12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 2-On Hold Again
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Linda for Weezer
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 Hoping for uneventful day!
That's a great AMPS, considering no insulin at all yesterday! I join you in the wish for an uneventful day! Maybe just a little slide to blue, no diving Mikey!
That's a great AMPS, considering no insulin at all yesterday! I join you in the wish for an uneventful day! Maybe just a little slide to blue, no diving Mikey!
Linda for Weezer
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +1 150 Another early drop?
So much for uneventful! Be safe Miley!
So much for uneventful! Be safe Miley!
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +1 150 Another early drop?
I'm glad you checked early. Well, I don't think this is an issue of overlap or duration! Let's see how the cycle plays out. Mikey may be a kitty that's just going to need a drop of insulin (or to just sniff the Lantus pen!).
I'm glad you checked early. Well, I don't think this is an issue of overlap or duration! Let's see how the cycle plays out. Mikey may be a kitty that's just going to need a drop of insulin (or to just sniff the Lantus pen!).
Amy&TrixieCat
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +1 150 Another early drop?
Wow...Mikey sure knows how to use the juice! Great testing...you guys are living proof of how vital it is, and with all this information you're gathering, you will eventuually find a dose that will help Mikey, keep him safe, and allow you to sleep.
Have a great day! And Mikey - go easy with the diving routine!
Amy
Wow...Mikey sure knows how to use the juice! Great testing...you guys are living proof of how vital it is, and with all this information you're gathering, you will eventuually find a dose that will help Mikey, keep him safe, and allow you to sleep.
Have a great day! And Mikey - go easy with the diving routine!
Amy
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +1 150 Another early drop?
Annnd, at +2 we're at 60. Here we go again. Gave a small HC snack. This is after a full day with NO insulin I didn't think this was supposed to happen on Lantus. Shouldn't he be building the shed back up?
For real, i don't know how much longer I can handle this. All I do is sit here and cry. I'm afraid to leave my house. And nobody but you all understands.
We're seeing the vet this afternoon...anything specific I could ask/tell her would be greatly appreciated.
Annnd, at +2 we're at 60. Here we go again. Gave a small HC snack. This is after a full day with NO insulin I didn't think this was supposed to happen on Lantus. Shouldn't he be building the shed back up?
For real, i don't know how much longer I can handle this. All I do is sit here and cry. I'm afraid to leave my house. And nobody but you all understands.
We're seeing the vet this afternoon...anything specific I could ask/tell her would be greatly appreciated.
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 Here we go again...
Amy: There is no crystal ball, unfortunately. Don't we all wish there were!
As others have said, I think this is a great sign....not one to be upset about. Mikey may be deciding that he doesn't need insulin or if he does, it's going to be a tiny amount. YAY!!!
The only thing I can suggest to you that may help the early drops is the way you are feeding him. I'm not sure if anyone has addressed that but it usually helps to spread feeding out in the early part of the cycle. So if you are feeding him
all day, maybe try taking his "a.m." portion and dividing it between a larger meal at PS and then several small meals at +1, +2, +3 and see if that helps the drops. It might or it might not. The other thing you could do is feed him LC before
+2 but perhaps a higher LC. So if you are feeding him something that is 2%, perhaps bump it up to 5%.
Gracie was a big diver on lantus and both things helped immensely. And guess what....neither her lantus or levemir curves looked or look like what they were/are "supposed" to ;-) ;-)
He's doing great...you're doing great. Please don't cry....you'll get his fur all wet ;-) Sending you BIG HUGS!
Amy: There is no crystal ball, unfortunately. Don't we all wish there were!
As others have said, I think this is a great sign....not one to be upset about. Mikey may be deciding that he doesn't need insulin or if he does, it's going to be a tiny amount. YAY!!!The only thing I can suggest to you that may help the early drops is the way you are feeding him. I'm not sure if anyone has addressed that but it usually helps to spread feeding out in the early part of the cycle. So if you are feeding him
all day, maybe try taking his "a.m." portion and dividing it between a larger meal at PS and then several small meals at +1, +2, +3 and see if that helps the drops. It might or it might not. The other thing you could do is feed him LC before
+2 but perhaps a higher LC. So if you are feeding him something that is 2%, perhaps bump it up to 5%.
Gracie was a big diver on lantus and both things helped immensely. And guess what....neither her lantus or levemir curves looked or look like what they were/are "supposed" to
;-) ;-) He's doing great...you're doing great. Please don't cry....you'll get his fur all wet ;-) Sending you BIG HUGS!
Linda for Weezer
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 Here we go again...
I don't have any advice. I know how stressful this is. It's a ggod thing you did the checks that caught his sky diving trick this morning. As hard as it's been on you, you are keeping him safe. Congrats on that! Take a deep breath, pat yourself on the back, and know we are here for you.
I don't have any advice. I know how stressful this is. It's a ggod thing you did the checks that caught his sky diving trick this morning. As hard as it's been on you, you are keeping him safe. Congrats on that! Take a deep breath, pat yourself on the back, and know we are here for you.
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 Here we go again...
I'm not sure what to suggest you discuss with your vet other than Mikey seems very sensitive to insulin. I would not encourage you to consider a short(er) acting insulin like Humulin N, which I would bet your vet will bring up. While the duration is shorter, N seriously drops BG levels -- more quickly and more harshly than Lantus.
I'm thinking that a 0.1u dose may be the way to go for the next shot. Let me see if I can round up a few people to think on this, as well.
We all really do understand that not everyone empathizes. You're doing a great job even though this is stressful. Hang in there.
I'm not sure what to suggest you discuss with your vet other than Mikey seems very sensitive to insulin. I would not encourage you to consider a short(er) acting insulin like Humulin N, which I would bet your vet will bring up. While the duration is shorter, N seriously drops BG levels -- more quickly and more harshly than Lantus.
I'm thinking that a 0.1u dose may be the way to go for the next shot. Let me see if I can round up a few people to think on this, as well.
We all really do understand that not everyone empathizes. You're doing a great job even though this is stressful. Hang in there.
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 Here we go again...
at +2.5, 46. I gave more HC food with a couple drops of Karo
I am serious, I CANNOT TAKE THIS ANYMORE. Everyone says, to hang in there, we're doing great. We're NOT doing great. I can't go through the emotional or financial toll of this any longer. I was barely holding on in both aspects before this. My family doesn't care about me. My friends don't care about me. I am seriously worried that I'm going to be homeless in a couple of months. I'm neglecting my other animals. I'm neglecting myself; if I take a shower it's a good day. If I can't get this under control SOON, I don't know if there are any more options.
at +2.5, 46. I gave more HC food with a couple drops of Karo
I am serious, I CANNOT TAKE THIS ANYMORE. Everyone says, to hang in there, we're doing great. We're NOT doing great. I can't go through the emotional or financial toll of this any longer. I was barely holding on in both aspects before this. My family doesn't care about me. My friends don't care about me. I am seriously worried that I'm going to be homeless in a couple of months. I'm neglecting my other animals. I'm neglecting myself; if I take a shower it's a good day. If I can't get this under control SOON, I don't know if there are any more options.
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
Give Mikey a good teaspoon of HC to bring the numbers up.
We're doing our best along with you. Keeping Mikey in the 240s isn't a good option, either. He clearly needs some insulin. If we can all work together to find an amount that will help to support his pancreas so it can finish healing, hopefully Mikey will be heading toward remission. You've been at this for less than a month. Take a look at some of our SSs -- I've been at this for 2.5 years. Others have been doing this sugar dance for even longer. The beginning process of this is the most stressful. We really are trying to figure this out and help you.
Give Mikey a good teaspoon of HC to bring the numbers up.
We're doing our best along with you. Keeping Mikey in the 240s isn't a good option, either. He clearly needs some insulin. If we can all work together to find an amount that will help to support his pancreas so it can finish healing, hopefully Mikey will be heading toward remission. You've been at this for less than a month. Take a look at some of our SSs -- I've been at this for 2.5 years. Others have been doing this sugar dance for even longer. The beginning process of this is the most stressful. We really are trying to figure this out and help you.
SaraM2261
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
This is just a great BIG {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
You are doing your VERY BEST for him no matter how this turns out. No matter what happens you are giving him the best possible chance for everything. Your friends and family wouldn't have given him this kind of chance, and you need to give yourself some credit for going the extra mile (or 100) for your sweet kitty. You are an amazing cat mom. The financial and emotional pressure is very high, but you are doing it. And so far so good - he's still here after all!!!! Give yourself credit for that too!
I don't know how long you've been doing this (I have not been here a week yet) but everyone keeps telling me that I will get used to it all. If I look back to the beginning when he was first diagnosed I can already see a big difference in how much I can do for him. Even though I still feel totally lost if I look back to that moment when I knew nothing I know that I am doing great. Maybe that will help you too.
None of us know what is going to happen with our babies from day to day, you can't not give yourself credit unless it's "perfect," you need to give yourself credit for all the stuff in between too. If you don't give a fur shot that's a success, if you get him through a low that's a success, every day that goes by that he is alive is a huge success that you get to spend loving him.
I hope that helps. Keep talking about it. Keep venting it out to get it out of you so you can get help. We're here.
Lots of love coming your way!
-Sara M
This is just a great BIG {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
You are doing your VERY BEST for him no matter how this turns out. No matter what happens you are giving him the best possible chance for everything. Your friends and family wouldn't have given him this kind of chance, and you need to give yourself some credit for going the extra mile (or 100) for your sweet kitty. You are an amazing cat mom. The financial and emotional pressure is very high, but you are doing it. And so far so good - he's still here after all!!!! Give yourself credit for that too!
I don't know how long you've been doing this (I have not been here a week yet) but everyone keeps telling me that I will get used to it all. If I look back to the beginning when he was first diagnosed I can already see a big difference in how much I can do for him. Even though I still feel totally lost if I look back to that moment when I knew nothing I know that I am doing great. Maybe that will help you too.
None of us know what is going to happen with our babies from day to day, you can't not give yourself credit unless it's "perfect," you need to give yourself credit for all the stuff in between too. If you don't give a fur shot that's a success, if you get him through a low that's a success, every day that goes by that he is alive is a huge success that you get to spend loving him.
I hope that helps. Keep talking about it. Keep venting it out to get it out of you so you can get help. We're here.
Lots of love coming your way!
-Sara M
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
I have to echo Sienne's thoughts. She is the only caretaker for her kitties, she works full-time at a very demanding job, and Gabby is a diver/bouncer, Sienne spends many nights up, is constantly helping others here, and still has found the balance in her life.
We've been at this 15 months... we used to play golf twice a week and I took lessons twice a week, travelled all the time, out with friends ALOT, worked full time. In the last year, most of that has changed including me working
full-time. We have two old cats that started having renal issues....one passed away from lymphoma in Sept (love you Teddi Bear), and the other is stable. I can't remember the last time I got more than six hours of sleep at a
time and that is a luxury. I'm constantly exhausted and my DH is an airline pilot so 3-4 days/nights a week...I'm on my own, too. And Gracie, like Gabby, does her own sugardance.
You have this amazing HOPE that he will go into remission and soon. Neither Gabby nor Gracie nor Mannie nor Tess nor many others here did what Mikey is doing so early on. Most of us figure we will be doing this for
quite a bit longer....my Gracie is FIVE years old....but I will do everything in my power to keep her healthy and well no matter what. She deserves that...she trusts us to take care of her.
Read through other condos and you will see many people hanging tough....look at Desi with Tawny who has had DKA three times in little more than a month. Desi is on her own, runs a convenience store, has other animals including
another FD in remission, and how she does it...I will never know. But she is strong. Check out KT's condo. Lyresa's husband has a horrible, debilitating condition and Lyresa has to take care of him PLUS KT and all their other animals
and she is amazingly upbeat and caring....and they don't have ANY spare $$$.
Time for big girl pants....sorry to be so tough but if the support isn't working....maybe tough love will. Most of us would give anything to see our kitties where Mikey is and as fast as he is there. So buck up...be tough...
he IS doing great. You have HOPE!!!!!!
Still sending big hugs, though.
I have to echo Sienne's thoughts. She is the only caretaker for her kitties, she works full-time at a very demanding job, and Gabby is a diver/bouncer, Sienne spends many nights up, is constantly helping others here, and still has found the balance in her life.
We've been at this 15 months... we used to play golf twice a week and I took lessons twice a week, travelled all the time, out with friends ALOT, worked full time. In the last year, most of that has changed including me working
full-time. We have two old cats that started having renal issues....one passed away from lymphoma in Sept (love you Teddi Bear), and the other is stable. I can't remember the last time I got more than six hours of sleep at a
time and that is a luxury. I'm constantly exhausted and my DH is an airline pilot so 3-4 days/nights a week...I'm on my own, too. And Gracie, like Gabby, does her own sugardance.
You have this amazing HOPE that he will go into remission and soon. Neither Gabby nor Gracie nor Mannie nor Tess nor many others here did what Mikey is doing so early on. Most of us figure we will be doing this for
quite a bit longer....my Gracie is FIVE years old....but I will do everything in my power to keep her healthy and well no matter what. She deserves that...she trusts us to take care of her.
Read through other condos and you will see many people hanging tough....look at Desi with Tawny who has had DKA three times in little more than a month. Desi is on her own, runs a convenience store, has other animals including
another FD in remission, and how she does it...I will never know. But she is strong. Check out KT's condo. Lyresa's husband has a horrible, debilitating condition and Lyresa has to take care of him PLUS KT and all their other animals
and she is amazingly upbeat and caring....and they don't have ANY spare $$$.
Time for big girl pants....sorry to be so tough but if the support isn't working....maybe tough love will. Most of us would give anything to see our kitties where Mikey is and as fast as he is there. So buck up...be tough...
he IS doing great. You have HOPE!!!!!!
Still sending big hugs, though.
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
Hi Amy,
Take a deep breath. It will be OK. Really, it will! Mikey is showing you how much he is trying to get his body under control. In the "sugar dance" the cat leads and we beans follow that lead. Please don't be tempted to "sit out" this dance! You have a lot of very experienced people here who are putting their heads together to devise an appropriate dosing plan for Mikey. You are very lucky that Mikey's body is responding so well to Lantus. Many beans here would love to have "problems" like yours.
You will get through this and we will help.
Hang in there!
Ella & Rusty
Hi Amy,
Take a deep breath. It will be OK. Really, it will! Mikey is showing you how much he is trying to get his body under control. In the "sugar dance" the cat leads and we beans follow that lead. Please don't be tempted to "sit out" this dance! You have a lot of very experienced people here who are putting their heads together to devise an appropriate dosing plan for Mikey. You are very lucky that Mikey's body is responding so well to Lantus. Many beans here would love to have "problems" like yours.
You will get through this and we will help.
Hang in there!
Ella & Rusty
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
Holding at 92.
I understand where everyone is coming from. I want to have hope. Honestly, if I had a demanding job, at least I'd be able to pay for this and not wondering how I'm going to care for a diabetic cat while living in my car because I can't afford my rent. But with Mikey like he is, I can't risk leaving the house to fill out an application or go to an interview, either. So here we are. My friends are mad at me for cancelling all our plans. I dont' WANT to cancel, I;d love to get out of my house and actually SMILE, just for one day. I will celebrate Christmas alone with my cats and my dog, and if I get lucky, a takeout dinner because my family doesn't care.
I get that everyone's got troubles. But that doesn't change my reality.
Holding at 92.
I understand where everyone is coming from. I want to have hope. Honestly, if I had a demanding job, at least I'd be able to pay for this and not wondering how I'm going to care for a diabetic cat while living in my car because I can't afford my rent. But with Mikey like he is, I can't risk leaving the house to fill out an application or go to an interview, either. So here we are. My friends are mad at me for cancelling all our plans. I dont' WANT to cancel, I;d love to get out of my house and actually SMILE, just for one day. I will celebrate Christmas alone with my cats and my dog, and if I get lucky, a takeout dinner because my family doesn't care.
I get that everyone's got troubles. But that doesn't change my reality.
PeterDevonMocha
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
Hi guys .. well I must say mikey sure keeps you on your toes! We did the sugar dance with mocha for 22 months .. if you look at her SS, you can see that even on the tiniest dose of insulin, mocha was dropping into the 30's! nailbite_smile But we made it through and you will too .. I know it seems like there will never be a "normal" day for you again, but trust me, things will become routine again .. it just takes time ..
Hi guys .. well I must say mikey sure keeps you on your toes! We did the sugar dance with mocha for 22 months .. if you look at her SS, you can see that even on the tiniest dose of insulin, mocha was dropping into the 30's! nailbite_smile But we made it through and you will too .. I know it seems like there will never be a "normal" day for you again, but trust me, things will become routine again .. it just takes time ..
Squeaky and KT (GA)
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
Amy,
You sure are holding down our latest FIRST PLACE in "Dancing with Sugar Cats" with solid 10's my friend! I know you're exhausted making you depressed - wish I could be there to give you a real hug and give you a little break. There's lots of us that wish that same thing too.
Mikey reminds me of what John & Apollo just went thru in September. They arrived here Sept 21st, Apollo did this same thing Mikey's doing - his LAST insulin shot was Oct 12th! Sept 21 - Oct 12...John thought there was no end, he couldn't do it anymore, exhausted, living on coffee and sugar too. We keep saying there's an end - REALLY there IS....and that's reality WE have seen. I know you couldn't care less about that right now but you will 'cos you're one amazing Bean!!
BIG hug again,
Amy,
You sure are holding down our latest FIRST PLACE in "Dancing with Sugar Cats" with solid 10's my friend! I know you're exhausted making you depressed - wish I could be there to give you a real hug and give you a little break. There's lots of us that wish that same thing too.
Mikey reminds me of what John & Apollo just went thru in September. They arrived here Sept 21st, Apollo did this same thing Mikey's doing - his LAST insulin shot was Oct 12th! Sept 21 - Oct 12...John thought there was no end, he couldn't do it anymore, exhausted, living on coffee and sugar too. We keep saying there's an end - REALLY there IS....and that's reality WE have seen. I know you couldn't care less about that right now but you will 'cos you're one amazing Bean!!
BIG hug again,
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
Hang in there, at least Mikey is doing this in the daytime. Definitely another reduction here and Mikey is one of a kind. :roll: To get the next dose, draw this one again and just squeeze on more drop out.
Look, this dramatic action has all happened in less than a week. You are really in a very good position here. As, Marje said there are a lot of folks here dealing w/ a lot of problems. Mikey has such a great chance of going OTJ. And you do have friends! We are here!
I keep wondering about this after 2 cycles w/ no insulin and the first big drop was after 3 cycles w/ no shot. Is there something else going on that can be raising his BGs? Stress, pain or infection can all show up w/ raised BG. Could it be a reflection of something else?
Hang in there, at least Mikey is doing this in the daytime. Definitely another reduction here and Mikey is one of a kind. :roll: To get the next dose, draw this one again and just squeeze on more drop out.
Look, this dramatic action has all happened in less than a week. You are really in a very good position here. As, Marje said there are a lot of folks here dealing w/ a lot of problems. Mikey has such a great chance of going OTJ. And you do have friends! We are here!
I keep wondering about this after 2 cycles w/ no insulin and the first big drop was after 3 cycles w/ no shot. Is there something else going on that can be raising his BGs? Stress, pain or infection can all show up w/ raised BG. Could it be a reflection of something else?
Kathy and Kitty
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
Amy, your stressing out is so understandable. I hope you can think of this as something that is not going to last long. I think once you get Mikey stable, you'll find he does very well, and you can get out from under this terrible stress. He just hasn't had a chance to stabilize. He's bounced around, his doses have changed.
Hang on by your fingernails. It gets better.
Amy, your stressing out is so understandable. I hope you can think of this as something that is not going to last long. I think once you get Mikey stable, you'll find he does very well, and you can get out from under this terrible stress. He just hasn't had a chance to stabilize. He's bounced around, his doses have changed.
Hang on by your fingernails. It gets better.
mybuddybinks
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
I agree here! I think Mikey may be in the ranks of kitties who have the shortest insulin ride in the history of the board!
and while every cat is different...
once binks decided he was done...it was only a couple of days to go through the last 2 doses and BINGO!
I know you're exhausted, and i know you have so much else going on...I wish we could come help you through what may be the last few days
of this wild ride...
celi
Squeaky and KT said:
I agree here! I think Mikey may be in the ranks of kitties who have the shortest insulin ride in the history of the board!
and while every cat is different...
once binks decided he was done...it was only a couple of days to go through the last 2 doses and BINGO!
I know you're exhausted, and i know you have so much else going on...I wish we could come help you through what may be the last few days
of this wild ride...
celi
Squeaky and KT (GA)
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
Looks like a bounce starting - Mr. Liver just panicked and dumped glucose 'cos he's used to higher numbers.
HUGS,
and another one,
Looks like a bounce starting - Mr. Liver just panicked and dumped glucose 'cos he's used to higher numbers.
HUGS,
and another one,
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
I don't know what to think at this point. I talked to my vet, who is going to talk to an internal medicine specialist who has lots of experience. She doesn't have much experience with FD, but has been amazing. She has spent her days off researching and consulting for Mikey. It seems as though, even for vets, the research is often conflicting! One vet in the practice read to shoot a dose, no matter what, for a week, to see if he stabilizes, which on one level does make sense with the way Lantus works. I am wondering if we should try that with like a drop at each shot and see if it stabilizes over a few days, but I still worry about the constant low-feed-bounce that we're going through.
I guess that at this point, a huge part of our problem is that because of the lows, we don't have a true curve with a nadir. We know the insulin is kicking in immediately and having a huge effect, but later in the cycle is being effected by the fact that I have to give him carbs to counteract the hypo. The scariest part for me is that he doesn't show any symptoms when he does go low, not even in the 30's or 40's. It has been suggested to shoot and watch for symptoms without constant testing, in order to give him a chance to get through a couple of cycles, but that scares me a lot. He's already very mildly neuro (unrelated to FD), so he'd have to be worse than that to show, and by then, it's pretty scary, especially with the nearest E-vet a half hour away with no traffic. I do know a couple of people who use insulin and never hometest and their cats seem fine no matter what their numbers might be, but that's really scary.
My vet is waiting on her internist consult and is going to call me back in a couple of hours. I'm going to ask about doing a drop at each shot and going from there, though so far a .75 reduction has made zero difference.
I don't know what to think at this point. I talked to my vet, who is going to talk to an internal medicine specialist who has lots of experience. She doesn't have much experience with FD, but has been amazing. She has spent her days off researching and consulting for Mikey. It seems as though, even for vets, the research is often conflicting! One vet in the practice read to shoot a dose, no matter what, for a week, to see if he stabilizes, which on one level does make sense with the way Lantus works. I am wondering if we should try that with like a drop at each shot and see if it stabilizes over a few days, but I still worry about the constant low-feed-bounce that we're going through.
I guess that at this point, a huge part of our problem is that because of the lows, we don't have a true curve with a nadir. We know the insulin is kicking in immediately and having a huge effect, but later in the cycle is being effected by the fact that I have to give him carbs to counteract the hypo. The scariest part for me is that he doesn't show any symptoms when he does go low, not even in the 30's or 40's. It has been suggested to shoot and watch for symptoms without constant testing, in order to give him a chance to get through a couple of cycles, but that scares me a lot. He's already very mildly neuro (unrelated to FD), so he'd have to be worse than that to show, and by then, it's pretty scary, especially with the nearest E-vet a half hour away with no traffic. I do know a couple of people who use insulin and never hometest and their cats seem fine no matter what their numbers might be, but that's really scary.
My vet is waiting on her internist consult and is going to call me back in a couple of hours. I'm going to ask about doing a drop at each shot and going from there, though so far a .75 reduction has made zero difference.
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 1
Reducing down to 0.1u makes sense. Maybe, your suggestion regarding food manipulation should be given some consideration, too.
What are you feeding Mikey? It may be if you're feeding below 5% carb, you can increase Mikey's carbs. The carbs can help to balance out the insulin. Is there any chance you can make a food run this afternoon? If not, we can approximate carbs by combing LC and HC food.
Reducing down to 0.1u makes sense. Maybe, your suggestion regarding food manipulation should be given some consideration, too.
What are you feeding Mikey? It may be if you're feeding below 5% carb, you can increase Mikey's carbs. The carbs can help to balance out the insulin. Is there any chance you can make a food run this afternoon? If not, we can approximate carbs by combing LC and HC food.
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 1
He's getting Fancy Feast classics, different flavors for his meals at shot time. Most are 4% or lower. He also gets Merrick's and 9-lives for a snack (I'd love to feed just the Merrick's but it's way out of my budget). I wonder if I should put a teaspoon or two of the gravy variety in with that, to get his carbs up before the insulin kicks in?
He's getting Fancy Feast classics, different flavors for his meals at shot time. Most are 4% or lower. He also gets Merrick's and 9-lives for a snack (I'd love to feed just the Merrick's but it's way out of my budget). I wonder if I should put a teaspoon or two of the gravy variety in with that, to get his carbs up before the insulin kicks in?
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 1
I can't access google spreadsheets from work, so I'm winging it a little here. I'll take a better look when I get home. What I'm thinking, though, is that the data you have gotten shows that Mikey does drop early and fast, but he also rises easily from food. I think you can use this knowledge to make things easier on yourself.
First, I would reduce the dose to 0.1u twice a day. Then, try splitting preshot meal into 2-3 meals. Feed part of it when you shoot, then feed the rest at +1. That will hopefully help slow down the fast drop. Then get your usual +2 test. If he's low, feed and get +2.5, just like you have been doing. It looks like most of the time his bounce has started by +3, and for sure he is going up around +4. Once he starts his bounce, you should be good to go about your day (or go to bed). If you do have to leave at +4, you can always feed some extra at +3 and he should keep rising. You can try it on a cycle when you will be home so you can test and see for sure what happens.
Many of us also find that once the cat is on a tiny dose of insulin, often a little bit of low carb food is enough to bump them out of low numbers instead of needing high carb every time. Again, you can try it when you are able to test to see what happens (because if the number doesn't start going up quickly, you can always feed high carb at the next test and you KNOW that will turn him around). I know with Lucy, when she got to a point where I knew low carb food was enough to keep her surfing, I felt a LOT better about leaving her. I knew she could just go to her food dish and eat whatever was already there, and that it would keep her safe.
I know it is frustrating that Mikey is responding so well but still needs a tiny dose. Most cats need 1 unit or more, but sometimes we have cats come through here that need just a drop or two of insulin. Cini Mini is one that comes to mind who is here right now - you can study Cini's spreadsheet to see what has worked for them. The good news is that a lot of those micro dose cats do go OTJ. The beginning can be tough, for sure. You were thrown right into the fire without having a chance to get used to things first.
I can't access google spreadsheets from work, so I'm winging it a little here. I'll take a better look when I get home. What I'm thinking, though, is that the data you have gotten shows that Mikey does drop early and fast, but he also rises easily from food. I think you can use this knowledge to make things easier on yourself.
First, I would reduce the dose to 0.1u twice a day. Then, try splitting preshot meal into 2-3 meals. Feed part of it when you shoot, then feed the rest at +1. That will hopefully help slow down the fast drop. Then get your usual +2 test. If he's low, feed and get +2.5, just like you have been doing. It looks like most of the time his bounce has started by +3, and for sure he is going up around +4. Once he starts his bounce, you should be good to go about your day (or go to bed). If you do have to leave at +4, you can always feed some extra at +3 and he should keep rising. You can try it on a cycle when you will be home so you can test and see for sure what happens.
Many of us also find that once the cat is on a tiny dose of insulin, often a little bit of low carb food is enough to bump them out of low numbers instead of needing high carb every time. Again, you can try it when you are able to test to see what happens (because if the number doesn't start going up quickly, you can always feed high carb at the next test and you KNOW that will turn him around). I know with Lucy, when she got to a point where I knew low carb food was enough to keep her surfing, I felt a LOT better about leaving her. I knew she could just go to her food dish and eat whatever was already there, and that it would keep her safe.
I know it is frustrating that Mikey is responding so well but still needs a tiny dose. Most cats need 1 unit or more, but sometimes we have cats come through here that need just a drop or two of insulin. Cini Mini is one that comes to mind who is here right now - you can study Cini's spreadsheet to see what has worked for them. The good news is that a lot of those micro dose cats do go OTJ. The beginning can be tough, for sure. You were thrown right into the fire without having a chance to get used to things first.
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 1
I spoke with the vet again. She spoke with the internist who says he's never seen this type of reaction to such a low dose of Lantus before, with such a fast early drop. He wants to hold insulin until tomorrow when we can test BG on the office equipment and double check how I draw (which I'm confident is accurate; if anything, I err on the skinny side). So we're on hold until the specialist can take a closer look tomorrow. If anyone else has had cats that take an early dive on Lantus, what did you do about it? Did it evenyutally resolve?
Mikey is very, very reactive to vaccines-I wonder if there is some connection with that here. He had a stroke in reaction to a round of routine vaccines when he was about 2. He's not vaccinated for anything except rabies now. Anyone else have this type of experience?
The only other thing he's getting is Clavamox BID for a UTI. He'll be done with that this weekend and is showing no signs of a UTI.
*sigh* One of these days.
I spoke with the vet again. She spoke with the internist who says he's never seen this type of reaction to such a low dose of Lantus before, with such a fast early drop. He wants to hold insulin until tomorrow when we can test BG on the office equipment and double check how I draw (which I'm confident is accurate; if anything, I err on the skinny side). So we're on hold until the specialist can take a closer look tomorrow. If anyone else has had cats that take an early dive on Lantus, what did you do about it? Did it evenyutally resolve?
Mikey is very, very reactive to vaccines-I wonder if there is some connection with that here. He had a stroke in reaction to a round of routine vaccines when he was about 2. He's not vaccinated for anything except rabies now. Anyone else have this type of experience?
The only other thing he's getting is Clavamox BID for a UTI. He'll be done with that this weekend and is showing no signs of a UTI.
*sigh* One of these days.
mybuddybinks
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 1
you've received a LOT of good input...
I just want to say that splitting binks' food into 4 mini-meals each cycle
made a HUGE difference in smoothing out his "curve".
(we fed at shot time, +1, +2, & +3)
you've received a LOT of good input...
I just want to say that splitting binks' food into 4 mini-meals each cycle
made a HUGE difference in smoothing out his "curve".
(we fed at shot time, +1, +2, & +3)
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 2-On Hold A
Gabby has fast, early drops. It's the reason I test as much as I do early in the cycle. You're more than welcome to look at her SS. You'll see more of these drops on the first page (there are tabs at the bottom). Mannie and Gracie are also diving kitties. I just tend to regard it as Gabby being Gabby.
In humans, there are people who are "fast reactors" to medications or who will describe themselves as being very "sensitive" to meds. Sometimes, it's with a particular class of medications. There are also people who don't really respond well to medications. My sister for example, can reliably have a side effect to a drug that 1 in 100,000 people will have and she has all sorts of chemical sensitivities. It may be that Mikey's sensitivity to vaccines is an indication of his sensitivity to certain drugs.
Also, it may be that the UTI is what threw Mikey into diabetes. For some cats, an infection or inflammation stresses their system and they respond with higher BG levels. (Stress causes the body to release corticosteroids which raise BG levels.) As the infection is clearing, Mikey's numbers are coming down all on their own.
Gabby has fast, early drops. It's the reason I test as much as I do early in the cycle. You're more than welcome to look at her SS. You'll see more of these drops on the first page (there are tabs at the bottom). Mannie and Gracie are also diving kitties. I just tend to regard it as Gabby being Gabby.
In humans, there are people who are "fast reactors" to medications or who will describe themselves as being very "sensitive" to meds. Sometimes, it's with a particular class of medications. There are also people who don't really respond well to medications. My sister for example, can reliably have a side effect to a drug that 1 in 100,000 people will have and she has all sorts of chemical sensitivities. It may be that Mikey's sensitivity to vaccines is an indication of his sensitivity to certain drugs.
Also, it may be that the UTI is what threw Mikey into diabetes. For some cats, an infection or inflammation stresses their system and they respond with higher BG levels. (Stress causes the body to release corticosteroids which raise BG levels.) As the infection is clearing, Mikey's numbers are coming down all on their own.
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 2-On Hold A
You guys have given me some great things to talk to the vet about. Here's hoping a new set of eyes can help this get sorted.
Mikey continues to act on the good side of normal. He's drinking so much less, so I know treatment IS helping. Really, the only way you'd know he was sick is to see how skinny he is.
You guys have given me some great things to talk to the vet about. Here's hoping a new set of eyes can help this get sorted.
Mikey continues to act on the good side of normal. He's drinking so much less, so I know treatment IS helping. Really, the only way you'd know he was sick is to see how skinny he is.
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 2-On Hold A
Here are a few I can think of:
Cini Mini (1st spreadsheet w/AlphaTrak meter, 2nd spreadsheet w/ReliOn meter)
Johnny
Tuffy
Doodle
Here are a few I can think of:
Cini Mini (1st spreadsheet w/AlphaTrak meter, 2nd spreadsheet w/ReliOn meter)
Johnny
Tuffy
Doodle
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 2-On Hold A
Thank you for the info. Provided that we don't find something else going on, I think what I'm going to discuss with my vet as my first choice is to reduce insulin to .1U, twice a day, for several days, and then see if the early drops can be minimized by feeding several small meals in the first three hours. Does this sound reasonable? I could try a different insulin (Levemir, maybe?), but the expense makes that a last ditch effort.
Thank you for the info. Provided that we don't find something else going on, I think what I'm going to discuss with my vet as my first choice is to reduce insulin to .1U, twice a day, for several days, and then see if the early drops can be minimized by feeding several small meals in the first three hours. Does this sound reasonable? I could try a different insulin (Levemir, maybe?), but the expense makes that a last ditch effort.
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 2-On Hold A
I think your plan sounds good. I don't know if the difference in the pharmacology of Lev would matter but it's an interesting question. If your vet or the internal medicine vet has access to a veterinary pharmacologist, they may be able to tell you. The biggest difference you'd see with Lev is that the nadir is later.
I think your plan sounds good. I don't know if the difference in the pharmacology of Lev would matter but it's an interesting question. If your vet or the internal medicine vet has access to a veterinary pharmacologist, they may be able to tell you. The biggest difference you'd see with Lev is that the nadir is later.
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 2-On Hold A
You would have to look at Gracie's Lantus SS to see her early dives.
The good thing about levemir (which Gracie is on now and why Ann put Tess on it) is because it doesn't onset typically until +4 so it has reduced the dives in both Gracie and Tess.
You would have to look at Gracie's Lantus SS to see her early dives.
The good thing about levemir (which Gracie is on now and why Ann put Tess on it) is because it doesn't onset typically until +4 so it has reduced the dives in both Gracie and Tess.
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 2-On Hold A
Both Tess and Marje's Gracie used to have really early steep drops. Levemir not only has a late nadir but a later onset as well. Marje and I have both seen a big improvement since we switched.
There is a good chance that Mikey's dosing is complicated by the abs if he is so sensitive to meds. If Mikey doesn't stop the drops and still needs to stay on insulin after he is finished w/ the abs, Lev might work. You can call around to see if there is a pharmacy that will sell single pens. Often hospital pharmacies will have split up boxes. There have been coupons offered by the mfg for new prescriptions too. I'll see if there is anything still available.
Both Tess and Marje's Gracie used to have really early steep drops. Levemir not only has a late nadir but a later onset as well. Marje and I have both seen a big improvement since we switched.
There is a good chance that Mikey's dosing is complicated by the abs if he is so sensitive to meds. If Mikey doesn't stop the drops and still needs to stay on insulin after he is finished w/ the abs, Lev might work. You can call around to see if there is a pharmacy that will sell single pens. Often hospital pharmacies will have split up boxes. There have been coupons offered by the mfg for new prescriptions too. I'll see if there is anything still available.
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 2-On Hold A
I found this on the Levemir site. Your vet may be able to get free sample pens. Levemir samples
There are alsoo a lot of rx coupon sites, this one looks interesting. http://www.medicationcoupons.com/levemir_flexpen_solution_coupon
I found this on the Levemir site. Your vet may be able to get free sample pens. Levemir samples
There are alsoo a lot of rx coupon sites, this one looks interesting. http://www.medicationcoupons.com/levemir_flexpen_solution_coupon
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 2-On Hold A
hi amy,
i want to encourage you to take advantage of the time between about +4 and the evening shot to have some time for yourself. when mikey is dropping early and you've brought him up, you should be safe for a little while.
i like your plan of 0.1u dose with a little bit of food with the shot and in several feedings in the first 3 hours. hopefully that will even things out.
hugs! one of the great truths in life is that all things pass. you're not going to be doing this for the rest of your life. these circumstances you are in are just for right now, as sucky as they are, they are temporary. i tell my young adult kids that they can endure nearly anything for a while. we have more inner strength than we know, and often it takes a crisis to bring that strength out.
and another hug!
hi amy,
i want to encourage you to take advantage of the time between about +4 and the evening shot to have some time for yourself. when mikey is dropping early and you've brought him up, you should be safe for a little while.
i like your plan of 0.1u dose with a little bit of food with the shot and in several feedings in the first 3 hours. hopefully that will even things out.
hugs! one of the great truths in life is that all things pass. you're not going to be doing this for the rest of your life. these circumstances you are in are just for right now, as sucky as they are, they are temporary. i tell my young adult kids that they can endure nearly anything for a while. we have more inner strength than we know, and often it takes a crisis to bring that strength out.
and another hug!
DD & Tinkerbell
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Here we go again...
You know what? You CAN do this. Everyone is right, Mikey is on the fast track to the OTJ train, you don't want to stop now!
You're not going to be alone. You will celebrate Christmas with your cats and your dog. That's not alone. That's how I will celebrate Christmas, and hopefully Tawny will be healthy and happy and home again for good by then. That's all I want for Christmas. For her to be home healthy, and to spend Christmas with my loved ones. That would be my cats, my dogs, my horses, and FDMB.
Your cats, your dogs and FDMB will all be there for you on Christmas.
You are not alone.
BIG BIG BIG BIG HUGS... :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: TO YOU & MIKEY.
Desi
You know what? You CAN do this. Everyone is right, Mikey is on the fast track to the OTJ train, you don't want to stop now!
MikeysMom said:
You're not going to be alone. You will celebrate Christmas with your cats and your dog. That's not alone. That's how I will celebrate Christmas, and hopefully Tawny will be healthy and happy and home again for good by then. That's all I want for Christmas. For her to be home healthy, and to spend Christmas with my loved ones. That would be my cats, my dogs, my horses, and FDMB.
Your cats, your dogs and FDMB will all be there for you on Christmas.
You are not alone.
BIG BIG BIG BIG HUGS... :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: TO YOU & MIKEY.
Desi
Kathy and Kitty
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/7 Mikey AMPS 240 +2 60 +2.5 46 Vet Update 2-On Hold A
I will be checking in on Christmas Day, so you & your furbabies can count on Kitty and me too!
No member of LL is alone. Hugs.
I will be checking in on Christmas Day, so you & your furbabies can count on Kitty and me too!
No member of LL is alone. Hugs.
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