12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY ..UPDATE +11.5 271??.

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MikeysMom

MikeysMom

Member Since 2011
Today seems to be better than last night for Mikey after a reduced dose to .75U (or as close as I could get; still learning the intricacies of the draw! How some of you guys do .2, I have no idea!) He's in the green with a little spike after his morning snack. Hopefully we can settle in on a dosage so I can gather better data over the next few weeks.

Thanks again to everyone who offered us support last night. This is our first post over here, and I hope I included all the necessary info!

Mikey had some serious fun last night and this morning because Mom broke down and bought a new laser pointer. Mikey had lots of fun fighting over the dot with his buddy Jesse James. Does vigorous play affect BG much? Are there times that are better to play with him than others?
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey AMPS 289; +2 142; +4 54; +5 77

Playing and exercises used to bring Binks' bg down...

very nice numbers!!!

celi
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey AMPS 289; +2 142; +4 54; +5 77

Welcome to LL! Sorry I missed you earlier. Mikey's numbers are looking great. This could still be the shed draining, but looking goooooooood! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Post again if he starts to go back down, but this is a much better slide than last night. Get a +11 if you can to see which direction things are going at preshot.

Well, you burn energy when you exercise and that should use up more of the blood sugars as long as it can get into the cells. I say play whenever he wants to play, as long as it isn't 3:00am! :lol: :lol:

The subject line looks great, keeping it updated helps us to see at a glance kitties that may need help. :-D
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey AMPS 289; +2 142; +4 54; +5 77

Welcome to Lantus Land!!

I don't know if you saw the photos of the syringes in the New to the Group sticky.Those helped me to have a visual on what the 0.25 and 0.75 increments looked like. I try to line the syringe plunger up so I can be consistent.

Please let us know if you have questions. There's a lot of information to try to wrap your head around. In fact, if you're not overwhelmed, you're probably doing something wrong (or you're an endocrinologist).
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey AMPS 289; +2 142; +4 54; +5 77...+10 206; +11

Thanks! Yes, there is still a lot to learn. We were at 206 at +10 and 190 at +11...any ideas about why the small drop? (The rest of today's curve is on his SS).

I think that tonight after injection we'll test a couple times and tomorrow do a few spot checks, then run another full curve at .75 U on Tuesday. We see the vet on Wed for a follow-up.

At some point, we'll drop to spot checks and a curve weekly. I'm in the running for a job that would have me not working at home, and traveling for 2-3 days a week, 30 weeks or so a year, and he won't be able to have as many spot checks then. Of course, he'll have been on insulin for a couple of months if it happens, so hopefully his numbers won't be so funky as they are now.

Obviously, a week isn't that long to be on insulin, but I think he looks better and is acting much more normal...I have to keep reminding myself that it's baby steps!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey AMPS 289; ...+10 206; +11 190; PMPS 180

Still curious about the slight drop PMPS. He was at 180, which is the lowest the vet said to inject, so I (fearfully)injected and will monitor tonight as needed.

If anyone has a minute to take a look at his SS and that a crack at what these numbers mean, thank you in advance!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey .+10 206; +11 190; PMPS 180??

I'm not experienced enough to give advice, but keep in mind there can be a 20% meter variance between readings. It's sort of a built in margin of error. So a slight rise or fall may reflect nothing at all. Just one more thing to keep us confused!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey .+10 206; +11 190; PMPS 180??

Ok....nice day for Mikey!!!! Mikey is actually pretty flat from +10 to PMPS with meter variance but please read below.

Lantus is known for getting a second dip. That is what Mikey did today. He came down, had a great nadir, came back up to 206, then took a nice little and very easy second dip :-D I'm glad you shot. And this is a great question.

It's very important, since we don't know ALOT yet about Mikey's cycles, if you can get a +1 and +2 tonight. I know you have a crazy busy schedule but since it is Sunday, I hope that you are able to do that and we can help you
interpret what it means and what the cycle is likely to be like.

What we are looking for is to see if Mikey gets a food spike at +1 (you fed him at PMPS, right?) and then that his +2 is close to his PS number. If it is alot lower, then we know there is a good chance that Mikey might
have an active cycle.

Does that help?? Please let me know how I can help. And we're so glad you are here!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey .+10 206; +11 190; PMPS 180??

welcome to Lantus Land!

Marje has given good advice. The nice thing about testing is that it gives you control over the numbers. By shooting lower and testing in the cycles when you ARE home, it gives you the information you'll need to make decisions when you are not home. Nice shooting!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey .+10 206; +11 190; PMPS 180??

I didn't see your message in time to get a +1, but I will get a +2 in a little while.

I don't know about the second dip, that's good to know!

One question, though...what do you mean by "active cycle?" and is it a bad thing?
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey .+10 206; +11 190; PMPS 180??

One question, though...what do you mean by "active cycle?" and is it a bad thing?
Click to expand...

Don't mean to scare you :-D Here is what a "typical" lantus curve looks like but for most of our cats, they didn't read this :lol:

Example of a typical Lantus curve:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.
Click to expand...

If that +2 is a lot lower than your PS, then you want to be sure you do some extra testing in case Mikey decides to come down. And he might not come down much at all but then you get an idea of his cycles.

No, an active cycle is not a bad one...it's just one you need to keep an eye on. :-D

No problem that you didn't get the +1. Just post your +2 and we'll see what it is!! Great job!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey .+10 206; +11 190; PMPS 180??

I am so tired and so frustrated. Again, Mike is dropping crazy low SO early. He was at 50 at PM +2. I gave some dry food with a bit of Karo (I'm out of HC canned) and will keep testing. I just don't know how long I can do this. I'm going through test strips like water except I can afford water. I haven't slept more than 2 hours in two days. I'm so exhausted. I lost my temper and yelled at Mikey when he didn't deserve it because I'm so tired. I'm terrified to shoot him at all at this point. What am i doing wrong?
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey .+10 206; +11 190; PMPS 180??

Ok...just breathe....it's ok. Did you retest to make sure it was accurate? If not, it's ok but when you get a number like that, it's always good to retest.

Please retest him 20 mins after you gave him the karo.

One thing about dry food...it takes a long time for the carbs in it to kick in and then it takes a long time to get them out of his sytem. You are better putting karo in his regular canned food.

He's safe at 50 and the karo will bring him up but we need to keep testing until we know he's safe. So...20 mins...I'll be here.

It's ok...we've all been here. We'll help you.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

I know you were getting help in Health last night from some of our folks and I am positive I read they told you that you missed a dose reduction with that 34.

So when you gave him another dose at 1u, which was too much insulin for him, he came down last night and today. Here's the thing about lantus.....a dose can carry over 2-3 cycles and I believe
that is what you are seeing. His insulin depot is still full. Just because you reduced the dose this morning doesn't mean it will take effect immediately. He seems to have a very full insulin
shed right now.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

Hang in there...

i yelled at Binks a few times when I was stressed by him dropping low...
but I think he knew it was just me being scared...
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

I did reduce his dose to .75 as of this morning. His numbers were very good today, even with that early drop. Should I not have injected him tonight? How do I know?
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

At +2.5 he's holding at 51. I gave him a teaspoon or so of wet food with a drop more of Karo, and will keep testing.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

I hope you saw my post about why this is happening and it's ok.....when Gracie was on lantus...she always had pretty active cycles when I reduced her dose until her shed drained a bit.

Any time you are wondering if you should shoot, then don't feed him and post here. Someone will help you. There are options.

Please don't be frustrated. If you had posted, I would have recommended you shoot this and get a +1 and +2. Remember that he can feel your stress. The sugardance is not an easy one so just take a minute...don't worry.
We are here to help you deal with this.

Have you got another test number for me?
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

Do you have anyone who can go pick up some HC food with gravy like FF gravy lovers? The karo will wear off and I'd really like to see him come up some more
before he onsets.

After you test, just small amounts of food so he doesn't get full. That's why the gravy is so great...the carbs in the gravy bring them up without getting them too full.

ETA: Please retest in 20 mins from your last test and post. Thanks!!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

Unfortunately, I can't get anything tonight. I just had a breaking story come up at work that needed to be done a half hour ago as it is. Since that is my only pay, I just can't. Shouldn't the dry and/or the LC canned kick in as the Karo wears off. The +2.5 is the latest. I'll test again as soon as I file this story.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

I know this is unnerving to see these numbers early on. You're doing great and we're here to tell you that!

I think Marje is right -- you're probably seeing a bit of carry over (i.e., Mikey's shed was full and it can take a cycle or two for the shed to empty out.)

FWIW, I generally don't give Gabby HC food. It upsets her stomach. I add a few drops of Karo or honey to LC food.

Take a look at these instructions -- they are helpful to have on hand when it comes to managing low numbers.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

So it's fine...as Sienne said, the LC and karo will work. We just need to keep testing and feeding.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

mikey's mom - i'm running out the door but i wanted to stop and tell you that everyone is unnerved at the beginning. it gets better by the day. hang in there - you are surrounded by people who understand and will teach you. hugs!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

Are you able to get a check to see if the food brought the #s up?

If you have to work, please leave some LC with several drops of Karo mixed in and some of the kibble out. I don't ordinarily recommend dry but we don't have much info on Mikey yet. I want to make sure he's safe while you're busy.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

We'll get through tonight, but what about tomorrow morning? Should I reduce to .5? Should I skip if he's under 200 and inject .75 again tomorrow night? I really don't feel ready to hold shots til a later time, etc. Wouldn't that mean a schedule change, which I ultimately need to avoid?
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

Ok...first...what is his number right now? Did you retest yet?

Let's take it a step at a time and we'll answer your questions but we need to know where he is now.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

He's at 70 right now, so that's good. He's going up the last two tests, so I'll test him again at +4 and let you know. I feel guilty because I just want a little while where I'm not living my life literally around the next test. I have been for 24 hours straight and the better part of the last week. I've cancelled my plans for a day trip on Saturday and shopping Friday as well as my holiday plans because there's nobody to care for him if he's going to need to be tested all the time. I need a little peace and I feel terrible for that.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

I know you are busy working but I have to really suggest that you do not wait until +4 to test him for a couple reasons:

1. he is likely to onset shortly and when he does, his numbers might come back down

2. the karo is going to wear off....

We have all been in, and are still in, your shoes. It is overwhelming at first but it does get better in terms of you learning Mikey's patterns and how to deal with it.

We need to see what he is going to do this cycle before we worry about tomorrow, k?

Please, please retest him no more than 30 mins after his last test. And I would also recommend that if you did not give him more food after the last test, that you do so. A little.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

Mikey's MamaBean (sorry, I don't see your 'real' name),
BIG LOOOONG HUG.

I just want to share something with you....I've been trying to get KT to this point where Mikey is for literally months and he's never even got CLOSE! If you can keep going, I can possibly see you and Mikey doing the next OJT countdown in not too long. He's responding to the insulin wonderfully - yeah, a little too wonderfully sometimes but it's happening!!! I know you're totally exhausted and your brain needs a rest. Just know there are SO many of us watching with hope and a little envy.... :mrgreen:

Another hug,
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

Wow...Mikey is looking great, and you are doing a wonderful job! It really, truly does get easier. As others have said before, LantusLand is the best place you never wanted to be...tons of support and knowledge. We're all behind you and here to help!

Welcome aboard!

Amy (&Trixie)
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

The beginning of this dance is the toughest. You don't yet have enough info to know Mikey's patterns, you worry if numbers are too high, you freak if numbers are low, there's too much info and you can't wrap your head around it. Does that sound about right? We've all been there and we all understand.

Look at Gabby's numbers from today. I was out for a while this afternoon and went out to dinner. I'm fortunate in that I have great friends who are as devoted to their cats as I am to mine. And, it does get easier. In the beginning, if I saw a green number, I wouldn't sleep. I'd be up testing. I've gotten to know Gabby's patterns and I actually do sleep!! It will take a little while for you to be less hypervigilent and get comfortable. If it's any consolation, it means that you care a great deal about Mikey.

I would suggest that you lower his dose to 0.5u in the AM. (It's actually what I suggested yesterday.) Let's see if we can get things to ease up a bit so you don't make yourself frantic and you can begin to get a handle on all of the information.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

at +3.5 he's at 96. I'll update at +4. Hoping I can drop back to hourly at that point...his ears are so bruised and he cries when i just touch them.

ETA: My name is Amy. Thanks to you all for your help tonight!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

Ok. Great. Thank you.

Do you have any neosporin ointment with pain relief and are you alternating ears? The neosporin...just a dab..will help and you can wipe it off before the next time you test.

Please let us know that you saw Sienne's post to take his dose to .5u tomorrow, ok?

I'm going to go grab dinner and Sienne will stay with you. I'll check back in after dinner as she'll need to go to bed before too long.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

Thanks! I'll reduce to .5 tomorrow morning as long as his numbers are high enough to inject.

I don't have any neosporin, but will get some. I'm alternating ears, but both are a mass of bruises. I do have calendula and comfrey salve; can I use that?
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

i cna't answer the salve question...

but GREAT WORK, AMY!!!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

i don't know about the salves, but one thing that really helps prevent bruising is to apply a little bit of pressure after the poke to make sure the bleeding stops. then you don't have nearly as much bruising.

amy - nice to meet you! you're surrounded by people who will help you. one thing that i've learned is a lot of decisions about tomorrow get made after today happens . . . the great thing about Lantus Land is there is someone on nearly all the time around the clock if you need help. marjorie, ann & i are west coast and are often on til late Pacific Time, dyana is east coast and sometimes on before we get off. there are many other east coast early risers too. the west coast people will check the forum until 11:30pm or so to see if anyone needs anything.

for now you're doing great. we try not to overload people with too much information at first, because as you said, it's like a college course that you're trying to get in a very short time. as you need the information, someone will teach you. for now, you just got Low Numbers 101: give a little high carbs and retest in 20 minutes. (i'm not giving you directions, i'm saying that's the first lesson tonight.)
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

AMY! Good work girl!
Get the neo with pain relief - OINTMENT, not cream. Are those others you mentioned oil based? Anything oil (think vaseline) based should be fine. The cream mixtures cause the blood to soak into the hair rather than bead up. Also, try holding a really cold cottonball against the edges if he'll let you but don't push it if he says no. When you do poke, hold a gauze pad/cosmetic pad/paper towel on the poke for 20 sec or so. that will help them not bruise. A bruise is blood that's leaked UNDER the skin. Holding it lets it clot rather than 'leak'. Makes less 'sore' also...

HUGS AMY!!!!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

If you have a minute, can you update your subject line with Mikey's test info. There are a couple of condos I'm keeping an eye on and it's much easier for me to see if you've updated if the numbers are in the subject line. (Thanks!)
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

Mikey's numbers are definitely more normal now. Well, actually, a little above normal...sigh. at +4 he's at 136. I'm going to give us both a break and retest at +5 (midnight Eastern). If he's still holding steady, I'm going to feed him some of his regular food and try and get a little sleep.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

just fyi - it won't be like this every night! promise! when you have a night like this the first week all you can think is "i can't do this!" but it really isn't like this every night.

i set my cell phone alarm and get up, test, reset the alarm and go back to sleep. just like having a baby, if you've ever had one.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

157 at +5. I gave Mikey a snack and we're both going to get some sleep. Tomorrow morning, I'll try a .5 dose and see how that goes.

This has been the last two nights now; I hope it gets better soon. I need sleep. I need to leave the house for more than an hour at a time. Mikey's ears hurt. The 50 strips that I counted on to last 10 days or so have lasted four. I don't know when I have another paycheck coming. So far, the estimated $40 a month has been more like $100 in the last week, not counting the cost of the insulin or vet. Ouch!

I set the alarm, too. The problem is, by the time I fall asleep again, it's 10 minutes before the next one.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

ok, i think you're likely ok for now. get some sleep - if you can, test & post 1/2 hr before your shot time if there's any question of whether or not you have a high enough number to shoot.

truly, none of us could do this night after night. it's like baptism by fire - you're getting it all at once, but it gets easier.

sleep well!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

OK, at +6 we're at 238. I will try to post before my 7 am shot tomorrow, but if not, will definitely cut to .5U and see.

Thank you again for the support. It means a lot; i don't get much from anyone else.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

:YMHUG: i know what you mean. we're all a bunch of crazy cat people who love our cats. at least i am!
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

You're welcome. He should be safe at that number...dry food probably kicked in plus perhaps the bounce.

Hope you get some rest. There should be folks on in the morning....why don't you post a +11 or +11.5 if possible so it doesn't stall your shot time if unnecessary?

I wouldn't be surprised if he's high in the morning.
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

I'll try. What's another hour of sleep anyway?
 
Re: 12/4 Mikey PMPS 180; +2 50...WHY is this happening?

OK, at +11.5, Mikey is at 271. I'll do another test at AMPS, but thinking dropping to .5U and injecting is the best bet for this morning?
 
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