12/4 Nico amps 90,+2= 88,+4=66,+7=84, pmps-97,+3=77,+4=73

Tyleete

Tyleete

Member Since 2025
Yesterday's hell
I'm just going to post Relion numbers for now. I'll have to rework a ss to make that work. But as you can see, I got little sleep and it's not happening this morning.
So Relion=90, pet =123, token dose.
Couldn't get enough blood for pet after the Relion at +2, so it's just the 88.:)
But still refusing to eat anything but his treats. Even though he acts interested
 
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He still likes his treats! He ate a few kibbles of Young Again Zero LID. Not much, but it might help give him a little protein. I was desperate.
I still haven't gotten all this down yet, and was feeding him around 2-2.5tsp if food each time I tested and he was hypo numbers last night. :( So even though he acts interested, I think he's probably either stuffed or upset belly.
But with a decrease of only 2 this morning, I feel safe for him not to eat at least and only 1u.
I think I might actually drop him down further than suggested tonight. Neither of us can take him being in constant hypo numbers, and the 0.25 shaved aren't cutting it.😭 I really don't know what's going on with him. Joys!
But he NEEDS to get better, so I can tend to my other cats already. I've got a diabetic that went into remission years ago, that's always had faster breathing and large pupils. It is dark in my home much of the time and they do retracting light. But the 2 together worry me and she needs some tests to check for heart disease and I need to research and get a blood pressure machine for cats. AND! I had 1 cat diagnosed with small cell lymphoma gi back in October, and another has the same symptoms so I think she may have cancer, and need testing. But I can't even leave the house due to his numbers!:(
Sorry. I don't get out a lot and rant. Happy Thursday! It's supposed to snow tomorrow!
 
Tyleete said:
He still likes his treats! He ate a few kibbles of Young Again Zero LID. Not much, but it might help give him a little protein. I was desperate.
I still haven't gotten all this down yet, and was feeding him around 2-2.5tsp if food each time I tested and he was hypo numbers last night. :( So even though he acts interested, I think he's probably either stuffed or upset belly.
But with a decrease of only 2 this morning, I feel safe for him not to eat at least and only 1u.
I think I might actually drop him down further than suggested tonight. Neither of us can take him being in constant hypo numbers, and the 0.25 shaved aren't cutting it.😭 I really don't know what's going on with him. Joys!
But he NEEDS to get better, so I can tend to my other cats already. I've got a diabetic that went into remission years ago, that's always had faster breathing and large pupils. It is dark in my home much of the time and they do retracting light. But the 2 together worry me and she needs some tests to check for heart disease and I need to research and get a blood pressure machine for cats. AND! I had 1 cat diagnosed with small cell lymphoma gi back in October, and another has the same symptoms so I think she may have cancer, and need testing. But I can't even leave the house due to his numbers!:(
Sorry. I don't get out a lot and rant. Happy Thursday! It's supposed to snow tomorrow!
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You sure have your hands full with all of your kitties :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:

As for dosing (I am not qualified to give dosing advice) but here's my observations. Since there are skipped shots and changes in doses frequently (no judgment and I understand why due to the steep dips etc) the depot gets all wonky. And we don't know what dose is a good dose for Nico.

Hopefully you will be able to find a dose that will keep him in good numbers and you can shoot every 12 hours safely. That's the goal.

Also, maybe try feeding less food each time you need to bump him up (try a teaspoon each time and see if that works so as not to fill him up too much).

Are you giving regular snacks each cycle to try to "feed the curve"? For example I give a few teaspoons (reserved from Ivy's main meal) at +1, +2 and +3 of her Low carb LC food to try to soften the blow of the insulin onset so she doesn't dive. If I see her really diving early in a cycle I may increase the carbs of those snacks if needed.

I hope this helps!

Be safe Nico!! 🌊🏄‍♂️:bighug:
 
Good meowning
He's having a very nice cycle. I'd be very happy to see those numbers, although I realize for someone new, like yourself, these could be scary.
Take Staci's advice and see if you can feed less to keep him surfing safely. Ultimately thats the goal.
Good luck and happy Thursday
🙋🏻‍♀️🐾🐱✨️🏄🏻💕
 
Staci & Ivy said:
You sure have your hands full with all of your kitties :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:

As for dosing (I am not qualified to give dosing advice) but here's my observations. Since there are skipped shots and changes in doses frequently (no judgment and I understand why due to the steep dips etc) the depot gets all wonky. And we don't know what dose is a good dose for Nico.

Hopefully you will be able to find a dose that will keep him in good numbers and you can shoot every 12 hours safely. That's the goal.

Also, maybe try feeding less food each time you need to bump him up (try a teaspoon each time and see if that works so as not to fill him up too much).

Are you giving regular snacks each cycle to try to "feed the curve"? For example I give a few teaspoons (reserved from Ivy's main meal) at +1, +2 and +3 of her Low carb LC food to try to soften the blow of the insulin onset so she doesn't dive. If I see her really diving early in a cycle I may increase the carbs of those snacks if needed.

I hope this helps!

Be safe Nico!! 🌊🏄‍♂️:bighug:
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Yes, Wendy reminded me last night to not feed too much at once. All this time I've given him a 7am feeding them shot, then feed again at +2 & +4. That was suggested to me back in his first PZ month. I don't really know to do anything different. But I could certainly to your method. You said those 1tsp of lc food come out of his daily amount?
Karolina & Nestle said:
Good meowning
He's having a very nice cycle. I'd be very happy to see those numbers, although I realize for someone new, like yourself, these could be scary.
Take Staci's advice and see if you can feed less to keep him surfing safely. Ultimately thats the goal.
Good luck and happy Thursday
🙋🏻‍♀️🐾🐱✨️🏄🏻💕
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Oh heavens no, they're great! But last night he had me up til 3:30am with hypo numbers, and this morning he only received a token dose.
I agree, that would be ideal numbers. If only I could keep them here.😕
 
**Question**
My little guy is (again after a botched night) not wanting to eat anything. EXCEPT his 1 treats. Can someone take a look at these and tell me if I should just be feeding him this until he wants to eat right again? It's from a very unique cat food that I trust. Or will this make him no longer want to eat the other food, like he did when I had to start feeding him mc & hc pate?
Thank you!
 
Tyleete said:
But I could certainly to your method. You said those 1tsp of lc food come out of his daily amount?
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Yes I feed about 1.5 tablespoons of food at +1, 2, and +3 (taken from his am or pm meal). If Nico requires more food if his cycle is active and diving then just use additional food (not from his meals) but use a teaspoon of LC to see if that is enough to keep him steady.
But, if he's really diving hard and you can't keep him from going into limes, then you may need either medium or high carbs, depending on his carb sensitivity.

Some cats will surf on low carbs only. Other need medium or HC to bring them up a bit if they are diving into the lime numbers.
 
Staci & Ivy said:
Yes I feed about 1.5 tablespoons of food at +1, 2, and +3 (taken from his am or pm meal). If Nico requires more food if his cycle is active and diving then just use additional food (not from his meals) but use a teaspoon of LC to see if that is enough to keep him steady.
But, if he's really diving hard and you can't keep him from going into limes, then you may need either medium or high carbs, depending on his carb sensitivity.

Some cats will surf on low carbs only. Other need medium or HC to bring them up a bit if they are diving into the lime numbers.
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From looking at those 2 nights (30th and then last night I think), I kept feeding him hc and mc food, but it didn't seem to do a thing. Do you agree? I need to know if food is/can help him at all, or instead of getting numbers in the 30's or 40's, he would have been in teens and 20's?😞
 
I'm cautiously saying this because I'm quite confused by the two meter approach you've been following, but if you are going to switch to the human meter, the numbers are different, specifically on the greens and limes, so I think you'll need to change the number line. See Jude's sheet--scan up to the top of this year, and you'll see where I added the new line of numbers for the human meter but left the older numbers in place to show that prior to the change, I was using different numbers as the reference points in dosing, etc.

Please check with @Bandit's Mom or Wendy about this, though. I don't want to lead you astray.
 
Tyleete said:
From looking at those 2 nights (30th and then last night I think), I kept feeding him hc and mc food, but it didn't seem to do a thing. Do you agree? I need to know if food is/can help him at all, or instead of getting numbers in the 30's or 40's, he would have been in teens and 20's?😞
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Were those numbers last night on the Pet Test or Relion meter? Hard to know how what to say, depends on the meter.

But you certainly don't want him going lower than 40 on any meter.
 
What are you doing to stimulate his appetite? I know you have Mirataz. Is that working? What about Ondansetron? Are you using a topper on the food?
 
Staci & Ivy said:
Were those numbers last night on the Pet Test or Relion meter? Hard to know how what to say, depends on the meter.

But you certainly don't want him going lower than 40 on any meter.
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What you see in the color chart above the Relion line are from my pet meter. But if you look in the comments section, whenever I was able to get the Relion reading as well, I wrote it in they're.
Last night he even dipped into the 30's. It's why I said I don't think the food is moving him up in numbers. I even used karo twice in his food. :(
Mary & Jude said:
What are you doing to stimulate his appetite? I know you have Mirataz. Is that working? What about Ondansetron? Are you using a topper on the food?
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I hadn't used the Mirataz yet today as I figured his stomach was just upset& I didn't want to make him worse. You think I should anyhow? Tried toppers, didn't work. Did you see the link for the high protein, less than 1% carb treats? I've given him a little of that every time I test him
 
Mary is right, either Bhooma or a couple other folks can help you switch to the Relion meter. And thank you for doing that.

The YA treats don't look like anything special. Why not get just pure freeze dried meat treats? Or babyfood, or ..... When Neko was feeling off, a friend from FDMB made her a batch of chicken, but cooked and pureed, adding the premix to make it a complete meal. It was very creamy, almost like babyfood. She loved it! And it was a great backup food when Neko wasn't doing well. I could also syringe it when necessary. Getting a syringe or two of food in often "primes the pump" and gets them eating. Maybe the empty tummy makes them feel worse.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Mary is right, either Bhooma or a couple other folks can help you switch to the Relion meter. And thank you for doing that.

The YA treats don't look like anything special. Why not get just pure freeze dried meat treats? Or babyfood, or ..... When Neko was feeling off, a friend from FDMB made her a batch of chicken, but cooked and pureed, adding the premix to make it a complete meal. It was very creamy, almost like babyfood. She loved it! And it was a great backup food when Neko wasn't doing well. I could also syringe it when necessary. Getting a syringe or two of food in often "primes the pump" and gets them eating. Maybe the empty tummy makes them feel worse.
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I figured this would just be easier. Regan had suggested it.
Last time we went through this, just a couple days ago, nothing worked. Toppers, baby food, house pureed broth. But the Mirataz did help. I just wasn't sure if I should give his stomach time to relax.
God I'm so afraid of going through this all again tonight or tomorrow. :(
 
After all he ate the times he was low, I'm thinking your boy isn't very carb sensitive...??? Usually, I would think, HC, especially with a bit of karo mixed in would bring him up and help him smooth out. Nico doesn't seem to be affected by the amount of carbs he's getting into him. Or maybe I'm wrong about that, please correct me if so...
 
Monster's Mom said:
After all he ate the times he was low, I'm thinking your boy isn't very carb sensitive...??? Usually, I would think, HC, especially with a bit of karo mixed in would bring him up and help him smooth out. Nico doesn't seem to be affected by the amount of carbs he's getting into him. Or maybe I'm wrong about that, please correct me if so...
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No. After consistently fighting to get him to eat hc both nights he stayed in the lime, I agree. I just don't know what a person is supposed to do if food has no effect or raises.
And guess what?!? Got a nudge to test and try to feed m again. Numbers are fine. But he ate half a can of FF! I'm so happy! I'll wait 45-60 min befits giving him a little more perhaps.
 
Oh that's good! He's past his nadir now right? That's when it seems, to me, he starts to get better... higher numbers, more appetite.... is his nadir still +4?
 
Monster's Mom said:
Oh that's good! He's past his nadir now right? That's when it seems, to me, he starts to get better... higher numbers, more appetite.... is his nadir still +4?
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I'd like to say Yes? But he's so out of whack. I don't think he's following any of the norms, especially with the food. In the daytime, I think that +4 is right, not so sure about the evening. This cat. Not looking forward to what comes.:(
 
Mary & Jude said:
I'm cautiously saying this because I'm quite confused by the two meter approach you've been following, but if you are going to switch to the human meter, the numbers are different, specifically on the greens and limes, so I think you'll need to change the number line. See Jude's sheet--scan up to the top of this year, and you'll see where I added the new line of numbers for the human meter but left the older numbers in place to show that prior to the change, I was using different numbers as the reference points in dosing, etc.

Please check with @Bandit's Mom or Wendy about this, though. I don't want to lead you astray.
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So you changed TO the alphatrak? Can I ask why? I just had a friend say, why don't you just change and make it easier on those trying to read the sheet. So I did. I just bought an AT3, but going to send it back. Good ole Chewy. Hope they don't take that 8% back away from the site.
Anyhow! I have a question. My son taught me how to add lines. But how do you do the values? Example of what I mean:
AT3 55 is in the lime. While the human meter is dark green.
Is there a way to switch that so it automatically goes to the correct color for the human meter now?
THANK YOU!
 
Tyleete said:
So you changed TO the alphatrak? Can I ask why? I just had a friend say, why don't you just change and make it easier on those trying to read the sheet. So I did. I just bought an AT3, but going to send it back. Good ole Chewy. Hope they don't take that 8% back away from the site.
Anyhow! I have a question. My son taught me how to add lines. But how do you do the values? Example of what I mean:
AT3 55 is in the lime. While the human meter is dark green.
Is there a way to switch that so it automatically goes to the correct color for the human meter now?
THANK YOU!
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I switched from AT to Relion. The AT test strips were too expensive for me.

I suggest checking with Bhooma on the spreadsheet cell formatting, or maybe @Lauren & Esse might know? Sorry.
 
Sorry, was out of town visiting my mother - it involves ferries and driving so not able to get on.

I think you were fine going with 1.0 units - it will drain the depot even more. Last night he also started in the 90's, but had a lot higher depot in play. Hoping for a quiet night, you need it. :bighug:
 
tiffmaxee said:
Sorry. Just seeing this. I’m wondering if a certain cat might be rushing down the dosing scale. Or is it the depot? I hope you have a quiet evening.
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What does that mean? Rushing down the dosing scale? Sorry, I hadn't heard that term before.
I'm hoping I didn't do any damage. I couldn't tenderness reading anything against back to back token doses. I'm not at concerned about my lack of sleep. I worry about his constant limes. I can't remember who, but someone just yesterday I think, said too many limes will tend to make them go back to that easy.
I am trying what Staci suggested. In feeding him about 1.5 tap of food at his +1,+2, & +3 to try and help.
Feeling so far out of my league with this little guy.
And I just didn't want anyone upset with my actions. Had to pretty much guess at what to do is all.
 
I hope the depot drains and you have a calm night.

Going down the dosing ladder means Nico may be needing less insulin. Hoping his pancreas is healing. They would be the best possible situation 🥰
 
It means he could be regulating. It’s a good thing! After regulation comes diet controlled for some. Sometimes a cat just clicks and doesn’t follow the rule book. What Staci suggested is referred to as feeding the curve . I did that with Max. I fed small amounts +2+3 +4 if he seemed to be low and I wanted to slow him down.

I’m not understanding this comment:

too many limes will tend to make them go back to that easy.​

 
tiffmaxee said:
It means he could be regulating. It’s a good thing! After regulation comes diet controlled for some. Sometimes a cat just clicks and doesn’t follow the rule book. What Staci suggested is referred to as feeding the curve . I did that with Max. I fed small amounts +2+3 +4 if he seemed to be low and I wanted to slow him down.

I’m not understanding this comment:

too many limes will tend to make them go back to that easy.​

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Someone the other day showed a research piece that said if your cat goes in to hypo too many times, he will tend to go that way more often in the future.
He was on only fresh pork and chicken before his first crash. But apparently that doesn't compare to fancy feast pates. :( So far I can't get him to go back to eating healthy stuff. But that's what he's currently eating. Those classic pares.
I was thinking of just dropping him to 2 tomorrow if his numbers are good. He was supposed to go to 2.5 before this disaster. I'm just so afraid one of these times his hypo numbers will either lead us to the ER (which is over 30min away), or just flat out kill him.
 
You are doing an awesome job, Nico isn't making it easy for you. Weeks of high numbers, then it's like the light switch turned on. That can be a very hard time on caregivers. Going conservative on dose is a good idea.
 
I second what Wendy said. You won’t end up at the ER due to a hypo because you have the tools to keep him safe. You test, have hc and karo. Right now fancy feast is fine. I know what you mean about healthy food. I feed much like you with my current girls. Max ate mostly fancy feast once diabetic. He liked high carb canned when I had to get him off dry which he preferred most of his life. Fortunately he switched to pate when diabetic and ate it. He lived to be overn19. My girls have been on raw and now home cooked since a year old and with their rotten immune systems I don’t will get close to that sadly.
 
tiffmaxee said:
It means he could be regulating. It’s a good thing! After regulation comes diet controlled for some. Sometimes a cat just clicks and doesn’t follow the rule book. What Staci suggested is referred to as feeding the curve . I did that with Max. I fed small amounts +2+3 +4 if he seemed to be low and I wanted to slow him down.

I’m not understanding this comment:

too many limes will tend to make them go back to that easy.​

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I think she’s referring to an academic article I mentioned, which is a fairly recent piece of research by Chen Gilor, DVM (on faculty at the University of FL), who argues that frequent drops below 50 in diabetic cats tend to induce future hypo episodes (he was arguing against the symogi theory). He writes, “Episodes of subclinical IIH [insulin induced hypoglycemia] are not benign: they lower the glycemic threshold for sympathoadrenal responses and increase the risk of future severe hypoglycemic crises.” He measures a hypoglycemic episode at below 50. He also argues strongly for cats with FD to utilize CGMs because he thinks many hypo episodes are missed when CGMs aren’t being used. I’m not sure, though, how many cats in his study were tested daily by caregivers.
 
Mary & Jude said:
I think she’s referring to an academic article I mentioned, which is a fairly recent piece of research by Chen Gilor, DVM (on faculty at the University of FL), who argues that frequent drops below 50 in diabetic cats tend to induce future hypo episodes (he was arguing against the symogi theory). He writes, “Episodes of subclinical IIH [insulin induced hypoglycemia] are not benign: they lower the glycemic threshold for sympathoadrenal responses and increase the risk of future severe hypoglycemic crises.” He measures a hypoglycemic episode at below 50. He also argues strongly for cats with FD to utilize CGMs because he thinks many hypo episodes are missed when CGMs aren’t being used. I’m not sure, though, how many cats in his study were tested daily by caregivers.
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Interesting. I think that makes sense if a cat has a symptomatic hypo. They become more sensitive to insulin. We have seen that here. That’s different from low numbers. Many cats here hit lime and are fine and not hyper sensitive to insulin.
 
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