12/5 Mikey +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this! Another dip +6
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Georgia and Simon (GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/5 Mikey AMPS 338...Fingers crossed after long night
I haven't posted in your condo before and wanted to welcome you to LL. You are doing an amazing job! Those long nights are so hard but the good news is that he has a reduction. Congrats!
I haven't posted in your condo before and wanted to welcome you to LL. You are doing an amazing job! Those long nights are so hard but the good news is that he has a reduction. Congrats!
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/5 Mikey AMPS 338 +1 291..Fingers crossed after long n
Two nights in row and you are just starting. You are indeed getting a baptism by fire. You are handling it so well though Amy. Things will get better. At the rate her is going Mikey may set a record for OTJ anti-jinx!
I know this can get expensive, but there are ways to keep the costs doesn't. What meter are you using? Retail the Relion is about the cheapest around and most here really like it. Many of us shop online and strips are much cheaper. Some people use eBay and a lot of us got to ADW. If you use the Relion meter they carry Arkray, which actually makes the strips for Walmart. The strips are even cheaper there than in the store. Strips are really the most expensive part of this.
Do you have half unit marked syringes? Down in these micro doses they are really helpful. Again, many of us use ADW, that link takes you to the ones we use.
Get some rest today, you deserve it. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup
Two nights in row and you are just starting. You are indeed getting a baptism by fire. You are handling it so well though Amy. Things will get better. At the rate her is going Mikey may set a record for OTJ anti-jinx!
I know this can get expensive, but there are ways to keep the costs doesn't. What meter are you using? Retail the Relion is about the cheapest around and most here really like it. Many of us shop online and strips are much cheaper. Some people use eBay and a lot of us got to ADW. If you use the Relion meter they carry Arkray, which actually makes the strips for Walmart. The strips are even cheaper there than in the store. Strips are really the most expensive part of this.
Do you have half unit marked syringes? Down in these micro doses they are really helpful. Again, many of us use ADW, that link takes you to the ones we use.
Get some rest today, you deserve it. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :thumbup :thumbup :thumbup
Roni and Moonie
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/5 Mikey AMPS 338 +1 291..Fingers crossed after long n
If I didnt welcome you also--Welcome & you are doing a great Job!!
Looks like he is bouncing today, but that will pass( a bounce can last upn to 72 hours) so dont worry..
You could use some sleep! Take care of yourself so you can take care of Mikey!
Have a good Monday!
If I didnt welcome you also--Welcome & you are doing a great Job!!
Looks like he is bouncing today, but that will pass( a bounce can last upn to 72 hours) so dont worry..
You could use some sleep! Take care of yourself so you can take care of Mikey!
Have a good Monday!
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey AMPS 338 +1 291..Fingers crossed after long n
At +2 we're at 308. I feel like we're going backwards now; he's never been this high at +2. I don't want to start changing doses left and right, but now wondering if dropping another .25 was the wrong thing to do...
At +2 we're at 308. I feel like we're going backwards now; he's never been this high at +2. I don't want to start changing doses left and right, but now wondering if dropping another .25 was the wrong thing to do...
Ann & Tess GA
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/5 Mikey AMPS 338 +1 291..Fingers crossed after long n
No, don't change the dose. Lantus builds up a shed and you need to hold every dose change for at least 3 day unless low numbers intervene. This is what we call a bounce. When a cat has lower BG than his body is used to the liver dumps glucagon and other hormones into the blood stream as a survival mechanism. As Mikey gets accustomed to being in normal range BG the bouncing will stop. Frankly, this is what most of us expected yesterday. Another thing is when he ate in relation to the test. I usually try for at least an hour after feeding, otherwise you will be seeing all the carbs from the food just hitting the bloodstream. Since he was down at +1 I wonder if this may be the case.
We look at this as an opportunity to get some rest. :lol:
No, don't change the dose. Lantus builds up a shed and you need to hold every dose change for at least 3 day unless low numbers intervene. This is what we call a bounce. When a cat has lower BG than his body is used to the liver dumps glucagon and other hormones into the blood stream as a survival mechanism. As Mikey gets accustomed to being in normal range BG the bouncing will stop. Frankly, this is what most of us expected yesterday. Another thing is when he ate in relation to the test. I usually try for at least an hour after feeding, otherwise you will be seeing all the carbs from the food just hitting the bloodstream. Since he was down at +1 I wonder if this may be the case.
We look at this as an opportunity to get some rest. :lol:
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/5 Mikey AMPS 338 +1 291 +2 308..Going Backwards?
Hi Mikey and Amy and welcome,
You are doing just fine. Don't worry about the bounce you are seeing today. It is totally normal, as Ann has said. Keep the dose where it is and let Mikey settle in. He has a lot going on in his body right now and he is not used to the low numbers. As Roni says, it can take up to 72 hours to clear a bounce.
How is Mikey in general? Is he acting his normal self? Playing, eating, etc. etc.? The WCR (Whole Cat Report; observations on your kitty's day) is a good way to keep from dwelling too much on the numbers. Numbers are just numbers and Mikey is so much more.
Have a fine day,
Ella & Rusty
Hi Mikey and Amy and welcome,
You are doing just fine. Don't worry about the bounce you are seeing today. It is totally normal, as Ann has said. Keep the dose where it is and let Mikey settle in. He has a lot going on in his body right now and he is not used to the low numbers. As Roni says, it can take up to 72 hours to clear a bounce.
How is Mikey in general? Is he acting his normal self? Playing, eating, etc. etc.? The WCR (Whole Cat Report; observations on your kitty's day) is a good way to keep from dwelling too much on the numbers. Numbers are just numbers and Mikey is so much more.
Have a fine day,
Ella & Rusty
Re: 12/5 Mikey AMPS 338 +1 291 +2 308..Going Backwards?
I've got to get to work but I saw your note. These are flat numbers. There's about 20% variance due to any meter so a 291 and a 308 are pretty much the same number. Don't get overly tied to each individual number. It's the trends that are important!!
I've got to get to work but I saw your note. These are flat numbers. There's about 20% variance due to any meter so a 291 and a 308 are pretty much the same number. Don't get overly tied to each individual number. It's the trends that are important!!
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey AMPS 338 +1 291 +2 308..Going Backwards?
At +5 he's only down to 248. He should be close to nadir by now...is this still normal if he's bouncing from being at 50 last night?
He seems to be acting fine. He wolfed down his lunch (so far, lower numbers don't mean lower appetite, either), seems to be using the box normally, and stomped all over me while I was trying to catch up on some sleep, and we just finished a play session of "vanquish the red dot" with his buddy Jesse James He naps, of course, but doesn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary.
Actually, to me, it looks like he might even be gaining a little weight, but that could just be my wishful thinking. He doesn't seem as bony when I look at him, though I can still feel his bony little self.
At +5 he's only down to 248. He should be close to nadir by now...is this still normal if he's bouncing from being at 50 last night?
He seems to be acting fine. He wolfed down his lunch (so far, lower numbers don't mean lower appetite, either), seems to be using the box normally, and stomped all over me while I was trying to catch up on some sleep, and we just finished a play session of "vanquish the red dot" with his buddy Jesse James He naps, of course, but doesn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary.
Actually, to me, it looks like he might even be gaining a little weight, but that could just be my wishful thinking. He doesn't seem as bony when I look at him, though I can still feel his bony little self.
Re: 12/5 Mikey AMPS 338 +2 308 +5 248 Worst Yet-Going Backwa
Yes...it is normal. He isn't going backwards. It can take up to six cycles to clear out a bounce. Doesn't mean it will take Mikey that long but just hold on and please
do not increase his dose without someone looking at his SS and making sure he has cleared his bounce and is still not getting into good numbers. It's tough but
gotta be patient.
Great job last night. Glad you got some rest. Today would be a good day, if possible, to restock that hypo kit and don't forget chocolate for you ;-)
Yes...it is normal. He isn't going backwards. It can take up to six cycles to clear out a bounce. Doesn't mean it will take Mikey that long but just hold on and please
do not increase his dose without someone looking at his SS and making sure he has cleared his bounce and is still not getting into good numbers. It's tough but
gotta be patient.
Great job last night. Glad you got some rest. Today would be a good day, if possible, to restock that hypo kit and don't forget chocolate for you ;-)
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey AMPS 338 +2 308 +5 248 Worst Yet-Going Backwa
Thanks! I hope it's a bounce and not a backslide. We'll continue with the .5U and do another curve tomorrow. For now, I'm giving Mikey's ears a break (they both have huge bruises though calendula/comfrey salve has helped a little) until probably +11 since his numbers are high.
For those who asked, we are using a Relion Confirm meter. Which of the Arkray strips correspond with that meter? I will look into getting them online.
Mikey seems like he's feeling okay. He just played kick the can with an empty FF can and now he's taking up a full half of the sofa for his nap. I think I might go join him.
Thanks! I hope it's a bounce and not a backslide. We'll continue with the .5U and do another curve tomorrow. For now, I'm giving Mikey's ears a break (they both have huge bruises though calendula/comfrey salve has helped a little) until probably +11 since his numbers are high.
For those who asked, we are using a Relion Confirm meter. Which of the Arkray strips correspond with that meter? I will look into getting them online.
Mikey seems like he's feeling okay. He just played kick the can with an empty FF can and now he's taking up a full half of the sofa for his nap. I think I might go join him.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey AMPS 338 +11 247...Maybe bounce is slowing do
it's not backsliding - it's a step that all the cats go through on the way to getting to lower numbers. so mikey is doing fine. for now, keep marching on just as you have been doing. the bounce can take up to 3 days to clear - you'll know it's cleared when you see numbers back in the green range again and there's a bit of a curve that's obviously a nadir in the cycle. does that make sense? it took me 6 months to even see a bounce, so keep asking away. i don't think it's probably clearing yet, but who knows.
i don't know the answer to your question about the strips, but we'd all go bankrupt buying strips retail! online is essential - people buy from ebay, hocks.com, and american diabetes wholesale mainly. if you sign up for mrrebates.com you can go to ADW through the mrrebates.com site and get an additional 4% back after the fact. i just got a $25 check from mrrebates.com.
enjoy the bounce while you've got it! less testing during this time gives you a break.
it's not backsliding - it's a step that all the cats go through on the way to getting to lower numbers. so mikey is doing fine. for now, keep marching on just as you have been doing. the bounce can take up to 3 days to clear - you'll know it's cleared when you see numbers back in the green range again and there's a bit of a curve that's obviously a nadir in the cycle. does that make sense? it took me 6 months to even see a bounce, so keep asking away. i don't think it's probably clearing yet, but who knows.
i don't know the answer to your question about the strips, but we'd all go bankrupt buying strips retail! online is essential - people buy from ebay, hocks.com, and american diabetes wholesale mainly. if you sign up for mrrebates.com you can go to ADW through the mrrebates.com site and get an additional 4% back after the fact. i just got a $25 check from mrrebates.com.
enjoy the bounce while you've got it! less testing during this time gives you a break.
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/5 Mikey AMPS 338 +1 291 +2 308..Going Backwards?
:lol: This sounds pretty darn good to me. :mrgreen:
The flat numbers are normal when he is in a bounce. The good thing is that he has come down since this morning (but not too fast) so I'm guessing this bounce won't take the full 72 hours to clear. Maybe tonight even.
MikeysMom said:
:lol: This sounds pretty darn good to me. :mrgreen:
The flat numbers are normal when he is in a bounce. The good thing is that he has come down since this morning (but not too fast) so I'm guessing this bounce won't take the full 72 hours to clear. Maybe tonight even.
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247...Praying for no all-nighter!
OK, what gives. I cut the dose AGAIN and at PM +2 Mikey is again down to 51. Better than the 40 from the other night, but this is after a bounce today. What is going on? I don't think I can take these all-nighters much longer. I'm SO tired. I'm going through strips like water and i don't have any money. What could be causing this and what do I do? I'll call my vet's office in the morning, but my vet is out til Wednesday, so I don't know if they can help much. The low-spike-bounce numbers can't be good for him. I know they're not good for me. I seriously can't concentrate on anything, this is literally ALL I've thought of for days now. I'm not getting any work done, I'm not sleeping at night, all I'm doing is thinking about Mikey and praying that this isn't going to happen again. I thought Lantus was supposed to be gentle...
ETA, I'm posting here because I have been and some of you know our history. We're not TR yet, and I don't know what direction I can take. I can post in the other forum instead. if you think I should.
OK, what gives. I cut the dose AGAIN and at PM +2 Mikey is again down to 51. Better than the 40 from the other night, but this is after a bounce today. What is going on? I don't think I can take these all-nighters much longer. I'm SO tired. I'm going through strips like water and i don't have any money. What could be causing this and what do I do? I'll call my vet's office in the morning, but my vet is out til Wednesday, so I don't know if they can help much. The low-spike-bounce numbers can't be good for him. I know they're not good for me. I seriously can't concentrate on anything, this is literally ALL I've thought of for days now. I'm not getting any work done, I'm not sleeping at night, all I'm doing is thinking about Mikey and praying that this isn't going to happen again. I thought Lantus was supposed to be gentle...
ETA, I'm posting here because I have been and some of you know our history. We're not TR yet, and I don't know what direction I can take. I can post in the other forum instead. if you think I should.
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
at +2.5 holding at 51. I gave a lick of Nutrical. Mikey cried and struggled the entire time I was trying to get a draw. I can't take this much longer. For the first time tonight I wonder if this will ever get better or if I need to consider the end. How is this better for him?
at +2.5 holding at 51. I gave a lick of Nutrical. Mikey cried and struggled the entire time I was trying to get a draw. I can't take this much longer. For the first time tonight I wonder if this will ever get better or if I need to consider the end. How is this better for him?
mybuddybinks
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
Hang in there, Amy....
you're seeing some shed action...even though you reduced, there was still some excess insulin in the shed.
That's quite a drop yet again...seems to me like Mikey may be one of the kitties who works their way off insulin quickly.
(again...my opinion only
)
celi
Hang in there, Amy....
you're seeing some shed action...even though you reduced, there was still some excess insulin in the shed.
That's quite a drop yet again...seems to me like Mikey may be one of the kitties who works their way off insulin quickly.
(again...my opinion only
)celi
Violet and Garland
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
You are doing great. It gets easier I promise! Have you tried feeding a tiny bit of gravy food? That's what I do when Garland gets in the 40s and 50s. Brings her up just enough . Every cat is different. I think you are AMAZING!!!
You are doing great. It gets easier I promise! Have you tried feeding a tiny bit of gravy food? That's what I do when Garland gets in the 40s and 50s. Brings her up just enough . Every cat is different. I think you are AMAZING!!!
LynnLee + Mousie
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to be considering the end. that i'm sure. hang in there and we'll figure it out.
i have some thoughts but i'm gonna go look up your prior posts to get some history and will be back as soon as i can.
it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to be considering the end. that i'm sure. hang in there and we'll figure it out.
i have some thoughts but i'm gonna go look up your prior posts to get some history and will be back as soon as i can.
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
looks to me like Mikey needs another dose reduction. I would reduce to 0.25u tomorrow.
But for tonight, please test in another 30 minutes. He came up pretty quickly last night, so most likely he will do the same tonight. You just want to be sure.
looks to me like Mikey needs another dose reduction. I would reduce to 0.25u tomorrow.
But for tonight, please test in another 30 minutes. He came up pretty quickly last night, so most likely he will do the same tonight. You just want to be sure.
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
How about giving Mikey a teaspoon of gravy and a little bit of LC to snack on? He may be squirmy because he's hungry from the dropping numbers.
I think Mikey has been talking to Gabby -- she likes to dive early, too!
How about giving Mikey a teaspoon of gravy and a little bit of LC to snack on? He may be squirmy because he's hungry from the dropping numbers.
I think Mikey has been talking to Gabby -- she likes to dive early, too!
Ollie(GA) & Patsy
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
Hang in there Amy...you are doing great. It will get better...Mikey is showing you he still has a pancreas. You're getting great advice.
Hang in there Amy...you are doing great. It will get better...Mikey is showing you he still has a pancreas. You're getting great advice.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
i agree with what celi said - as crazy as this feels, you are "lucky" in that mikey's really responsive to the insulin. while this is probably a little bit of leftover as the shed drains to the new dose, still, do the math - subtract .25 from the dose and another dose decrease . . . you have very little to go. hang in there! we have seen cats do this - it's fast and dirty. i don't know for certain, of course, that mikey's headed off insulin imminently, but it sure looks optimistic.
ok - to explain about the shed because that's kinda confusing. when you inject lantus some of it forms a precipitate under the skin. a literal spot of lantus. that depot/deposit/shed (all mean the same thing) does a slow-release thing that evens out the blood sugar. diabetes is a difficult disease to manage, and between people, dogs and cats, cats are the very hardest to get regulated. so while this is a bit crazy, on another insulin it would be even more dramatic.
anyway, when we increase a dose the shed has to "catch up" to the new dose. so sometimes we see a lag time between the new, higher dose and the better numbers. in fact, sometimes the BG goes up instead of down for a few days. then the shed and the dose seem to equalize and you see lower numbers. the same thing happens when a dose decreases. you decrease the dose in this evening's shot, but the shed was built to "fit" the slightly higher dose from this morning and yesterday. it sometimes takes one more cycle for that shed to drain and fit the new lower dose.
one thing we've noticed is that the bigger the dose, the bigger the shed, and with a big dose you can even skip a shot without having much difference in the BG numbers. you've got mikey on a small dose so that's not your circumstance, i'm just trying to illustrate the point.
the great news here, to brighten your perspective, is that 1) mikey is responding quickly to the insulin, 2) mikey is clearing bounces quickly and 3) mikey is needing reductions in his dose. also, at this stage of the game there is no difference between tight regulation and anything else. you simply have a dose that is very small that you're giving twice a day and monitoring enough to keep mikey safe.
i'd encourage you to try to be patient and see the good side of this. you actually have a great situation that may very well be a short term situation. i know it's hard at the moment, especially since it's happened very quickly for you! hugs hugs & more hugs!
i agree with what celi said - as crazy as this feels, you are "lucky" in that mikey's really responsive to the insulin. while this is probably a little bit of leftover as the shed drains to the new dose, still, do the math - subtract .25 from the dose and another dose decrease . . . you have very little to go. hang in there! we have seen cats do this - it's fast and dirty. i don't know for certain, of course, that mikey's headed off insulin imminently, but it sure looks optimistic.
ok - to explain about the shed because that's kinda confusing. when you inject lantus some of it forms a precipitate under the skin. a literal spot of lantus. that depot/deposit/shed (all mean the same thing) does a slow-release thing that evens out the blood sugar. diabetes is a difficult disease to manage, and between people, dogs and cats, cats are the very hardest to get regulated. so while this is a bit crazy, on another insulin it would be even more dramatic.
anyway, when we increase a dose the shed has to "catch up" to the new dose. so sometimes we see a lag time between the new, higher dose and the better numbers. in fact, sometimes the BG goes up instead of down for a few days. then the shed and the dose seem to equalize and you see lower numbers. the same thing happens when a dose decreases. you decrease the dose in this evening's shot, but the shed was built to "fit" the slightly higher dose from this morning and yesterday. it sometimes takes one more cycle for that shed to drain and fit the new lower dose.
one thing we've noticed is that the bigger the dose, the bigger the shed, and with a big dose you can even skip a shot without having much difference in the BG numbers. you've got mikey on a small dose so that's not your circumstance, i'm just trying to illustrate the point.
the great news here, to brighten your perspective, is that 1) mikey is responding quickly to the insulin, 2) mikey is clearing bounces quickly and 3) mikey is needing reductions in his dose. also, at this stage of the game there is no difference between tight regulation and anything else. you simply have a dose that is very small that you're giving twice a day and monitoring enough to keep mikey safe.
i'd encourage you to try to be patient and see the good side of this. you actually have a great situation that may very well be a short term situation. i know it's hard at the moment, especially since it's happened very quickly for you! hugs hugs & more hugs!
LynnLee + Mousie
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
between the uti clearing and switching to the low carb wet food i have to wonder a little if you should have even started insulin. thoughts in my head i suppose. it just seems like things might have possibly gotten worse when the insulin was started. the missing numbers on the evening of the 23rd and the whole day of the 24th might have told us more about that but that was the holiday too so can understand them missing.
i agree with dropping down to the .25, obviously because still the insulin in his body is too much and think of it as maybe starting over at a minimal dose and working up, if the need is there.
if the .25 again throws these low numbers so early, would the possibility of stopping insulin for a day or two to clear things out and see what happens be considered? i ask about that because my vet not too long ago asked me if i've ever tried it to see what Mousie would do since she stays in pretty good numbers most of the time. (my vet pretty much leaves Mousie's treatment up to me since i've been doing it for as long as we have)
between the uti clearing and switching to the low carb wet food i have to wonder a little if you should have even started insulin. thoughts in my head i suppose. it just seems like things might have possibly gotten worse when the insulin was started. the missing numbers on the evening of the 23rd and the whole day of the 24th might have told us more about that but that was the holiday too so can understand them missing.
i agree with dropping down to the .25, obviously because still the insulin in his body is too much and think of it as maybe starting over at a minimal dose and working up, if the need is there.
if the .25 again throws these low numbers so early, would the possibility of stopping insulin for a day or two to clear things out and see what happens be considered? i ask about that because my vet not too long ago asked me if i've ever tried it to see what Mousie would do since she stays in pretty good numbers most of the time. (my vet pretty much leaves Mousie's treatment up to me since i've been doing it for as long as we have)
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
Now he's down to 43. I syringed in some Karo and gave some LC food to follow it with. I know I should have gotten some HC wet today, but all I could do was sleep. I'm so tired. I'll call the vet tomorrow, but his vet isn't in and I don't think the other one is very knowledgeable. I'm starting to doubt if this is ever going to get better. I feel like I'm underwater.
ETA I'll ask my vet about skipping a dose or two to see what happens. But wouldn't that just cause this to happen all over again as he's building a new shed? And his preshot numbers are definitely high enough to warrant the shot. I will try the .25 units tomorrow and see where we are. I was supposed to get a curve to bring to the vet, but somehow, I don't see that happening accurately.
Now he's down to 43. I syringed in some Karo and gave some LC food to follow it with. I know I should have gotten some HC wet today, but all I could do was sleep. I'm so tired. I'll call the vet tomorrow, but his vet isn't in and I don't think the other one is very knowledgeable. I'm starting to doubt if this is ever going to get better. I feel like I'm underwater.
ETA I'll ask my vet about skipping a dose or two to see what happens. But wouldn't that just cause this to happen all over again as he's building a new shed? And his preshot numbers are definitely high enough to warrant the shot. I will try the .25 units tomorrow and see where we are. I was supposed to get a curve to bring to the vet, but somehow, I don't see that happening accurately.
mybuddybinks
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
totally understood on needing the sleep...
but this may be a very short stay on insulin for your guy!
totally understood on needing the sleep...
but this may be a very short stay on insulin for your guy!
milo
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
I am in no way able to give advise on dosing issues, but I can tell you one thing for sure when I read your posts It reminds me of myself when I first started, very overwhelmed and tired, confused, and worried about what to do and if your doing the right thing etc... but I can promise you the people on here will help you and guide you. I am currently on an OTJ trial with my Milo, but there would be no way that could have happened without the suppport and advise I received from the people here.My vet has even learned stuff from me that I learned here! They are awsome, understanding and they will stick it out with you on the days where you feel like you cant handle it anymore. Everything your feeling is normal, but it will all click and just know you are doing all this for the good of Mikey. Good luck, and just know everything will be ok..your not alone!
I am in no way able to give advise on dosing issues, but I can tell you one thing for sure when I read your posts It reminds me of myself when I first started, very overwhelmed and tired, confused, and worried about what to do and if your doing the right thing etc... but I can promise you the people on here will help you and guide you. I am currently on an OTJ trial with my Milo, but there would be no way that could have happened without the suppport and advise I received from the people here.My vet has even learned stuff from me that I learned here! They are awsome, understanding and they will stick it out with you on the days where you feel like you cant handle it anymore. Everything your feeling is normal, but it will all click and just know you are doing all this for the good of Mikey. Good luck, and just know everything will be ok..your not alone!
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
Amy --
I'm going to make a suggestion for your piece of mind and because I think Cindy's suggestion has merit. Let's get you through tonight. First, given the drop into the 40s, Mikey has nothing to prove. He's gotten a dose reduction. You can give him HC to your heart's content. Just get his numbers leveled off and get some sleep. That may take a little while but no worries.
I want to suggest that you skip Mikey's AM shot. (You can sleep in if you want to!!) I think we need to get his shed to drain a bit so you don't keep having to fight with the numbers. We can then help you to evaluate what his numbers look like tomorrow night.
How does that sound?
Amy --
I'm going to make a suggestion for your piece of mind and because I think Cindy's suggestion has merit. Let's get you through tonight. First, given the drop into the 40s, Mikey has nothing to prove. He's gotten a dose reduction. You can give him HC to your heart's content. Just get his numbers leveled off and get some sleep. That may take a little while but no worries.
I want to suggest that you skip Mikey's AM shot. (You can sleep in if you want to!!) I think we need to get his shed to drain a bit so you don't keep having to fight with the numbers. We can then help you to evaluate what his numbers look like tomorrow night.
How does that sound?
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
As stupid as it sounds, I don't know HOW that sounds. I'm scared to inject him and I'm scared not to and have him go DKA. I never thought this would be THIS hard. I thought we'd get him on insulin and sure, we'd have to adjust doses at first, but I never thought it would be like THIS. Like I said, I don't know WHAT to do at this point. My vet is great, but not terribly experienced with FD, though she has spent her days off researching it for Mikey, and she's not in tomorrow.
As stupid as it sounds, I don't know HOW that sounds. I'm scared to inject him and I'm scared not to and have him go DKA. I never thought this would be THIS hard. I thought we'd get him on insulin and sure, we'd have to adjust doses at first, but I never thought it would be like THIS. Like I said, I don't know WHAT to do at this point. My vet is great, but not terribly experienced with FD, though she has spent her days off researching it for Mikey, and she's not in tomorrow.
LynnLee + Mousie
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
my thinking at least is that the insulin is actually causing the higher numbers. you ever hear less is more? with insulin, if you give too much, it can cause hypo's and it can cause the opposite to happen, higher levels. which is what i see once insulin was started. now there's enough lantus built up in kitty's system that it's effect is lasting past one shot and you're getting the big drops. your cat is doing really well and is not otherwise sick right? now is the time to find out if things like this could be a possibility.
and, clearing things out for a day and starting back at a smaller dose, if needed, will not flood the shed or buildup effect that lantus has like too much insulin does
fwiw, it's much harder for them to go dka then hypo. he won't go dka overnight. and he needs you to be all there too. fwiw, waaaaaaay back when Mousie was first diagnosed, it got to me too. Mousie's numbers were hi and the meter even said HI to me and that was the straw that broke the camel's back. i fell apart. i cried and begged my fiance and really wanted to give my cat to my vet since i couldn't do a good enough job for her and see if the vet would fix her and give her back when she was.
i stepped away from it all for a bit. really. i did. and i watched my cat as i cried because i was failing. it was then that i realized that she was completely oblivious to my frustration, my anger, my sadness, and what i thought i was doing to her. she was a cat. my cat...... playing, being silly, eating, going potty, biting at me.........she didn't know she had diabetes or if her glucose level was 80 or 400....she just wanted more food and to run around and to remind me that i am human, i am beneath her
the bruises are normal in the beginning. even now, Mousie occasionally gets them but believe me, i've poked Mousie twice a day or more every single day since October 2006. that's thousands of pokes. and her ears look great. you can put a dab of neosporin on their ears if you'd like. it will help with healing
my thinking at least is that the insulin is actually causing the higher numbers. you ever hear less is more? with insulin, if you give too much, it can cause hypo's and it can cause the opposite to happen, higher levels. which is what i see once insulin was started. now there's enough lantus built up in kitty's system that it's effect is lasting past one shot and you're getting the big drops. your cat is doing really well and is not otherwise sick right? now is the time to find out if things like this could be a possibility.
and, clearing things out for a day and starting back at a smaller dose, if needed, will not flood the shed or buildup effect that lantus has like too much insulin does
fwiw, it's much harder for them to go dka then hypo. he won't go dka overnight. and he needs you to be all there too. fwiw, waaaaaaay back when Mousie was first diagnosed, it got to me too. Mousie's numbers were hi and the meter even said HI to me and that was the straw that broke the camel's back. i fell apart. i cried and begged my fiance and really wanted to give my cat to my vet since i couldn't do a good enough job for her and see if the vet would fix her and give her back when she was.
i stepped away from it all for a bit. really. i did. and i watched my cat as i cried because i was failing. it was then that i realized that she was completely oblivious to my frustration, my anger, my sadness, and what i thought i was doing to her. she was a cat. my cat...... playing, being silly, eating, going potty, biting at me.........she didn't know she had diabetes or if her glucose level was 80 or 400....she just wanted more food and to run around and to remind me that i am human, i am beneath her
the bruises are normal in the beginning. even now, Mousie occasionally gets them but believe me, i've poked Mousie twice a day or more every single day since October 2006. that's thousands of pokes. and her ears look great. you can put a dab of neosporin on their ears if you'd like. it will help with healing
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
Take a few breaths and slow down.
Unless Mikey has a history of ketones, or if he has an infection, isn't eating and isn't getting enough insulin, the chance of DKA is pretty remote. As an example, when Gabby was diagnosed, she was pretty sick -- pancreatitis, hepatic lipidosis, and DKA. We've never gone back that route.
When you're new at managing your cat's numbers, seeing tests that are below 50 is scarey -- panic attack scarey. I would spend a lot of late nights being up with Gabby. At one point, one of the members here was going through a similar experience as you've been. I sarcastically commented that in these parts, sleep is vastly overrated. The hard part is that you don't yet have the experience to know when it's safe to go to sleep. It's a matter of experience, confidence, and knowing your cat. The way Mikey is responding suggests that his pancreas is putting out its own insulin. That's a good thing. It's stressful for you, but it's a good thing. Hopefully, what it means is that Mikey will be out of here soon (anti-jinx).
Take a few breaths and slow down.
Unless Mikey has a history of ketones, or if he has an infection, isn't eating and isn't getting enough insulin, the chance of DKA is pretty remote. As an example, when Gabby was diagnosed, she was pretty sick -- pancreatitis, hepatic lipidosis, and DKA. We've never gone back that route.
When you're new at managing your cat's numbers, seeing tests that are below 50 is scarey -- panic attack scarey. I would spend a lot of late nights being up with Gabby. At one point, one of the members here was going through a similar experience as you've been. I sarcastically commented that in these parts, sleep is vastly overrated. The hard part is that you don't yet have the experience to know when it's safe to go to sleep. It's a matter of experience, confidence, and knowing your cat. The way Mikey is responding suggests that his pancreas is putting out its own insulin. That's a good thing. It's stressful for you, but it's a good thing. Hopefully, what it means is that Mikey will be out of here soon (anti-jinx).
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
most people get more time to get used to things before their cat decides to race down the dosing ladder. Mikey is on a mission, though. That's a GOOD thing. :mrgreen: It's exhausting right now, but the payoff can be huge.
Mikey hasn't had DKA before, has he? If not, then I don't think you need to worry about skipping one itty bitty shot. It's obvious you've been doing your homework to be thinking of that (I'm impressed!). But Mikey will be ok.
Some cats need just a teeny weeny dose of insulin, and for some cats that teeny dose is a stepping stone to no longer needing doses at all. We just have to follow Mikey's lead. You're doing great. :YMHUG:
most people get more time to get used to things before their cat decides to race down the dosing ladder. Mikey is on a mission, though. That's a GOOD thing. :mrgreen: It's exhausting right now, but the payoff can be huge.
Mikey hasn't had DKA before, has he? If not, then I don't think you need to worry about skipping one itty bitty shot. It's obvious you've been doing your homework to be thinking of that (I'm impressed!). But Mikey will be ok.
Some cats need just a teeny weeny dose of insulin, and for some cats that teeny dose is a stepping stone to no longer needing doses at all. We just have to follow Mikey's lead. You're doing great. :YMHUG:
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
AFAIK, he's never had DKA (a small miracle since he showed no symptoms except for weight loss, which I for too long attributed to his age). If I skip his dose in the morning, how often should I spot check? And should I drop to the .25 tomorrow night, or stay at .5?
AFAIK, he's never had DKA (a small miracle since he showed no symptoms except for weight loss, which I for too long attributed to his age). If I skip his dose in the morning, how often should I spot check? And should I drop to the .25 tomorrow night, or stay at .5?
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
With the drop into the 40s, you can reduce the dose to 0.25u.
I'd suggest testing and feeding at your usual time. You can grab a spot check or two -- at least one toward the middle of the cycle. You might want to get a +11 tomorrow afternoon/evening so we know where Mikey's at before his shot time.
With the drop into the 40s, you can reduce the dose to 0.25u.
I'd suggest testing and feeding at your usual time. You can grab a spot check or two -- at least one toward the middle of the cycle. You might want to get a +11 tomorrow afternoon/evening so we know where Mikey's at before his shot time.
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
OK, at +4 he's back to 83. I gave him a small snack with his Clavamox. Hopefully that will help hold him when the Karo wears off. I will test again at +5. I think I'm comfortable waiting as this is the same pattern of the last few nights.
I think I agree with skipping his dose in the AM, unless he's crazy high (400? 350?). I'll test 2-3 times during the day as well, and make sure to get a +11. I will forward his SS to the vet to look at for his appt. on Wednesday. As long as he's over 200 at +11 and PMPS, is a .25U injection tomorrow night a good idea? I will call my vet's office as well, just to keep them informed.
Thank you all again for your support. I don't have any from anywhere else, so I can't even begin to say how much it means.
OK, at +4 he's back to 83. I gave him a small snack with his Clavamox. Hopefully that will help hold him when the Karo wears off. I will test again at +5. I think I'm comfortable waiting as this is the same pattern of the last few nights.
I think I agree with skipping his dose in the AM, unless he's crazy high (400? 350?). I'll test 2-3 times during the day as well, and make sure to get a +11. I will forward his SS to the vet to look at for his appt. on Wednesday. As long as he's over 200 at +11 and PMPS, is a .25U injection tomorrow night a good idea? I will call my vet's office as well, just to keep them informed.
Thank you all again for your support. I don't have any from anywhere else, so I can't even begin to say how much it means.
mybuddybinks
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
it's amazing, isn't it? this is a magical place...
and get you some REST with the skipped shot, girl
it's amazing, isn't it? this is a magical place...
and get you some REST with the skipped shot, girl
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
Hi again,
I am so impressed with how well you are handling this, and I know how stressful it is for you. Mikey is going to be just fine tomorrow if you skip the shot. And please don't worry about his ears. I read once that cats' ears have been through so much over the centuries (think of cat fights, fights with other animals, bites, etc.; the ears are always involved in these skirmishes) that they have evolved to be less sensitive. If you put a little Neosporin creme with pain killer on his ears at night, they will heal overnight.
We all care about Mikey. We care about you. Get some sleep tonight. Tomorrow will take care of itself.
Ella & Rusty
Hi again,
I am so impressed with how well you are handling this, and I know how stressful it is for you. Mikey is going to be just fine tomorrow if you skip the shot. And please don't worry about his ears. I read once that cats' ears have been through so much over the centuries (think of cat fights, fights with other animals, bites, etc.; the ears are always involved in these skirmishes) that they have evolved to be less sensitive. If you put a little Neosporin creme with pain killer on his ears at night, they will heal overnight.
We all care about Mikey. We care about you. Get some sleep tonight. Tomorrow will take care of itself.
Ella & Rusty
Kathy and Kitty
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
Just stopping by to say you're doing a super job. And ditto on the ears. A dab of Neosporin or something works so well.
Hope you all get some rest!
Just stopping by to say you're doing a super job. And ditto on the ears. A dab of Neosporin or something works so well.
Hope you all get some rest!
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
I would think that if you test at +5.5 and he's still in this neighborhood, you can sleep. It looks like he is usually heading up by then.
I see you're in Mooresville. I'm in Charleston, SC now but I lived in Charlotte for 5 years, mostly in north Charlotte. Went to Mooresville sometimes for work. I liked it there, but I have to say I like Charleston more. ;-)
I would think that if you test at +5.5 and he's still in this neighborhood, you can sleep. It looks like he is usually heading up by then.
I see you're in Mooresville. I'm in Charleston, SC now but I lived in Charlotte for 5 years, mostly in north Charlotte. Went to Mooresville sometimes for work. I liked it there, but I have to say I like Charleston more. ;-)
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey PMPS 247 +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this!
Hmmm..at +6 he's back to 127. I was so hoping he'd be going up still. Now I'm not sure what to do. Was hoping we could get some sleep just one night...now I'm scared to go to sleep. I did give him another squirt of Nutrical.
I was so hoping for sleep...just one night. Is this EVER going to end?
Hmmm..at +6 he's back to 127. I was so hoping he'd be going up still. Now I'm not sure what to do. Was hoping we could get some sleep just one night...now I'm scared to go to sleep. I did give him another squirt of Nutrical.
I was so hoping for sleep...just one night. Is this EVER going to end?
Amanda
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/5 Mikey +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this! Another dip.
First of all - you're doing awesome! I know how stressful it all can be and Kazi and I are a year and a half in. Sienne's advice to skip tomorrow will give you a chance to decompress and catch up on your sleep. Remember... he likely had BG that was way too high for awhile before you got him started on insulin. One skipped shot isn't the end of the world. Heck I had to skip last Friday because I wanted to go to a hockey game and my backup shooter wasn't available! (Go Mavericks! ;-) ) Hang in there!
Most cat's see the majority of their action around +6 or sooner... with the HC action you've had to do the past couple days its hard to say...but it looks like Mikey falls in that category. Grab another test at +6.5 or +7 if it is still in the neighborhood of where you're at now I would think you're fine to go to bed.
First of all - you're doing awesome! I know how stressful it all can be and Kazi and I are a year and a half in. Sienne's advice to skip tomorrow will give you a chance to decompress and catch up on your sleep. Remember... he likely had BG that was way too high for awhile before you got him started on insulin. One skipped shot isn't the end of the world. Heck I had to skip last Friday because I wanted to go to a hockey game and my backup shooter wasn't available! (Go Mavericks! ;-) ) Hang in there!
Most cat's see the majority of their action around +6 or sooner... with the HC action you've had to do the past couple days its hard to say...but it looks like Mikey falls in that category. Grab another test at +6.5 or +7 if it is still in the neighborhood of where you're at now I would think you're fine to go to bed.
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this! Another dip
I'm trying. I've had 5 hours of sleep since Friday. I am literally at my breaking point, and he dipped again, so I'll be up all night AGAIN, it looks like. I'm afraid to sleep. I'm afraid to leave my house. I literally can't concentrate on anything else for more than five minutes for the last two days. I can't read a full page in my book, can't watch TV, can't even enjoy Facebook or my friends or anything, because I can't concentrate. All I've done is cry because I'm so exhausted and overwhelmed and i have nobody to turn to except this board. I have no family within 900 miles, none of my friends seem to care that I'm going through this, my roommate certainly can't be bothered. I have nobody and it never stops. I'll be spending Christmas alone this year because I certainly can't go home. I really don't know how much longer I can do this...
If I could have anything in the world right now it would be someone to take care of him for just one night...
I'm trying. I've had 5 hours of sleep since Friday. I am literally at my breaking point, and he dipped again, so I'll be up all night AGAIN, it looks like. I'm afraid to sleep. I'm afraid to leave my house. I literally can't concentrate on anything else for more than five minutes for the last two days. I can't read a full page in my book, can't watch TV, can't even enjoy Facebook or my friends or anything, because I can't concentrate. All I've done is cry because I'm so exhausted and overwhelmed and i have nobody to turn to except this board. I have no family within 900 miles, none of my friends seem to care that I'm going through this, my roommate certainly can't be bothered. I have nobody and it never stops. I'll be spending Christmas alone this year because I certainly can't go home. I really don't know how much longer I can do this...
If I could have anything in the world right now it would be someone to take care of him for just one night...
Re: 12/5 Mikey +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this! Another dip
Amy:
As Sienne said, you can give him HC and get him up high enough where you can sleep. I wouldn't give him karo because it will wear off but give him a good portion of HC and see if that brings him up
high enough that you can get some sleep.
Mikey is earning reductions quickly and clearing bounces quickly. If you hang in there, others might be right that he might be done with this whole diabetes gig soon. Then you are free again to do
the things you enjoy and sleep.
Amy:
As Sienne said, you can give him HC and get him up high enough where you can sleep. I wouldn't give him karo because it will wear off but give him a good portion of HC and see if that brings him up
high enough that you can get some sleep.
Mikey is earning reductions quickly and clearing bounces quickly. If you hang in there, others might be right that he might be done with this whole diabetes gig soon. Then you are free again to do
the things you enjoy and sleep.
Amanda
Member Since 2010
Re: 12/5 Mikey +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this! Another dip
I was a wreck for several weeks after Kazi was diagnosed - it's a lot to take in and digest. I was worried I would kill my cat....in reality you're kitty is quite a bit safer than most diabetic cats out there. My vet sent me home with instructions to shoot a unit twice a day and that it was "nearly impossible" for her to hypo on that small of a dose. As you're learning with Mikey that isn't the case - but because you're proactive and testing you KNEW Mikey was going too low and dropped his dose accordingly.
HC dry can take longer to kick in - and it takes longer to clear their system. Tomorrow swing by Walmart and pick up several cans of "gravy lovers". I keep 5-6 in a plastic container with my extra strips etc.
I was a wreck for several weeks after Kazi was diagnosed - it's a lot to take in and digest. I was worried I would kill my cat....in reality you're kitty is quite a bit safer than most diabetic cats out there. My vet sent me home with instructions to shoot a unit twice a day and that it was "nearly impossible" for her to hypo on that small of a dose. As you're learning with Mikey that isn't the case - but because you're proactive and testing you KNEW Mikey was going too low and dropped his dose accordingly.
HC dry can take longer to kick in - and it takes longer to clear their system. Tomorrow swing by Walmart and pick up several cans of "gravy lovers". I keep 5-6 in a plastic container with my extra strips etc.
MikeysMom
Member Since 2011
Re: 12/5 Mikey +2 51 AGAIN...I can't take this! Another dip
I'll get some; I need more test strips anyway. How I'm going to pay for them is another question, another stress adding to all of this. I haven't had a paycheck in almost two months, and though I have one coming this week, I don't know when there might be another, and it already has to cover more than it possibly can. I can sleep in my car, but my dog and three cats can't. This is just too much.
I'll get some; I need more test strips anyway. How I'm going to pay for them is another question, another stress adding to all of this. I haven't had a paycheck in almost two months, and though I have one coming this week, I don't know when there might be another, and it already has to cover more than it possibly can. I can sleep in my car, but my dog and three cats can't. This is just too much.
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