12/4 Webster PMPS=595 2.5=406

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

Websterthecat

Member Since 2014
Yesterday's condo

Websters numbers last night started at 489 and ended up at 137 this morning. If I recall correctly, a steadily falling number usually indicates that a bounce is clearing?

I was going to bring his dose back up to .50u from .25u this morning however, due to the lower than expected number, I went with the .25u just to see what would happen today.

I altered his eating schedule and amounts this morning to 2oz,1oz,1oz @ PS,+1,+2 respectively from 1oz,1oz,1oz,1oz @PS,+1,+2,+3.

The idea here is to prevent these early cycle drop offs by intercepting the initial onset of the insulin with a food spike and then feed him over the next couple hours to keep the momentum going. Unfortunately, for the first time in a few days,he's not insanely hungry and didn't inhale his 2oz morning portion immediately as I thought he would. He did however have his bowl almost licked clean within 20 mins.

Edit: These numbers are looking pretty nice! He has eaten his morning portions and seems to be holding up fairly well so far without additional carb support.
 
Re: 12/4 Webster PMPS=595

595! What the heck just happened! We were doing so well today! :?

I started dosing using the caliper this evening. My auto feeder also came in and I set it up to go off a few mins ago right before his insulin. I wish I could have recorded his reaction when he saw that thing spin around and food appear!! It was hilarious!

Should I hold the dose with today's numbers?
 
Re: 12/4 Webster PMPS=595

Mikey was in the black at preshot today too. I'm telling you, it's a conspiracy. Brats.
 
Re: 12/4 Webster PMPS=595

Whenever I am unsure of what to do with a dose, I refer back to the protocol guidelines and go back and forth with the spreadsheet, comparing what's on the spreadsheet and figuring out what part of the protocol seems most closely to fit the particular situation. In Webster's case, you're making a decision about a reduction that you gave him 8 cycles ago, so I'd look at the part on reductions:

If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose as soon as you see kitty's numbers trending upwards. You don't have to hold the reduced dose for a certain number of cycles before taking the dose right back up. The guidelines listed under the topic "Increasing the dose" do not apply to a failed reduction.

Please use common sense in this situation. The "last good dose" is not the dose that just dropped kitty into the 20s or 30s. You want to resume momentum by finding a dose in-between the dose that dropped kitty too low and the reduced dose.
Click to expand...

I'd ask the question "is the reduction working, or is this a failed reduction?" The idea with a reduction is that the cat continue to have the same green numbers post-reduction that they had pre-reduction. Before the reduction he had a nice long green cycle that was between 44 and 98 for several hours. He hasn't had that again.

I think it looks like he hasn't held the reduction and I would increase him back to 0.5u. He got to 44 with the 0.5u last time. Since it wasn't under 40, I think it's ok to try that dose again and see how it works this time. If you're concerned about going back to that dose, you could figure out something that you could call a skinny 0.5u, something just a hair less than half a unit and try it.

by the way,
 
Re: 12/4 Webster PMPS=595

oh, and i meant to say that you want to always keep in mind that the highs will come down - making the decision to increase the dose is based upon how LOW the dose is taking the cat.
 
Re: 12/4 Webster PMPS=595

Julie, We did the higher dose with a slightly higher carb food for Mikey. Would that be helpful for Webster? They seem to be two of a kind. The brat kind.
 
Re: 12/4 Webster PMPS=595

julie & punkin (ga) said:
Whenever I am unsure of what to do with a dose, I refer back to the protocol guidelines and go back and forth with the spreadsheet, comparing what's on the spreadsheet and figuring out what part of the protocol seems most closely to fit the particular situation. In Webster's case, you're making a decision about a reduction that you gave him 8 cycles ago, so I'd look at the part on reductions:

If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose as soon as you see kitty's numbers trending upwards. You don't have to hold the reduced dose for a certain number of cycles before taking the dose right back up. The guidelines listed under the topic "Increasing the dose" do not apply to a failed reduction.

Please use common sense in this situation. The "last good dose" is not the dose that just dropped kitty into the 20s or 30s. You want to resume momentum by finding a dose in-between the dose that dropped kitty too low and the reduced dose.
Click to expand...

I'd ask the question "is the reduction working, or is this a failed reduction?" The idea with a reduction is that the cat continue to have the same green numbers post-reduction that they had pre-reduction. Before the reduction he had a nice long green cycle that was between 44 and 98 for several hours. He hasn't had that again.

I think it looks like he hasn't held the reduction and I would increase him back to 0.5u. He got to 44 with the 0.5u last time. Since it wasn't under 40, I think it's ok to try that dose again and see how it works this time. If you're concerned about going back to that dose, you could figure out something that you could call a skinny 0.5u, something just a hair less than half a unit and try it.

by the way,
Click to expand...

I agree. Looking at todays numbers I was hopeful that the .25u dose was settling down and the new feeding schedule was keeping him afloat. However, he returned to the black once again today. I'm going back to .5u in the morning. Thanks for the reply. :smile:
 
Part of the reason for suggesting a higher low carb for Mikey was not just because of the diving, but because he couldn't even take a 0.1u dose without tanking. It's important to get a cat to spend some time in healing #s, and we weren't coming any where near that with Mikey. That's a little bit different than Webster's situation.

What % carbs are you feeding him for his regular low carb, mike?
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Part of the reason for suggesting a higher low carb for Mikey was not just because of the diving, but because he couldn't even take a 0.1u dose without tanking. It's important to get a cat to spend some time in healing #s, and we weren't coming any where near that with Mikey. That's a little bit different than Webster's situation.

What % carbs are you feeding him for his regular low carb, mike?
Click to expand...

According to Dr. List Pierson, his Friskies Special Diet Turkey and Giblets should be around 5% carbs.
 
If he doesn't come down tonight and give you a better PS in the morning, I'd agree with Julie that it would be good to raise the dose in the morning.
 
If I see Max starting to get too low too quickly I have been successful giving him some 9% food. I use TraderJoe's turkey and giblets but anything a little higher than what Webster usually gets might help.
 
Thanks everyone. I went with the higher dose this morning and slightly altered his feeding schedule to PS=2oz, +1=1oz +2=.5oz +3=.5oz to stretch it out a little further and give him a nice spike at the beginning of his cycle. I'm considering shaving a few grams off from each portion to create a snack at +9 since he usually looking for food around this time.

As for trying a higher carb food, that's the plan if altering his feeding schedule does not work. ;-)

About this Trader Joe's food - is it the pate style? This might actually work out well because Trader Joe's is nearby and it gives me an excuse to go there. I had no idea that they even sold cat food.

Inexpensive cat food, an amazing selection of good inexpensive wine... this is really beginning to sound like a great idea. :-D
 
tiffmaxee said:
If I see Max starting to get too low too quickly I have been successful giving him some 9% food. I use TraderJoe's turkey and giblets but anything a little higher than what Webster usually gets might help.
Click to expand...

So would it be appropriate to feed him this Trader Joe's T&G as his main course or just to slow him down when crashing?
 
Websterthecat said:
So would it be appropriate to feed him this Trader Joe's T&G as his main course or just to slow him down when crashing?
Click to expand...

That is where trial and error comes into play. I have been giving the 9% to Max if I see he is dropping too fast and/or too early in the cycle. It seems to be helping to prevent bounces. Since we still don't want Max to drop under 40 and earn a reduction and I prefer he stay above 50 I also give him a little 9% if he gets into the low 60's to keep him surfing there and not dropping any further if it is before his nadir. For now it seems to be working.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Websterthecat said:
So would it be appropriate to feed him this Trader Joe's T&G as his main course or just to slow him down when crashing?
Click to expand...

That is where trial and error comes into play. I have been giving the 9% to Max if I see he is dropping too fast and/or too early in the cycle. It seems to be helping to prevent bounces. Since we still don't want Max to drop under 40 and earn a reduction and I prefer he stay above 50 I also give him a little 9% if he gets into the low 60's to keep him surfing there and not dropping any further if it is before his nadir. For now it seems to be working.
Click to expand...

I guess what I was getting at was can I try to feed him this 9% TJ food exclusively (not just used as a boost to bring him up or keep him surfing) to see what happens or is 9% too high of a carb content as an everyday meal for diabetic cats? Also, is their Turkey & Giblets food pate style?
 
Some cats actually do better with a 9-10% calories from carb food as their regular food. Try it....you'll never know unless you do. It might actually flatten him out a bit. And even if it flattens him on the higher side, you can slightly increase the insulin.

manage the curve with food----> flatten the curve-----> adjust the dose (if necessary)

Just keep in mind that "managing the curve with food" doesn't mean feeding HC. Yes, if he goes low or is dropping like a rock, you may need to use the HC. But managing the curve with food means LC food at regular, consistent feeding times designed best to work with HIS curve.
 
Yes, the turkey and giblets is pate style. Max wasn't as crazy about the chicken, turkey, and rice which I think might be a little higher in carbs.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Some cats actually do better with a 9-10% calories from carb food as their regular food. Try it....you'll never know unless you do. It might actually flatten him out a bit. And even if it flattens him on the higher side, you can slightly increase the insulin.

manage the curve with food----> flatten the curve-----> adjust the dose (if necessary)

Just keep in mind that "managing the curve with food" doesn't mean feeding HC. Yes, if he goes low or is dropping like a rock, you may need to use the HC. But managing the curve with food means LC food at regular, consistent feeding times designed best to work with HIS curve.
Click to expand...

Excellent. I just upped his dose this morning back to 0.50u. I'm going to try this dose with the spread out eating schedule for a few days. If he keeps on tanking I'll alter his food to a higher carb option.

I might end up giving the TJ Turkey and Giblets a try or perhaps Friskies classic pate Turkey and Giblets Dinner seems like something that he would like and it has 8% calories from carbs which is slightly less than the TJ.

As for best nutrition for the buck ( believe these are similar in price-haven't checked Trader Joe's yet), what do you guys think TJ Turkey and Giblets vs. Friskies Turkey and Giblets?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top