12/8 Henry PMPS 85 +1 78 +1.5 70 +2 71 +2.5 60 +3 63 + 4 75 +6 99

Good shooting.

Make sure you get a +1.
Just going to look back through the data.

Are you still doing SLGS? Or have you swapped to TR now that he's off the dry altogether?
 
OK, Henry's BG reading @ AMPS + 1 (156) ==>probably food spike ( fed (80) Calories of LC Wet Food) This feeding is a structured feeding four times daily of (80) calories each (6:00am, 11:30am, 6:00pm, & 11:30pm)

Will check at +2

Maybe a +3 would be better now that Henry has jumped to (156) @ +1

Now with regards to SLGS and TR ==> I would like to see Henry at a low of 70 for a while. I need to build more confidence and experience to go full blown TR.

SLGS has a low of (90) I would prefer a low of (70) right now and then possibly think about lowering the lower number threshold

I would like to have his low numbers right now to penetrate the top end of TR

His numbers now if they continue are in a comfortable range now for making well thought out decisions
 
In my opinion, you still need to collect more data. His breakthrough is pretty recent. I'd get a +2 every cycle, Robert. When Butters' numbers are good, I consistently get a +2 or +2.5. After a while, I almost always knew where Butters numbers' were heading that day based on her +2 or +2.5.

It's a really good habit to get into and reduces the chances of being caught off guard by a "surprise" drop, like what you had with Henry last night, for example. He technically earned a reduction last night since you follow SLGS, but you didn't reduce his dose this morning? I hope you had instructions from Marje to keep holding him at that dose.
 
Henry's BG reading @ AMPS + 2.5 (159)

The decision to stay with 3.75 units even though Henry clock a (65) last night was mine

Marje expressed her thoughts as to moving to quickly on back to back dose reductions.

I think she was suggesting the depot is still in play during reductions and if you do not allow enough time between reductions your BG numbers will be skewed.

This is why I stayed with 3.75 on today's AMPS

Next reading +5.5
 
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Butters & Lyla said:
In my opinion, you still need to collect more data. His breakthrough is pretty recent. I'd get a +2 every cycle, Robert. When Butters' numbers are good, I consistently get a +2 or +2.5. After a while, I almost always knew where Butters numbers' were heading that day based on her +2 or +2.5.

It's a really good habit to get into and reduces the chances of being caught off guard by a "surprise" drop, like what you had with Henry last night, for example. He technically earned a reduction last night since you follow SLGS, but you didn't reduce his dose this morning? I hope you had instructions from Marje to keep holding him at that dose.
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I agree 100% with Lyla.

Reminder of our discussion on this the other day. Having said that, you hold the syringe. We can offer you our advice, but Henry is your cat. If you are going to modify SLGS, you just need to post it on his SS and in your signature block. I’m not saying I think it’s a good idea but we need to be aware of changes you make.

I will say that we advise against picking and choosing which parts of TR or SLGS you follow or mixing/matching them. Yes, others have dropped the reduction point of SLGS to Shui their cat but they had more data at lower numbers and were to the point where they didn’t need advice.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I agree 100% with Lyla.

Reminder of our discussion on this the other day. Having said that, you hold the syringe. We can offer you our advice, but Henry is your cat. If you are going to modify SLGS, you just need to post it on his SS and in your signature block. I’m not saying I think it’s a good idea but we need to be aware of changes you make.

I will say that we advise against picking and choosing which parts of TR or SLGS you follow or mixing/matching them. Yes, others have dropped the reduction point of SLGS to Shui their cat but they had more data at lower numbers and were to the point where they didn’t need advice.
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Ok

Marje what is the range for BG numbers under the TR method? (50 -80)
 
Golf2015 said:
Ok

Marje what is the range for BG numbers under the TR method? (50 -80)
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I think you are asking about regulation? Here is how the different levels of regulation are defined:
  • Not treated [blood glucose typically above 300 mg/dl (16.7 mmol/L), poor clinical signs]
  • Treated but not regulated [often above 300 (16.7) and rarely near 100 (5.6), poor clinical signs]
  • Regulated [generally below 300 (16.7) with glucose nadir near 100 (5.6), good clinical signs, no hypoglycemia]
  • Well regulated [generally below 200-250 (11.1-13.9) and often near 100 (5.6), no hypoglycemia]
  • Tightly regulated [generally below 150 (8.3) and usually in the 60-120 (3.3-6.7) range, no hypoglycemia, still receiving insulin]
  • Normalized [60-120 (3.3-6.7) except perhaps directly after meals -- usually not receiving insulin]
A cat can be tightly regulated under SLGS so I’m not really sure your exact question. The reduction point under TR is, initially, a drop below 50. If you haven’t read it, the sticky on TR might be of value as you mull this over.


Golf2015 said:
Is the depot still in play during this last reduction?
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From which dose do you mean? It looks like the 4.25u depot is definitely drained and I doubt there is much from the 4u dose based on his upward trend.

This situation is a good example of the difference between TR and SLGS. Under SLGS, he’s earned a reduction. Under TR, he hasn’t but it also looks like he’s going to need to go back up to 4u. However, the 65 last night means we need to wait a bit to know for certain.
 
I would not alter whichever method you follow being so new to insulin. I would follow exactly as written for safety. Henry is a new diabetic so in my opinion you want to go with the tried and proven way. If you have looked at other condos where people have made adjustments it’s usually after being diabetic for a much longer time and usually not holding reductions. If you are not comfortable with low numbers think hard about switching to TR. I’m not suggesting you change or not. Of course if you try it and find it too stressful you can go back to SLGS at any time.
Henry has made tremendous progress!
 
Marje
tiffmaxee said:
I would not alter whichever method you follow being so new to insulin. I would follow exactly as written for safety. Henry is a new diabetic so in my opinion you want to go with the tried and proven way. If you have looked at other condos where people have made adjustments it’s usually after being diabetic for a much longer time and usually not holding reductions. If you are not comfortable with low numbers think hard about switching to TR. I’m not suggesting you change or not. Of course if you try it and find it too stressful you can go back to SLGS at any time.
Henry has made tremendous progress!
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Thank You for input
 
What’s your current feeding strategy-timings, amounts, carb %. ?[/QUOTE]

OK

Here is the feeding plan

We always feed Henry on AMPS & PMPS - two of the four for a 24 hour period

The other two is more or less locked in time wise - 11:30am EST & 11:30pm EST

Each feeding (80) calories is measured on a sensitive scale

Carbs almost always is 7% or less but sometimes Henry wants one that is 10%

Fancy Feast varieties are the 7% or less

The Earthborn is the 10%

Henry is a large cat - He measures from tip of nose to stretch out tail ==> 36 inches

When he was diagnosed for FD his weight was 25Lbs

He is about 4 pounds lighter - The vet says 16Lbs is his ideal weight being he is so LARGE

320 Calories (RER Formula) daily is for about a 16-1/2 - 17 pound cat

Hoping he will be at his ideal weight by summer or fall 2021
 
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I have a Henry (among my crew of 5) who is also rather ...portly ;)
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Robert

Have you noticed the big change since you completely stopped dry? You fed “some” dry on 12/3 but on 12/4, you stated he was 100% wet. Look how he changed (and I realize you also switched meters) once you really cut back then stopped the dry. I know it’s supposed to be LC dry but I’ve never been one to believe that any dry truly is LC and I don’t trust commercial food makers. The FDA doesn’t really police them as well as they should.
 
I was also superbly nervous about switching from SLGS to TR, but look at where Ruby is now. If I had a job that kept me away from the house for 10-12 hours a day I would not have been able to get Ruby tightly regulated, though I know others have done it and it is possible with a full time job. I also was having a lot of trouble testing her bg but we've overcome that. The lows are very scary at first--I did a lot of panicking and fed her HC when she didn't need it and spent a lot of nights staying up and testing and feeding and being worried generally. I've gotten over a lot of this in the last few weeks and now welcome every dip below 50 because that is a signal she needs a reduction, she doesn't need as much insulin, which all means PROGRESS. A lot of what Marje and the others here have been doing for you and the rest of us is psychological training: to trust the protocol and accumulate the hands on experience so we can handle what is thrown our way.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Robert

Have you noticed the big change since you completely stopped dry? You fed “some” dry on 12/3 but on 12/4, you stated he was 100% wet. Look how he changed (and I realize you also switched meters) once you really cut back then stopped the dry. I know it’s supposed to be LC dry but I’ve never been one to believe that any dry truly is LC and I don’t trust commercial food makers. The FDA doesn’t really police them as well as they should.
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I find that very interesting never crossed my mind that DR Elsey's 5% carb could be involved in the drop
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
I was also superbly nervous about switching from SLGS to TR, but look at where Ruby is now. If I had a job that kept me away from the house for 10-12 hours a day I would not have been able to get Ruby tightly regulated, though I know others have done it and it is possible with a full time job. I also was having a lot of trouble testing her bg but we've overcome that. The lows are very scary at first--I did a lot of panicking and fed her HC when she didn't need it and spent a lot of nights staying up and testing and feeding and being worried generally. I've gotten over a lot of this in the last few weeks and now welcome every dip below 50 because that is a signal she needs a reduction, she doesn't need as much insulin, which all means PROGRESS. A lot of what Marje and the others here have been doing for you and the rest of us is psychological training: to trust the protocol and accumulate the hands on experience so we can handle what is thrown our way.
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Thank you, Katherine, for posting this support for Robert. Ruby’s SS looks great!
 
So, what has Henry had to eat so far today, carb wise?

4% @ AMPS
10% @ 11:30am
 
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PerfumedCatMom said:
I was also superbly nervous about switching from SLGS to TR, but look at where Ruby is now. If I had a job that kept me away from the house for 10-12 hours a day I would not have been able to get Ruby tightly regulated, though I know others have done it and it is possible with a full time job. I also was having a lot of trouble testing her bg but we've overcome that. The lows are very scary at first--I did a lot of panicking and fed her HC when she didn't need it and spent a lot of nights staying up and testing and feeding and being worried generally. I've gotten over a lot of this in the last few weeks and now welcome every dip below 50 because that is a signal she needs a reduction, she doesn't need as much insulin, which all means PROGRESS. A lot of what Marje and the others here have been doing for you and the rest of us is psychological training: to trust the protocol and accumulate the hands on experience so we can handle what is thrown our way.
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You NAILED exactly what I was going thru both PHYSICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY

Thank you for seeing what I was going thru
 
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Golf2015 said:
Thank you for seeing what I was going thru
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None of us would be here if we did not love our cats as much as we do. Mine are my family as I suspect Henry is for you. Each day with have with them is a gift. I read through a lot of threads and look at spreadsheets daily and not every caregiver has the emotional wherewithal to do what you have done, so give yourself a nice pat on the back. It gets easier.
 
PerfumedCatMom said:
None of us would be here if we did not love our cats as much as we do. Mine are my family as I suspect Henry is for you. Each day with have with them is a gift. I read through a lot of threads and look at spreadsheets daily and not every caregiver has the emotional wherewithal to do what you have done, so give yourself a nice pat on the back. It gets easier.
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I felt so alone during this whole process and yes Henry just as important to me as mine own child
 
Golf2015 said:
I felt so alone during this whole process and yes Henry just as important to me as mine own child
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I know the feeling of loneliness, trust me. I have been so overwhelmed, first by the possibility of Ruby’s imminent mortality and then once I joined this board, by unfamiliar terminology, information and words of advice—it’s enough to make one’s head spin. But you have never been truly alone here because you have had the amazing support of Marj and everyone else. We are so lucky to have found this very special place!
 
Glad you got a +11. Looks like Henry likeis to have evening plans!!! How are you for shooting tonight? In other words, can you stay up and test?

With TR, we would shoot every number above 50 on time with the full dose as long as you are able and available to test. That doesn’t mean you have to do that tonight. You have the option to stall without feeding while testing every 20-30 mins and then shooting the rise. But it’s important to note that often, with a cycle like he’s had today where it looks like he’s clearing a mini-bounce, he might just keep dropping.

So that leaves the other option of shooting on time with the full dose as long as he’s above 50. I just don’t know how many people are around to help and I can only be with you until about +5. After that, I’m falling asleep which wouldn’t help you any. I bet Bhooma doesn’t come on till after that and I don’t know who else might be up on the west coast to help out.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Glad you got a +11. Looks like Henry likeis to have evening plans!!! How are you for shooting tonight? In other words, can you stay up and test?

With TR, we would shoot every number above 50 on time with the full dose as long as you are able and available to test. That doesn’t mean you have to do that tonight. You have the option to stall without feeding while testing every 20-30 mins and then shooting the rise. But it’s important to note that often, with a cycle like he’s had today where it looks like he’s clearing a mini-bounce, he might just keep dropping.

So that leaves the other option of shooting on time with the full dose as long as he’s above 50. I just don’t know how many people are around to help and I can only be with you until about +5. After that, I’m falling asleep which wouldn’t help you any. I bet Bhooma doesn’t come on till after that and I don’t know who else might be up on the west coast to help out.
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I guess I'll shoot and take your support up to +5
 
Golf2015 said:
I guess I'll shoot and take your support up to +5
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You know what to do. You’ve done a really good job with his green numbers.

Just be sure that you give him a good solid meal when you shoot and test at +1. I have to run out so won’t be here at PMPS so post for help if you need it. I’ll be back before +1. Do not shoot below 50 :cool:
 
Henry's PMPS BG reading is (85)

Henry was fed his meal after BG reading
 
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Just poking my nose in, I see Henry's middle name is shenanigans today! He's flattened out now, as Marje said you can shoot above 50, then get a test at +1, just to get a feel for how the cycle might go. 85 really isn't much different than 105 which you shot earlier today :). I can hang with you for a while close to just after +6. Glad to see Mr. Shenanigans is doing so well, you are doing a great job.
 
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