't seen much of the pros around our condo lately! I guess Morris was feeling neglected & decided to throw some funky numbers our way & get everyone's attention! :lol:

CD and BigMac said:
The main problem was lack of time to stall and regroup. But that's ok, move on! Tonight we'll see how it all affected Morris's numbers.
Click to expand...
Yes, I am very curious to see where he will be tonight! I will test as soon as I get home (around +9) and post here.....at least tonight, I will have more time than I did this morning!

Celia & Marco said:
Are you on facebook?
Click to expand...
No. I was in a car accident 1.5 years ago & my lawyer has asked that I keep myself, dh & the kids off Facebook until my claim is settled!

Celia & Marco said:
I only fed the HC gravy, JUST in case I needed to feed again
Click to expand...
I now only have 1 can of HC Friskies left (left from before diagnosis!). I was thinking that I will restock with some MC & HC of Fancy Feast as those cans are smaller & I can give him smaller amounts easier that way!

Celia & Marco said:
Someone once told me "Celia; our cats eat when they need to eat. They aren't like us humans who eat for pleasure." :lol:
Click to expand...
That sounds reasonable. I was planning on taking him to the vet office tomorrow just to get him weighed. If he is still around what he weighed last time, I guess then I don't really need to be super concerned about his intake!

Sienne and Gabby said:
Personally, I was a little worried about where you went but I also knew you'd fed Morris and he'd be good. (I just wanted to make sure loose ends were tied up and you and Morris were both OK.)
Click to expand...
Thanks Sienne! Yes, I am fine & I sure hope Morris is fine as well! I just had to leave the puter for a bit.....drop dd off at my parent's house & then get to work! Now, as you can see, I am VERY hard at work!!!! :thumbup
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47; +9 310

Not nearly as bad as I was expecting!!!! Will try to remember to do another reading in an hour & see where he is headed.
 
Re: 2/05 Morris AMPS 47; +9 310; =10 337; PMPS 358

Still climbing at PMPS time! Thought about staying at 1.50u for 1 more dose since I gave a BCS dose this morning, but then decided that 358 really isn't super high either.....gave him his dosecrease back down to 1.25u this evening.

Dh & I met a couple of friends for a couple (or more!) beverages this evening.....will do my best to stay up for a +1 reading, but I am feeling VERY relaxed right now! LOL!

drinking24
 
Now this is the kind of number I expect to see after giving a BCS dose this morning! Thankfully, I am nice & relaxed still from my drinks earlier, so this number is not bothering me as much as it would normally!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hopefully, we will see some better numbers tomorrow!
 
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