18 Oct | Girlie | AMPS 590; PMPS 178; +2=158; +3=106; +5=97

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Well look at Girlie! The poop + an increase = movement! Sometimes when Bubba was dropping fast I would just give Bubba a tsp or so of LC with every test to see if I could get him to surf. If he wanted to continue to drop quickly, I would then bring out the MC or HC. I agree with Wendy that when it's late in the cycle and the numbers are still nice and safe to just give LC to keep to drops minimal so you don't have a big carb spike along with a possible bounce.
 
Girlie's mom said:
the phosphorous is at a good level, the protein is too high.
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Like @LizzieInTexas I wonder what you mean by the protein is too high???

If it's CKD that you are concerned about, current thinking is that its the quality of the protein that's important.
It used to be thought that a low protein diet was better for the kidneys, but it's the quality of the protein source that's important.

Nice numbers, hope she's got her surfboard out.
 
Gill & George said:
Like @LizzieInTexas I wonder what you mean by the protein is too high???

If it's CKD that you are concerned about, current thinking is that its the quality of the protein that's important.
It used to be thought that a low protein diet was better for the kidneys, but it's the quality of the protein source that's important.

Nice numbers, hope she's got her surfboard out.
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Re: the protein: I wondered about that, too. She has mentioned that before, and when I do a urinalysis, she's interested in the protein (usually "trace" in her tests). It has something to do with the vet's view of CKD. She said that if Girlie wasn't diabetic, that she'd recommend a CDK, low protein diet (ca 3%, I think?). From what I've read, the specific CKD food out there (Hills, etc.) aren't really good for CKD cats. Interestingly, Girlie's lab results show that her phosphate is fine; her protein is fine; but her urea (BUN) is high (20 mmol/L) and creatinine is high (290; was 190 in July). SDMA is 17 (mildly high). And her cholesterol is high (8.4). I don't know where this puts her on the CKD spectrum, though; I'll have to research that. Just by the by, her lab results are in her SS now.

As I don't feed a raw diet, I wonder how I would know whether the protein source in the canned foods is good enough? Would that depend on the brand?

She's doing okay now re: surfing: 97 @ +5. She hasn't eaten anything since +3:30: she's just not hungry tonight, probably because she ate a lot more than usual today.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Well look at Girlie! The poop + an increase = movement! Sometimes when Bubba was dropping fast I would just give Bubba a tsp or so of LC with every test to see if I could get him to surf. If he wanted to continue to drop quickly, I would then bring out the MC or HC. I agree with Wendy that when it's late in the cycle and the numbers are still nice and safe to just give LC to keep to drops minimal so you don't have a big carb spike along with a possible bounce.
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AVJ is on the way, Bobbie - should be here next week. I can't wait! Both my cats are going to get it, and from what I've read about what else it's good for, I'm going to try it myself. :-)

She's not hungry, so I think I'll just see how she goes with the drop @ +5 to 97 (green! yay!) as the night goes on. I don't want to give her too much food in case she decides to do a dive. I'm not used to night drops, and don't have as much data on that as she tends to drop more during the day - or at least, that's what I've noticed....

How will I know, I wonder, when it's okay for me to go to sleep? Her lowest number during the day today was at +8 (149), which is unusual for her: usually I see her lowest numbers from +2 to +4/5. I think I mentioned above that the last food she ate was HC gravy at PM+3.

I'm so tired I can't think straight; been up since 3:00 am this morning. What do you think? I just can't think right now! :confused: Maybe I'll just wait and see where she is at +6 without food and then make a decision? If she's still going down then, I assume I should still keep checking?
 
LizzieInTexas said:
?? For what?

The Chick Magnet has great gravy and it is easy to get it out. Just tear off a small corner and squeeze it out. The meat will stay in the pouch.

Another trick I use is MC/HC gravy gets a special bowl. It is a small metal bowl and I make a big deal with the clink of the spoon in it and "talk" it up to him and act like it is s big deal. Now all I have to do is clink the spoon on the metal bowl and he is there waiting for his "treat" :p even if he isn't hungry.
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Wonderful! Such great gravy tips! Thank you so much... :):bighug:
 
Girlie's mom said:
Re: the protein: I wondered about that, too. She has mentioned that before, and when I do a urinalysis, she's interested in the protein (usually "trace" in her tests). It has something to do with the vet's view of CKD. She said that if Girlie wasn't diabetic, that she'd recommend a CDK, low protein diet (ca 3%, I think?). From what I've read, the specific CKD food out there (Hills, etc.) aren't really good for CKD cats. Interestingly, Girlie's lab results show that her phosphate is fine; her protein is fine; but her urea (BUN) is high (20 mmol/L) and creatinine is high (290; was 190 in July). SDMA is 17 (mildly high). And her cholesterol is high (8.4). I don't know where this puts her on the CKD spectrum, though; I'll have to research that. Just by the by, her lab results are in her SS now.

As I don't feed a raw diet, I wonder how I would know whether the protein source in the canned foods is good enough? Would that depend on the brand?

She's doing okay now re: surfing: 97 @ +5. She hasn't eaten anything since +3:30: she's just not hungry tonight, probably because she ate a lot more than usual today.
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George has early ckd stage 2.
The food I have researched for him is high in protein and has P below 1%, most of the food I feed is made in Germany, and is made with human grade protein some of it organic. I doubt whether they are available in Aus.
But Here's four of the varieties I feed.
http://www.granatapet.de/Katze/Nassfutter-Katze/Lachs-Pute-in-natuerlichem-Gelee-html/# (sorry no english language option with this site, but maybe you'll manage since you lived in berlin)
https://www.feringa-katzenfutter.de/en/
https://www.terrafaelis.co.uk/
https://thrivepetfoods.com/cats/wet-food

Not all of the varieties from these manufacturers are low in Phosphorus, so I pick and chose.
Ideally a homemade/raw food diet would probably be better but I'm not in a position at the moment to be able to do that, so I've tried to pick the best I can.
Have you come across http://catinfo.org/ search for CKD and read the section on what Dr Lisa thinks of Renal Diets....

Here's an extract from that section
Renal’ diets restrict protein to the point that many cats – those that are not consuming enough of the diet to provide their daily protein calorie needs – will catabolize (use for fuel) their own muscle mass which results in muscle wasting and weight loss.

This internal breakdown of the cat’s own muscle mass will cause an increase in creatinine (and BUN) which needs to be cleared by the kidneys. The rise in creatinine and BUN, and muscle wasting, can lead to an often-erroneous conclusion that the patient’s CKD is worsening.

But please read the link to where this is taken from so that you don't take it out of context.
Reading around the subject of protein in cats diets, it seems that elderly cats don't absorb protein as well as younger cats, and consequently suffer loss of muscle mass, so if anything are older feline friends need more good protein than a younger cat.
 
Gill & George said:
George has early ckd stage 2.
The food I have researched for him is high in protein and has P below 1%, most of the food I feed is made in Germany, and is made with human grade protein some of it organic. I doubt whether they are available in Aus.
But Here's four of the varieties I feed.
http://www.granatapet.de/Katze/Nassfutter-Katze/Lachs-Pute-in-natuerlichem-Gelee-html/# (sorry no english language option with this site, but maybe you'll manage since you lived in berlin)
https://www.feringa-katzenfutter.de/en/
https://www.terrafaelis.co.uk/
https://thrivepetfoods.com/cats/wet-food

Not all of the varieties from these manufacturers are low in Phosphorus, so I pick and chose.
Ideally a homemade/raw food diet would probably be better but I'm not in a position at the moment to be able to do that, so I've tried to pick the best I can.
Have you come across http://catinfo.org/ search for CKD and read the section on what Dr Lisa thinks of Renal Diets....

Here's an extract from that section
Renal’ diets restrict protein to the point that many cats – those that are not consuming enough of the diet to provide their daily protein calorie needs – will catabolize (use for fuel) their own muscle mass which results in muscle wasting and weight loss.

This internal breakdown of the cat’s own muscle mass will cause an increase in creatinine (and BUN) which needs to be cleared by the kidneys. The rise in creatinine and BUN, and muscle wasting, can lead to an often-erroneous conclusion that the patient’s CKD is worsening.

But please read the link to where this is taken from so that you don't take it out of context.
Reading around the subject of protein in cats diets, it seems that elderly cats don't absorb protein as well as younger cats, and consequently suffer loss of muscle mass, so if anything are older feline friends need more good protein than a younger cat.
Click to expand...

Fantastic info: thank you so, so much for that! I've read the catinfo site several times, but it's a lot of info to absorb.

I'll check out those different foods; the German won't be a problem (I say confidently after being away since 1994!, so we'll see) :-)

I can get ZiwiPeak; just looking at the first food link reminds me of that, but the protein is much higher in that (32 - 36), and the phosphate is higher as well. I'll do more thorough research tomorrow; thank you again!

I can't do raw right now, either, but maybe in future.

I've been wondering about Taurine; do you add that to George's diet?
 
Girlie's mom said:
I left some HC at +8 because I had to leave, and the MC and HC I gave her earlier had no affect: she just continued going determinedly down. I'll give her the 0.75 and monitor closely.

Should I try to stall with low MC (12) if she continues to dive, do you think, or just see how low she goes?
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I had meant the HC at +10. I can understand HC at +8 if you have to leave. Nice cycle tonight - glad she ditched the basic black.
 
She had a really nice run in blues last night and look! ...... she is already clearing the bounce at +4.:)

As she starts getting used to being in numbers under 200, she could start to flatten out some. The more data you get on her during that time, she will start to revel a pattern for you to be able to gauge how she could react at a certain point in a cycle. I am hopeful that that time is right around the corner for her. :cat:
 
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