12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - PMBG 188, +2/137 !

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Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

I noticed that wherever he ends up at the end of the day for a PMBG is where he starts the next day for the AMBG.
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

Good luck! I know this back and forth must be frustrating. Sooooo close, I hope this one holds.
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

Moonies AM & Pm numbers are usually quite close--
Looks like Cini Mini is maybe needing drop or 2 of insulin...It is best to take your time here & see where this goes..Many cats needed low doses a little longer so that they can stay at the Falls longer, hopefully furever.
Know you want OTJ, but it may not be just yet--Dont get discouraged--Rome wasnt built in a day!
I was taught that when a cat is all green for 7 days, that would be the beginning of an OTJ trial--
Has that changed???
Hugs from us!
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

Hi Roni.

I want what's best for Cini. Getting him OTJ faster than what he needs to be is of no consequence to me. I work from home so shooting him every day and doing periodic BGs is no big deal.

The problem with the "Green for 7 days" approach is that Cini will go green, then I shoot, then he goes hypo.

The last few days before we started the trial were green readings but I would have to feed him upwards of 10% carb food to counteract the 1 drop of insulin I gave because if I didn't by the time he reached +3/+4 he would be below 50.
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

Is there an option to reduce the carb content of his food some more? I had success with Boo going from 5-7% carb to 3-5%. That 30-40% reduction made a ton of difference.
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

Hi guys .. boy I know this would be frustrating, so close yet so far away right? I hope this dose holds out for you guys and the rest of the trial is smooth sailing! Have a great day!
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

Mystery said:
Is there an option to reduce the carb content of his food some more? I had success with Boo going from 5-7% carb to 3-5%. That 30-40% reduction made a ton of difference.
Click to expand...


Why would I want to reduce the carb content of his food at PS time? So that he'll go hypo on purpose?

Please explain.
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

Cini Mini's Mom said:
Why would I want to reduce the carb content of his food at PS time? So that he'll go hypo on purpose?

Please explain.
Click to expand...

Theoretically, less carbs means less sugar means less insulin - right? Or should I go back to my diabetes for dummies book? Lowering overall carb content of food made a huge difference for my cat - from "on the verge of OTJ" to "real deal OTJ." Maybe carb content of food doesn't have that big of an impact when lantus is being used though?
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

Mystery said:
Cini Mini's Mom said:
Why would I want to reduce the carb content of his food at PS time? So that he'll go hypo on purpose?

Please explain.
Click to expand...

Theoretically, less carbs means less sugar means less insulin - right? Or should I go back to my diabetes for dummies book? Lowering overall carb content of food made a huge difference for my cat - from "on the verge of OTJ" to "real deal OTJ." Maybe carb content of food doesn't have that big of an impact when lantus is being used though?
Click to expand...


Normally I feed Cini FF Classics which are ~3% carbs.

The reason why I had to go to higher carb food at shot time was if I didn't he would go hypo at +3/+4 after giving him 1 drop.

Please explain what method you would use at shot time to prevent a hypo episode at +3/+4. Maybe I am missing something?
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

Cini Mini's Mom said:
Normally I feed Cini FF Classics which are ~3% carbs.

The reason why I had to go to higher carb food at shot time was if I didn't he would go hypo at +3/+4 after giving him 1 drop.

Please explain what method you would use at shot time to prevent a hypo episode at +3/+4. Maybe I am missing something?
Click to expand...

I'm not referring to 'shot time' food. Is it not logical that if you can lower overall carb intake from 3%, to say 2% (which would be a 33% decrease in carb intake - not insignficant) that his insulin requirement would diminish at least a little bit? A little bit might be all it takes to get him from the numbers you're seeing to numbers you want to see.

I'm just throwing the suggestion/question out there - nobody has definitive answers, if that's what you're looking for. I just asked a question that come to mind, as I'm trying to learn all I can about everything that has anything to do with diabetes. If asking questions isn't a good thing, I'll shut up and just continue with my reading. :)
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

Hey Mystery, keep asking the questions. That way I ask questions, you ask questions and before you know it, we're having a conversation. :-D

I was focused in on talking carb content at shot time and you were talking overall carb content, and I did not pick up on that.

Good suggestion on looking for overall lower carb foods. I'll go to J&B's list and see what I can find. I know the Innova/EVO diets are lower in carbs (2% or 0%). I'll have to see where they are sold in my area.
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

If the question is only the lowest LC when you are NOT shooting insulin...
that's what I do with Binks.
He only gets 3 flavors, and they're ALL 3%.
(So far he doesnt seem bored with it)

Having higher carb foods in the house while I was gone (and me letting him have some as well when I was here :oops: )
is what I believe led him to return from the Falls.

and yes, please...everyone should ask any questions they have :-D
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

OK, called the area distributor for Innova/EVO and they have the 95% Chicken & Turkey which is 0% carbs. I'm also going to get a few of the Venison and a few of the Beef which are 2% carbs each and we'll see if that helps.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! Even those who PM'd me (you know who you are ;-) )

This is what I love about this forum and FDMB, everyone is so eager to help! :smile:
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

Yeah I think she meant feed lower carbs NOW to help with his trial. He's really a mystery isn't he? I was semi-joking about waving insulin under his nose, but....I'll go ahead and ask. What is she supposed to do if cini's numbers stay up in mid-blue? IIRC, she was giving about the smallest possible dose of insulin and having to carb him to keep him up. Just going to throw this out there, and I realize it makes no sense with the L's, because of the shed, but has anyone in this situation tried anything like shooting every couple days only? Just asking because I can't think of any other way to give less insulin than cini was getting.
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155

Cini Mini's Mom said:
Hey Mystery, keep asking the questions. That way I ask questions, you ask questions and before you know it, we're having a conversation. :-D

I was focused in on talking carb content at shot time and you were talking overall carb content, and I did not pick up on that.

Good suggestion on looking for overall lower carb foods. I'll go to J&B's list and see what I can find. I know the Innova/EVO diets are lower in carbs (2% or 0%). I'll have to see where they are sold in my area.
Click to expand...

Well, I'd have likely not stopped asking questions anyways. :D I've been on a crusade about the whole cat food thing ever since discovering Dr Lisa's website. I'm still beating myself up for poisoning my poor little Beauregard for so many years with the garbage they call dry "food."

At any rate - another thing that I discovered when I was trying to get him from "almost" to "real deal" (keeping in mind, the discoveries were taking place when he was in the "no shoot" zone, but I wasn't comfortable thinking he was officially OTJ 'til several weeks later) is that he has a super sensitivity to corn and potato versus wheat or white or brown rice. Seems weird to me, but it's definitely the case. You might want to keep an eye on that kind of thing too - one never knows what is going to be the Eureka discovery for each kitteh! We tried a quite few different foods (luckily, he's about the most unfinicky kitty in the history of kittydom) and his tests would be significantly higher after corn and potato than they were after other carbs. This might be basic stuff that everyone else already knows, but its stuff I didin't even think about 'til Beauregard was in that 'almost but not quite' OTJ realm so thought I'd mention it.
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155, +3/141

i was wondering the same thing...
and now we're all rooting for a green this cycle!!!

cat-1_e0.gif
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155, +3/141

I don't know if you were on the board yet when the discussion was going around about FF and the carb counts of the classics. FF has changed its formulas for the classics and most of the carb counts are at least 5% (except for the seafood flavors). That's why I stopped feeding FF. Champ is very carb sensitive and I really noticed a difference. I know Merrick Before Grain beef and Before Grain turkey are like 1 or 2% carbs. I like these foods because the calorie count is lower also (Champ's a porker!). I put Champ on a homemake raw diet about a month and a half ago and I feel it has made a significant difference. Champ has actually started playing again and jumping on furniture, just acting more like his pre-FD self. I spend about 2-3 hours one night a month making his food. It's not fun, but I've found that it's even cheaper than FF, even with using TCFeline premix (all I need to do is add the cut up chicken and chicken liver). Champ loves it, his weight is down, his numbers haven't been this good in a long while, and I'm saving money. Before you give up on the OTJ trial, try a food that you know for sure is 1-2% carbs, such as the Merrick's. It's hard to go to a lower dose than one drop!! Good luck!!! I really want this to succeed!!
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155, +3/141

Hoping things go well w/ this trial and that new fuds will help. The Merrick Before Grains Turkey and the Beef are 1%, the rest 2%, no corn or potato, or rice. They come in 3oz or 5.5oz cans.:-D Also all of Blue Wilderness are 2%, but only the small cans. There is an updated list w/ some of the new foods in the "New to the Group Stickey."

Tess gets raw too and the cars are less than 1%.
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155, +3/141, +5

+5 was 175 :cry:

This is just going from bad to worse.

I won't be able to get him some LC food till later tonight.
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - AMBG 155, +3/141, +5

Mr. Pancreas....oh.....Mr. Pancreas.......let's have that talk about doing your job for Mr. Cini Mini......

I hope that Mr. Pancreas hears me and begins to kick in! BUT if not, please don't be discouraged. A few days OTJ is a good start! Here's hoping for a successful trial...!!!
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - PMBG 188

Thanks everyone for your excellent advice as always.

*Sigh* today has just been one of those days. It feels like a Monday for me personally at work and at home.

I was finally able to get over to the pet food store and I picked up some cans of Innova EVO 95% Chicken and Turkey, and also the 95% Duck. Here's the ingredients:

Chicken and Turkey:

Chicken, Chicken Broth, Turkey, Natural Flavors, Carrageenan, Minerals, Guar Gum, Vitamins, Choline Chloride, Herring Oil, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Sodium, Ascorbate, Taurine, Sunflower Oil, Sodium Phosphate, Beta Carotene

Duck:

Duck, Duck Broth, Natural Flavors, Carrageenan, Potassium Chloride, Tricalcium Phospate, Minerals, Guar Gum, Vitamins, Choline Chloride, Herring Oil, Salt, Sodium Ascorbate, Sunflower Oil, Taurine, Sodium Phosphate, Beta Carotene

According to J&B's list the Chicken & Turkey has 0% carbs and the Duck has 2% carbs. So I bought mostly Chicken and a few Duck to break the monotony every once in a while.

When I got home Cini Mini insisted on eating at 7pm so I fed him the 95% Chicken and he liked it very much. It has a good consistency too, very soft and creamy which is good for Cini to swallow easy.

Sooo.. the PMBG I just took at 8pm was 1 hour after eating and it was 188. I guess I should do another one at 9pm (+1) and another at 10pm (+2) ?
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - PMBG 188

I'd check him at +3 for sure....
for some reason when binks tripped a blue during his trial, his pancreas would bring him down about 3 hours after he ate :-D
 
Re: 12/7-Cini Mini- OTJ Trial Day 4? - PMBG 188

OK, then 3 hours after he last ate (7pm) would really be +2 from his PMBG (8pm).

I'll report back in 1 hour (10pm).
 
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