kellykramer
Member Since 2013
Seems as we are going high AM and PM ?
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=109444
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=109444
12/6 Oliver AMPS 505 5+431 PMPS 415 3+ 320
- Thread starter kellykramer
- Start date
- Status
Amy&TrixieCat
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/6 Oliver AMPS 505
Oliver does seem to like his bounces....hopefully someone with more bouncy experience can offer you some guidance here. I know sometimes feeding schedules and things like that can help flatten out a kitty, but I haven't tried it first hand since Trix isn't a super bouncer like Oliver here.
Have a great day, Kelly!!
Oliver does seem to like his bounces....hopefully someone with more bouncy experience can offer you some guidance here. I know sometimes feeding schedules and things like that can help flatten out a kitty, but I haven't tried it first hand since Trix isn't a super bouncer like Oliver here.
Have a great day, Kelly!!
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/6 Oliver AMPS 505
argh. i've spent the past 40 minutes writing a response to you and then Chrome crashed and it's lost. GRRrR. we hate computers. i now want to throw this thing out the window! *breathing*
i'm not going to write the whole thing again, but here's the bottom line. it's understandable you want to please your vet, but the only published protocol for treating a diabetic cat is the one we follow here. perhaps you can print it out and ask your vet what dosing protocol he's following. we've had 4 diabetic cats go off insulin in the past month, if you've been following them. there are 2 more getting there that will likely be doing OTJ trials before long. in all, we've had about 300 cats go off by following this protocol. so it's proven - both in studies and in practice. This is the protocol: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19592286
when oliver hit the 48, he bounced. an explanation of that is on the second post here in New Dose Wonkiness at that point, he needed a dose reduction (shooting through the am bounce was fine) to 1.75u. he was still in a bounce from that when you increased back to 2.0u. that sends numbers wonky, and it's put him at a higher dose than he needs. it is really dangerous to not take dose reductions with a newly diagnosed cat - as their pancreas heals, you need less and less insulin injected because their pancreas is sputtering and helping produce some as well.
you don't need different syringes - there aren't any with .25u markings. there was a discussion about this on your last post on 12/3 http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=109308&p=1155348#p1155348. maybe you didn't see the replies on that one. some people use magnifying glasses to see the lines, if that helps you.
it's really important to wait to evaluate a dose until a bounce has cleared. when you increased back to 2.0u, that was during a bounce. Not all high numbers require more insulin!!!! vets tend to see high numbers and think that means increase, but we have a spreadsheet that we can see that these high numbers are from bouncing, not from a too-low dose of insulin. if Oliver clears the bounce and has too much insulin in him, he might very well come down like a freight train. If i were you, i would absolutely decrease back to 1.75u in order to keep him safe, then wait for 3 days after the blue 150 you saw a day or so ago (his ss closed when chrome crashed, so i don't have it open in front of me) before you change his dose again.
hope you guys are having a great day! we're snowed in here - always a cause for celebration in oregon!
Keep asking questions, kelly - you'll get there and Oliver will do better. he's responding really nicely to the insulin - it just takes persistence and some time.
btw, when you post in Main Health, people assume you're new and won't know what advice you are getting here. you probably just want to post here.
argh. i've spent the past 40 minutes writing a response to you and then Chrome crashed and it's lost. GRRrR. we hate computers. i now want to throw this thing out the window! *breathing*
i'm not going to write the whole thing again, but here's the bottom line. it's understandable you want to please your vet, but the only published protocol for treating a diabetic cat is the one we follow here. perhaps you can print it out and ask your vet what dosing protocol he's following. we've had 4 diabetic cats go off insulin in the past month, if you've been following them. there are 2 more getting there that will likely be doing OTJ trials before long. in all, we've had about 300 cats go off by following this protocol. so it's proven - both in studies and in practice. This is the protocol: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19592286
when oliver hit the 48, he bounced. an explanation of that is on the second post here in New Dose Wonkiness at that point, he needed a dose reduction (shooting through the am bounce was fine) to 1.75u. he was still in a bounce from that when you increased back to 2.0u. that sends numbers wonky, and it's put him at a higher dose than he needs. it is really dangerous to not take dose reductions with a newly diagnosed cat - as their pancreas heals, you need less and less insulin injected because their pancreas is sputtering and helping produce some as well.
you don't need different syringes - there aren't any with .25u markings. there was a discussion about this on your last post on 12/3 http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=109308&p=1155348#p1155348. maybe you didn't see the replies on that one. some people use magnifying glasses to see the lines, if that helps you.
it's really important to wait to evaluate a dose until a bounce has cleared. when you increased back to 2.0u, that was during a bounce. Not all high numbers require more insulin!!!! vets tend to see high numbers and think that means increase, but we have a spreadsheet that we can see that these high numbers are from bouncing, not from a too-low dose of insulin. if Oliver clears the bounce and has too much insulin in him, he might very well come down like a freight train. If i were you, i would absolutely decrease back to 1.75u in order to keep him safe, then wait for 3 days after the blue 150 you saw a day or so ago (his ss closed when chrome crashed, so i don't have it open in front of me) before you change his dose again.
hope you guys are having a great day! we're snowed in here - always a cause for celebration in oregon!
Keep asking questions, kelly - you'll get there and Oliver will do better. he's responding really nicely to the insulin - it just takes persistence and some time. btw, when you post in Main Health, people assume you're new and won't know what advice you are getting here. you probably just want to post here.
kellykramer
Member Since 2013
Re: 12/6 Oliver AMPS 505
Oh Julie thanks for your time and response. Sorry for technology UGH And Amy you are a sweetie. :YMHUG:
I am so appreciative of you guys here.
I love the commitment
I hope I can help someone some day, but it seems i am just not getting it. I will do more listening, studying and communicating.
I have a lil time today, Its not snowing but like 21 below Windshield factor.
COLD
I will take your advise and go back to the 1.75 tonight. Thanks makes sense.
I will need to get a magnify glass for sure. LOL my eyes cross trying to see that some early mornings.
Will post BG and hope and pray we get to the 150's
Also I guess I did not notice I posted in the Main forum? Blonde
Kelly
Oh Julie thanks for your time and response. Sorry for technology UGH And Amy you are a sweetie. :YMHUG:
I am so appreciative of you guys here.
I love the commitment
I hope I can help someone some day, but it seems i am just not getting it. I will do more listening, studying and communicating.I have a lil time today, Its not snowing but like 21 below Windshield factor.
COLD I will take your advise and go back to the 1.75 tonight. Thanks makes sense.
I will need to get a magnify glass for sure. LOL my eyes cross trying to see that some early mornings.
Will post BG and hope and pray we get to the 150's
Also I guess I did not notice I posted in the Main forum? Blonde
Kelly
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/6 Oliver AMPS 505 5+431
no worries at all! i wasn't trying to make you feel bad, just explain things so you can help him as best as possible.
you'll get there. one of the previous advisors on this forum said "be a tank. a tank always gets where it's going." it's so true with feline diabetes - you just have to keep trying and then for most cats, something clicks, you hit the right dose, there's no other health issues at the moment, and then the cat will make a lot of progress.
some people use reading glasses to see the syringes. you can even "stack" 2 pair at once. you put one pair on, then another pair on top. that really clears things up! some people buy magnifiers that are on giant clips from the craft store. they can get clipped onto a kitchen cupboard door. a couple of people, ella/rusty and anne/zener, i think, have bought these headgear kinda optical magnifiers to be able to see the syringes. if you need that, you might ask one of them where they bought them.
no worries at all! i wasn't trying to make you feel bad, just explain things so you can help him as best as possible.
you'll get there. one of the previous advisors on this forum said "be a tank. a tank always gets where it's going." it's so true with feline diabetes - you just have to keep trying and then for most cats, something clicks, you hit the right dose, there's no other health issues at the moment, and then the cat will make a lot of progress.
some people use reading glasses to see the syringes. you can even "stack" 2 pair at once. you put one pair on, then another pair on top. that really clears things up! some people buy magnifiers that are on giant clips from the craft store. they can get clipped onto a kitchen cupboard door. a couple of people, ella/rusty and anne/zener, i think, have bought these headgear kinda optical magnifiers to be able to see the syringes. if you need that, you might ask one of them where they bought them.
Re: 12/6 Oliver AMPS 505 5+431
The link that Julie provided will get you to the abstract of the journal article that includes the Tight Regulation protocol Here's the article:
The language of the TR protocol can be a bit obscure. If you look in the TR protocol sticky, the language is much clearer. Even with clearer language, there's still a good deal of nuance. We're happy to lend a hand in any way that we can. There are a couple of basics to try to keep in mind. One of the basics is that a drop below 50 means the dose needs to be reduced. Another is that doses need time to settle -- at least 3 days (6 cycles). Because Lantus is a long-acting, depot-type of insulin, if you change doses too quickly, you end up with wonky numbers. Right now, Oliver is bouncing off of the 150 from yesterday morning. You don't want to raise the dose since once the bounce clears, it's likely that numbers will drop back down.
The link that Julie provided will get you to the abstract of the journal article that includes the Tight Regulation protocol Here's the article:
The language of the TR protocol can be a bit obscure. If you look in the TR protocol sticky, the language is much clearer. Even with clearer language, there's still a good deal of nuance. We're happy to lend a hand in any way that we can. There are a couple of basics to try to keep in mind. One of the basics is that a drop below 50 means the dose needs to be reduced. Another is that doses need time to settle -- at least 3 days (6 cycles). Because Lantus is a long-acting, depot-type of insulin, if you change doses too quickly, you end up with wonky numbers. Right now, Oliver is bouncing off of the 150 from yesterday morning. You don't want to raise the dose since once the bounce clears, it's likely that numbers will drop back down.
kellykramer
Member Since 2013
Ok Thanks ladies as we are dticking with the 1.75 and holding High! LOL
It will and can drop so fast with him that I will be keeping track closely!
It will and can drop so fast with him that I will be keeping track closely!
- Status