12th July - Karre AMPS 4.7 / 85 --- Questions

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Jane & Jack & Karre the Emperor

Jane & Jack & Karre the Emperor

Member Since 2009
Greetings, LL!

Karre's 11th July Condo

So, we're a bit puzzled about yesterday's run-up to the PM-cycle, and the beginning thereof, which were both in the blues. Here's the BG sequence, starting with yesterday's AMPS and ending with today's, for ease of reference:

11th July
AMPS 4.7/85 --- Shot 0.5u --- Lowest pre-shot so far. Hubby thinks he accidentally skinnied the dose a tiny bit.
(+1) 4.3/77
(+2) 4.4/79
(+3) 4.1/74 --- Lowest BG since relapse (on the 4th of July).
(+6) 4.5/81
(+10) 5.2/94
(+11) 5.6/101
PMPS 6.0/108 --- Shot 0.5u (definitely no skinny).
(+1) 7.3/131 --- This is where it got a bit puzzling. Seems like quite a rise for Karre. (I know. We're *verra* spoiled. Ducking for wet noodles.)
(+2) 4.7/85 --- And that's quite a drop for only one hour. Mr. P helping out on top of insulin?
(+3) 4.4/79
(+11) 5.2/94 --- Back to what we're used to seeing.
12th July
AMPS 4.7/85 --- Perfect again (though again a slightly dropping number. But we've had that several mornings now and we watch him so closely, it's never been a problem.)
(+1) 4.2/76

We have a few ideas about this and would love some feedback.
- Hubby Jack says that Karre got quite stressed last night at PMPS-time. He wanted to go outside, and Jack stopped him, since it was test/shoot/feed time, and he got really frazzled. We've seen how stress can bump up BGs. Is that the most likely cause for that 7.3/131? It's been a few cycles since we saw that sort of blue.
- The accidental skinny would have been tiny, a drop at most. Even so, could it have contributed to this (thankfully short-lived) blue blip? As in, could Mr. P have decided, since there wasn't quite enough Lantus, he'd help out a bit, causing that quite decetnt drop from 7.3/131 to 4.7/85 in one hour?

We're a bit confused. Any thoughts?

This morning, Karre is doing beautifully again. Looks like he's getting ready for another green surf. He's in good spirits and completely relaxed. He's had his usual LC-Fancy Feast breffis and a little garden walk. He obviously doesn't see what the fuss was about - oh how much we can learn from our Emperor! :-)

Happy cycling, everyone!
Jane
 
Looks like Karre is going to have a nice green kinda day!
Love when that happens!
Hopefully yesterday was just a blip and he will continue to stay in the greens
Hope you have a great day with great numbers! :mrgreen:
 
dmartini4 said:
Looks like Karre is going to have a nice green kinda day!
Love when that happens!
Hopefully yesterday was just a blip and he will continue to stay in the greens
Hope you have a great day with great numbers! :mrgreen:
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Your words in the sugargods' ears, Denise! Crazy but true:

(+3) 4.2/76

FLAT as can be. Did a cross-check on myself to make sure the Accu-Chek wasn't malfunctioning. But it's not. It really is 3 whole hours of green flatness :-)

Jane
 
Hooray, Nicole (the newbie on Facebook's FDMB group) has agreed to register :-) I'm so happy she's going to join FDMB and get the amazing support that's available here! At the moment, she's having trouble with the registration process, though - she says she "can’t get past the question: The value of “The middle number, please (answer 3)” Then underneath shows 123
Keep getting an error message saying “The middle number, please (answer 3) is too small, a minimum value of 3 is required.” When we registered, we never came across something like that, so I'm a bit lost. Has anyone got an idea about this? I've already suggested that she email the webmaster (as suggested on FDMB troubleshooting) to get some assistance, and I'm sure she will.

I'll let you guys know when she's had some help and when she's going to post on Health. She updated on Facebook saying that the vets in the 24-hour clinic where Frosti is being treated for DKA think that she should not be on 2.5u and intend to put her on 5u (still Caninsulin, I understand) instead... I worry about that. I hope Nicole gets here soon and can get some more feedback on dosing and all the rest.

Karre is still napping :-) We'll be back with the (+6).

Jane
 
Jane:

The way the cycle looks to me is that numbers went up at the end of the AMPS cycle into the first few hours of PMPS. It's possibly the result of s slightly skinny shot (i.e., not enough insulin so a little less duration) or it was just the way cycle went. Of course, the answer may be the answer to everything we can't explain: Karre's a cat. His job is to keep you confused.
 
Thanks for that perspective, Sienne :-)

So - barring more blue showing up, do you guys advise that we stick to the 0.5u? You and Libby have justifiedly reminded us that it's often useful to be fairly strict and aggressive with OtJ-Relapse-Kitties... Should we bump up the dose to 0.75u to get him into the lower greens? I'm comfortable with low numbers and work from home, so I am here to watch him...

What do you guys think?
Jane
 
Possible that he bounced a little off that 74 in the am cycle?

I'm also concerned about vets putting Frosti on 5 u but DKA has to be treated aggressively. IMO Nicole should confirm that they're monitoring closely.
 
You could probably increase but I'm thinking more in terms of fattening the dose since Karre is in green numbers. Also, keep in mind that you are able to reduce if Karre is largely in green (and normal) numbers for 7 days. I think this is your call.

FYI: I just looked at the FB thread regarding Frosti. There's a lot there that isn't being said and could ultimately confuse Nicole. A cat that's being treated for DKA is often on a large amount of insulin (basal and bolus doses with R being used as a bolus shot) because the cat is often on a dextrose drip. The dextrose drip provides fluids to help flush the ketones and the dextrose is providing some level of nutrition. It's a balancing act between the insulin and the sugar. This is why if ketones show up at home, we push getting any kind of food into a cat -- you can always adjust the insulin dose to compensate for higher carb food if that's what the cat will eat. To otherwise treat DKA, potassium and phosphorus levels are very carefully titrated.
 
Like I said - I've been pointing out to Nicole that in order to get the most balanced information amd support, she ought to join the Board. I'm sure she would benefit from your informing her of what you think she still needs to know to avoid confusion while she's not yet posting here. She is trying to register amd hopefully will receive help from the webmaster to do so soon.

Thanks for your feedback on Karre's dosing issue. If anyone else has some more thoughts, we'd welcome them too. We realize it's our call ultimately, but the reason we're posting here is that we know how much experience there is around that we have the privilege of relying on. Any input would be great. We're not sure what to do.

Jane
 
Hi Jane, thanks for visiting us. Karre is doing great. Hoping Nicole and Frosti get the help getting set up. It can be a challenge at first. Have a great day.
 
I've just gone through the old vet reports on Karre again, from when he was in DKA and had hepatic lipidosis. He was on 3u of Lantus, never more, and he was on a Ringers Lactate drip. That's all they told us, and what we have documented. I'm worried now that Nicole isn't getting enough information, though I really have tried to be as informative as I could and give her all the links and info and whatnot.

Sienne, if you feel that there is "a lot that isn't being said", please either post whatever is missing in the Facebook thread, or in here, so I can pass it on. I really am trying to be as helpful as I can. I'm sorry if I have left a lot of things out. If I did, it wasn't my intention. I'm sorry if I've not done enough to help her. I've spent several hours daily over the past few days trying to compile useful information. Again: Please, if things are missing, add them there. Or here, pointing out that they need to be passed on.

She's busy registering. She'll be on Health soon, hopefully, and ready to receive whatever other informtaion will help her and Frosti. She's scared right now because her kitty is hospitalized, and so many of us can relate to that. I didn't want to overwhelm her either.

We'll be back to post Karre's (+10). If he stays green this cycle, we'll consider yesterday's blues a blip.

If anyone disagrees and feels we need to up his dose, please tell us so. Thank all of you so much for your support!
Jane
 
verra nice cycling, Karre. :smile:

I don't think you need to change his dose. It doesn't matter if he is low green or high green, it's the green that matters. That one number last night, just ignore it unless it becomes a pattern.

I would probably hold onto this dose for a couple more days just for good measure, then if he stays under 120 overall try a reduction.

I'm glad all is well in Karre's world! I hope you are feeling better too.
 
Libby and Lucy said:
verra nice cycling, Karre. :smile:

I don't think you need to change his dose. It doesn't matter if he is low green or high green, it's the green that matters. That one number last night, just ignore it unless it becomes a pattern.

I would probably hold onto this dose for a couple more days just for good measure, then if he stays under 120 overall try a reduction.

I'm glad all is well in Karre's world! I hope you are feeling better too.
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((Libby and Lucy))

Thank you so much for this. Will do. I hope Lucy is as fab as ever, and that you're keeping well and happy!
Jane
 
Just wanted to pop in and say hi! I noticed you are from Cape Town! my mom lived there back in the late 40's, early 50's, when it was Rhodesia and her parents had a vineyard out there. Beautiful place. She sure misses the amazing weather!

hope Karre gets back OTJ soon for you!
 
Pip & Rupert said:
Just wanted to pop in and say hi! I noticed you are from Cape Town! my mom lived there back in the late 40's, early 50's, when it was Rhodesia and her parents had a vineyard out there. Beautiful place. She sure misses the amazing weather!

hope Karre gets back OTJ soon for you!
Click to expand...

Hi Pip, thanks for visiting us :-) Yes, we're in Cape Town! Rhodesia, while it existed, was actually further North, but you're right, it's beautiful country all across Southern Africa. I adore the vineyards I've been able to see, and we even got married on my dad's favourite one, to honour his memory. It's called Blaauwklippen :-)

Hope you're having a great day!
Jane
 
Hooray - all green again!! All day during the AM-cycle and through the PMPS to the evening (+3). Yay! Go Karre :-) We'll update with the numbers tomorrow. Too knackered right now. Been a rough day. But thanks for all the amazing help we got today on our queries. See you all tomorrow. It's bed time down here.

Jane
 
Hopeyou are all having a good night...get plenty of rest.... :mrgreen: You are really doing so much Jane...
good for YOu and good for Karre! He is looking great!
Keep up the great work you guys!! :thumbup
 
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