18 year old male just diagnosed

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jettcat

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Updating here. Loki went from 400 at 6 today to 20 at 1230 ish tonight. I want to thank you all for recommending the meter. I was sure it was wrong, i dont know enough to even believe that that kind of drop is possible. He is at the er overnight, getting fluids and sugars. They will keep him till nine, whe i go back to my vet. Dear god, what do i do? If one shot did this. How do you tell the difference between the symptoms of super high and super low? The er doc said that 18 or 19 year old cats react in wierd ways, and that regulating can be a roller coaster, but please tell me someone knows a trick. Loki is 18 and a half, currently 6.13 lbs....though normally hes only 7 or 8 at his heaviest. I think he already has dementia from being starved before i took him in, but up till a few days ago beat the crud out of my 20 pound monster panther cat. Is age really that much of a factor?
Help. I really don't want to punch my vet tommorow.

Jett Cat-lady extraordinaire who caters to Lord Loki SmallPaws and Sir Vestrial Longtooth

The board said to introduce myself and my cat here. I just got a call from my vet. He said its Diabetes. Lord Loki Smallpaws is a 18ish year old Siamese mix? I got him from a shelter in 1997. He was in bad shape, but quickly rebounded. I am a sucker for underdogs. Anyways he started acting really odd this morning and had been loosing weight. So I of-course freaked out and took him to the vet this afternoon. The Vet called a few minutes ago and said he had a blood sugar count over 400, and some liver numbers that were off. He thinks those will stabilize with the insulin.
So here is my hope, what do i need to know when i go to pick him up at five? He has to stay to get fluids. I see there are lots of Insulin choices, testers, food?
Finances suck right now, I am in College, so poor is another word, but i a willing to bust out the cards. I just dont know what reasonable prices are for all of this!

Help, i know my boy is old, but i have had him for literally half my life. Is there a site where i can see reasonable prices and options? I got lost in the technical pages of your posts. Is there a abcs for beginners? One that isnt super filled with cbcs and hypodiporsias?


I went through crystals and the removal of the penis with my other cat, i can do this, it just seems far more complex.

Thank you very much...panic Girl
 
Ok

1. Ask your vet if he supports home testing. This is key to managing the diabetes and keeping your cat safe. You don't need the expensive pet meter called the alpha trak. We can recommend cheaper and reliable human ones.
Also if you home test you don't need to have the vet keep him for a day to do a "curve" which is where they measure his blood and recommend insulin dose. Problem with that is the cat is so stressed the blood sugar is high anyway and the dose they set is too high from that. You can do a curve at home with your own meter and its more reliable. We can recommend ones.

2. Insulin, the best insulins for cats are lantus, levemir or prozinc. Others don't work well in cats or are hard to manage, so tell him you want one of these. They may seem expensive at first but they last six months. Also if its lantus or levemir ask for a prescription for the pens. More durable and last longer.

3. Food, to manage the diabetes you want a low carb canned wet food. The vet may try and sell you a prescription one. These are expensive, unnecessary and cats get sick of them fast. We can recommend other low carb foods that will work.

Let us know how you get on at the vet and we can go from there

Wendy
 
Hi and welcome to the FDMB. You introduced your cat and give us his name. Lord Loki Smallpaws but your forgot to give us your name. Unless you want us to just call you Girl. ;-)

Just keep posting in this same post/thread/condo and we will answer whatever questions you may have.

Where do you live? There may be someone that lives near you to help you learn to hometest.

We have all been where you are now. We understand how stressful this can be. We will help to support you with knowledge to be confident you can help Lord Loki and the emotional support to get you through this stressful time.

My name is Deb. That picture over to the right is my sugardude Wink. He's a foster cat from my local shelter and was in rough shape when I brought him home. He is so much better now and with a diet switch from dry to wet low carb food, Fancy Feast classics and Friskies pates, I was able to get him off the insulin 4 months ago.

We'll work with you and answer any questions you may have. If we say something you do not understand, let us know and we will try to clarify. Feline diabetes has some new terminology and we have our own unique language.

Hang it there. It will get better. Sending {{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}} and calming vines to you.
 
Vet gave me Novlixin N, and a bunch of needles...He seemed supportive of the home testing, but confused i would want to do it. What meter should i get.....

Oh I am Jett, and I live in Tigard Oregon, thats a suburb of Portland. Sorry, my babies come first.

I am to give Loki one shot every 12 hrs or so at 2 on the 40 syringe.
I have to take him back in on friday for another blood count, and possible subcutaneous fluids. They gave him an IV today. I feel so bad i missed the dehydration. He's just so small compared to every other cat i have owned.

Anyways we gave him the shot there, i got him home a few minutes ago and he barfed and is hanging by the fountain. Is that normal? How long till it does something? Insulin shot about 6 its now 6 45.....
God this is as bad as the FLUTID/Struvite Crystals with my other boy.
what meter is best for a tiny cat. He was starved when i adopted him, so his growth was stunted, and normally he weighs 7-8 lbs, right now hes at 6.13.... temp was 98...

I am nuts i know, but advice is welcome. I currently feed them BLUE BUffalo wet food, and its not on the list you guys link to, is it okay to switch food... i know it can upset "geriatric" tummies, to switch, but what is the best thing to worry about, geriatric tummy, or diabetic food switch. I haven't put them on an elderly cat food, though, because i read they have more carbs, and my crystal cat doesnt do well with anything that fluctuates his PH.

Oh my goodness, balancing two old boys. !
Oh the vet said i do not need a prescription for insulin? And is it really like 25 for one type to 140 dollars for the animal based ones? Do i need a prescription for any type?


Rambling, adrenaline....when do i start to see a change in behaivior. He is back to lurking at the water bowl.
 
Ok deep breaths

First, novolin n isn't a great insulin for cats. It's really hard and pulls them down fast. It's hard to regulate them. When you go back on Friday insist on lantus, levemir or prozinc. They do cost more than the novolin but a vial will last you up to six months... And if it causes remission then its worth it! The window for remission is only 6months from diagnosis but many cats manage it... With the three factors in place I mentioned above.. Food, home testing and a good insulin.

You don't want to switch food before home testing, especially due to the insulin you are using. So I have provided a shopping list below.

Getting started shopping list
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

Wendy
 
Hi Jett. Welcome! I live in Wilsonville, Oregon, not too far from you. My cat, Tootoo was just diagnosed recently, and I joined here July 26th. Since I'm fairly new, I can't give you a lot of advice. I can tell you that I've gotten a ton of help here, and as a result of following the protocol recommended by the members, my cat is doing very well. It's been tough for me because of my busy schedule, but with this group's support I've been able to make it work so far. I've also spent a lot less money following the advice here. So this group can really help you! Keep posting! (Don't get discouraged because of the technical stuff. They will help you with that too as needed!)
 
Um, Loki is just sitting with his head over a water bowl and when he does get up hes unsteady, its the same as when he went in, is this hypoglyciemia, from shot, or is shot just not doing anything?
 
Not really, he mentioned that it appeared Loki peed on the towel i brought with him.....he likes the scent from home, and said something about it not smelling like ammonia, cause diabetic pee is like that? It did not smell like pee, i know that smell well as Sir Vestrial Longtooth my other 18 year old spoiled brat had crystals, and still likes to pee on a pee pad and not in the litter box.
Is that a keytone issue, no ammonia smell?
 
Sorry for being crazy here, but when should i start using the monitor thing? I got one, test strips, do i need to use alchohol wipes? I got those too. Do i need to wait for the insuline to kick in, or start my curve now?
 
Jett, we always test before shooting insulin...amps is the morning preshot and pmps is the evening preshot. When someone asks you how long it has been since you gave the shot you need to respond with a + and then a number. So if you gave him insulin tonight at say 6 p.m. and it has been 3 hrs. since the shot and you now test him, you would then write that he is as such and such a number at +3.

Are you able to test him right now? If you can, please post back what the reading is and how long since the shot was given. I'm 3 hrs. ahead of you here in MI so it is 1:40 a.m. here and I'm not sure if this board is on Central time, mountain time, etc.

With N insulin you need to feed at least a 1/2 hr. before giving the insulin so food is on board. Fast acting insulin, short duration and of major concern to me is you wrote:
or so at 2 on the 40 syringe
Click to expand...
N is a U 100 insulin and U 100 syringes need to be used. Are you sure that vet gave you U 40 syringes or is that a mistake on your part and the syringes you have are U 100?
 
Hope + (((Baby)))GA said:
N is a U 100 insulin and U 100 syringes need to be used. Are you sure that vet gave you U 40 syringes or is that a mistake on your part and the syringes you have are U 100?
Click to expand...

Jett,
Are you around? That is really important, do you have U40 syringes or U100?
If someone uses U-100 insulin with syringes labeled for U-40 insulin, there's a mismatch, and a risk of getting 2.5 times as much insulin as expected. So ifthey gave you U40 syringes, he would of gotten 5 units with a U40 syringe. I know nothing about the Novolin N, but I am pretty sure 5 units is way too much for an initial dose without testing. And he is such a small kitty.

Has he eaten? Did you manage to get a test? I worry about hypo with no food and the symptoms you are describing. Please test if you can and let us know.
 
the vet gave him the shot at the office he did not tell me he ate, but he had fluids, the syringe is u-40 monject. i just tested him and it came up low... the bottle says 40u cc ... the vet did say he diluted the insuline. I am eyeballing the syrup...

He wont eat!
 
he is acting the way he did when i took him in , lethargic , limpy in the butt, and wont eat, laying head over water
 
How long ago did you test? Did you get a number on the test? He hasn't eaten since you've been home?
 
tested about 20 min ago , no he hasnt eaten, monitor just said lo, so i have been trying to figure out what that means, book says 20?

Using a truetrack, my friend picked it up for me, seen mixed reviews
 
What meter are you using? I am not familiar with the different meters.
Jett, change the icon to this post to "911" (edit your original first message) and see if we can get someone over here with more experience to help you more, okay? Although my kitty has been diabetic for over a year, I am fairly new to the forum myself.
 
Jett, change your very 1st post you made here at the very top, to 911 so it shows up in the board index
 
:cry: day one..... apparently my meter was correct, er confirmed him at blood glucose 21. So i suppose my two 20's were right. Thank you all so much, i would never have picked up a meter or figured out how to use it. The er vet asked if this was my second rodeo, since i walked in the door informing them of his numbers, dosage, and seemingly increased, nueropthy?, in his legs. They are keeping him until 9 tomorrow when we will go back to the vet. I don't know how i am not gonna punch him, although the er guy said welcome to figuring out stability. Really nicely. Apparently 18 ish or 19 ish year old cats react to dosages in many ways.

I have no idea how i am gonna give him anymore insulin. I swear it just made him weaker. Advice for vet tommorow?
 
Oh I am so glad you went to the ER. I was so worried.
The one thing I do know, like someone mentioned before, when you go back, I would insist on a insulin that's less harsh, like Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc.
Have you been seeing this vet for a long time?
 
He treated Vestrials Struvite Crystals. He was the only Vet who was willing to listen to my ramblings about distilled water, high protein diets, and not shove waltham, Hills, or whatever down my throat.
 
Well, if you trust this vet, discuss the proper insulin, ask about ketones. If your baby isn't eating, they need to check for ketones to rule out diabetic ketoacidosis. You can get keto stix from the pharmacy to check at home also (just need to dip in urine). Make sure he realizes he isnt eating, because he really needs to eat.
 
That LO could have been anything 20 or below. I am so so so glad you tested, and got him to the ER. You could have very well just saved his life. Cats that have a symptomatic hypo will often be extra sensitive to insulin afterwards.
I am so glad you learned to test your cat. You will probably have to give him a lot less insulin now. Please continue testing, and getting advice on this board.
 
Did the vet also find glucose in the urine when he told you he had diabetes? I also do not understand this vet diluting N insulin and having you use U 40 syringes. It is a U 100 insulin and you cannot make it into a U 40 insulin! Years ago many of us used Humulin Insulins and they were U 100. Out came IDEXX PZI and U 40 syringes. I don't even remember anyone way back talking about using a U 40 syringe. I still don't because I use the conversion chart for a U 40 insulin with a U 100 syringe. N is not a U 40 insulin, plain and simple.

MC was dx'd at 16, was 17 this past May and is on a PZI U 40 insulin. What I would suggest is bring him home, feed him canned, and continue testing and getting some numbers, and try to get some urine samples and test for not only glucose but especially for ketones. Even a soup ladle can catch urine for a sample.

Did the vet do a thyroid test on him? Did the vet check his kidney values? Please, do not give him anymore of that diluted down N insulin. That vet should never have done that and then marked it as a U 40 insulin.
 
How is he doing today? I assume the vet has been monitoring his BG ?

If the vet sees readings that he believes is diabetic then insist on a prescription for Lantus, levemir or prozinc and U-100 syringes. But dont fulfil it yet.

Lets get him home and test him for a few days to confirm he is diabetic first! We can totally help you with this.


Wendy
 
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