12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+4-103,+8-128,PMPS-178,+3-214

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donaleen and Ozy

donaleen and Ozy

Member Since 2013
previous http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=110860

Ozy is at 98 at PM+11. This would not have phased me with Lantus. But, not sure what to think with Levemir and its very different nadirs. I suspect he is at or near his nadir.

He has also dropped a hundred points in the last two hours after cruising most of the night at about 200.

I am not generally a fan of stalling and throwing everything off and I hate to complicate things further now. However, I wouldn't mind changing his schedule a bit to work better with Levemir's very different cycle behavior.

Advice please.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105

Did you shoot already? I can't tell since you have the 105 as his AMPS.

If you haven't shot, what would you want to change his schedule to?

My thought is that if you haven't shot, I'd like you to shoot now and we can figure out a way to adjust his schedule. He is likely nadiring but I don't want you to lose any chance for overlap or carryover by delaying a shot.

Do you feel comfortable shooting now if you haven't? I would get a +1.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105

Thanks, Marje. Have not shot. Ready to shoot.

I normally post his pre-shot number and his food at about 15 minutes before and then post the units just after I shoot. Is that not how others do it?

Not changing his schedule now. But I think eventually I will. Thanks for the advice.

Very happy to see these numbers. I wish my new Terumo syringes were already here. My Walgreen's syringes are not very good at tiny measurements (getting ready for R). And, to any of you reading, they are quite a bit cheaper than Walgreens.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105

If you haven't shot and/or are stalling, then we usually show it on the subject line as +12 or +12.5 or wherever he is since the last shot in hours. Once you put "AMPS", we assume you've shot.

I'm not sure how anyone else does it, but I don't usually do my SS until after I've shot.

I would like you to go ahead and shoot now, if you haven't and then let us know what kind of schedule you'd like to be on so we can help you. Sound good?
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105

I did shoot. Thanks. We shot right on time.

As for schedule, what I eventually want to do is have his nadir period be at times when I am up. I am thinking of changing his shot time to 10 and 10 instead of 8 and 8. One issue I see with that later time is I am in the Pacific time zone and it may be a quiet time for the board. I would like to have my advice givers awake and around when it is time to shoot.

In any case, not ready to do anything now.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105

Great!!!! Please be sure to get a +1 because if he bounces skyhigh, this might be the time to try some R. I sent a message to Sandy to get her thoughts as well.

Would you be up for shooting R if he goes up really fast? Can you be there to monitor?
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105

:RAHCAT
very nice :cool:

Unless there is a compelling reason, I recommend not making a timing/schedule change right now. Looks like the lev is gaining some traction here :-D
This is great!

Go Ozy!
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105

Thanks. Oh, yes, I will be close by his side even if we don't do any R. Lots of pokes today.

So happy to see you, Sandy. I won't be doing any changes.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119

donaleen

Can you do a +2 as well please? What we are looking for is that super fast rise from a bounce. When we see it, we'd like you to shoot 0.1u R.

You always want to shoot R in the scruff. Shooting it anywhere else could result in too fast absorption so we want it in the location where the absorption is likely to be the slowest. You also want to shoot in a different t scruff location than you shot the lev this morning...see if you can shoot it on the opposite side of the scruff and a few inches away. Use your U100 syringes..the same you use for levemir/Lantus.

Once you shoot the R (when we give the go ahead), you will test every single hour for five hours. Ok? The R duration is four hours and we want to see if he stays down the fifth hour or heads back up. I'm hoping he doesn't start up until after +4 but we will see.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119

thanks got it. i will test every hour.

Our syringes get about 8 drops per unit. We will do the best we can with them. Our Teromu's should come tomorrow. Oops... scratch that. It was 8 drops of WATER. John only gets 4 drops per unit with the R insulin.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119

That doesn't sound right. ...4 drops to a unit sounds like big drops and that would be a lot of R.

Are you using calipers? If you are, I'd measure it the same. For example, I get 1.5 mm to the unit. So 0.1u of R is 0.15 mm on my calipers.

And don't shoot the R until we give the word :-D we are looking for a very fast rise.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123

Not shooting until you say.

What John did was load a unit of R and then squeezed it out and he only got 4 drops. Then he loaded half a unit of R and squeezed one out, leaving a little less than a quarter unit.

John tried calipers before. He is a wood worker and I call him Mr. 64th of an inch because he is very precise. However, he did not find the calipers helped him in any way with these syringes.

When Julie was here, I put her to work with a syringe. I don't think she had very good luck either.

Is there another method?

John says we have a little drop loaded. The least we can manage with these syringes.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123

If you look at the "New to the group" sticky, it has a photo of 0.1u. Does yours look like that as closely as possible?

I am :-D to see that +2! Work it Ozy!!
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123

I was just thinking, though, if John is getting 4 drops in a unit, then each of his drops is 0.25u. Which is too much R for the first go round. Eight drops would be closer to 0.1u.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123

Well should we hold off until the other syringes come? The new syringes should be here tomorrow. The bounce may have started by then. But maybe not. Sometimes he doesn't bounce right away, sometimes not for a whole cycle or two, though he certainly did bounce fast this last time. I think when he goes green it takes longer for the bounce to start.

Anyway, I think I could survive another bounce if you think it is best to wait. On the other hand, not good to let those antibodies have too much time.

Calling the vet to see what they have...
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123

If he bounces, we prefer to not wait just because of those antibodies. The biggest thing is to just be sure it's a tiny dose and if you say it looks like the picture, then it should be ok.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123

well well well! exciting things in Ozyland this morning!

I could only get 4 drops per unit from these syringes as well. they have a fat barrel and you can't compare the pics on the NTG sticky to these. the "length" of 1u was extremely short. Wish I still had some Terumos to get you in the meantime but i gave them all away.

great to see Ozy surfing in these wonderful numbers like this. keep it up, little buddy! cat_pet_icon

Are you checking again at +3?
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123

I think we'd want to see a higher number before you try the 0.25R, though, Donaleen. So don't shoot quite yet! :-D
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123

I was on the phone to the vet... they don't have any but they suggested calling a local pharmacy... I will do that now.

Still holding in good numbers. There HAVE been times when we get 2 or more good cycles before the bounce happens. Maybe we will be lucky.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123

Fred Meyer Pharmacy will sell individual syringes, but they don't have Terumos. I actually got them initially from my vet, so you could try another vet practice and see. Don't know if they'd sell if you're not one of their clients, though. you could be a drug addict, for all they know.

The ones I got from Freddy's were marked with 0.5u markings, but i don't recall what brand. I just used them while waiting for my order to arrive also.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118

Well, mine are marked with .5 units. But they still aren't good, as you experienced.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118

yuppers. but i'm loving his hanging in the teens-ish this morning. Maybe you'll get a surprise delivery from ADW before he starts his bounce! You've probably rechecked the tracking for delivery already though.

oh - could you let Suzanne/Cobb know how much the iaa/acro testing cost you?
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118

I have checked the Fedex tracking number at least four times. I got the email from American Diabetets with the tracking number but Fedex isn't recognizing it yet.

As for cost of IAA and Acromegaly... I think MSU charged about eighty dollars (59 and 18, as I remember) but the vet added on some cost for taking the blood and sending it off, etc....my bill just days misclellaneous bloodwork $125. That may include an in house pancreatitis test they ran, not sure.

Is this an okay place to tell her? I think she is following this.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103

it's all good. he's moving slowly. thanks for all the testing today. you might have to give Ozy some treats for all the poking!
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118

awesome cycle, donaleen!

I was just thinking, though, if John is getting 4 drops in a unit, then each of his drops is 0.25u. Which is too much R for the first go round. Eight drops would be closer to 0.1u.
Click to expand...
I could only get 4 drops per unit from these syringes as well. they have a fat barrel and you can't compare the pics on the NTG sticky to these.
Click to expand...
just throwing another idea out there for consideration, ladies:
since there's some difficulty measuring 0.1u R with donaleen's syringes... what about drawing the R dose on the side of the zero mark line furthest from the needle? i think donaleen would be very close to measuring 0.1u... rather than her first R experience beginning at 0.25 unit?


just a thought...
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103

donaleen

Julie sent me a message about the syringes you are using. I was having a difficult time picturing them but after she described them, it does make me a little nervous to take any chance that he could get a "big" dose of R (e.g. 0.25u which might not be that big in the scheme of an IAA/acro cat but is possibly for the 1st shot) the first time. The reason we wanted to try a small dose is so we don't send him on a roller coaster.

Can you see how much insulin it would be if you tried Jill's method in relation to what you have drawn?

I'm hoping Ozy will just continue this fabulous cycle and you won't need to shoot R until the Terumo's arrive....as in TOMORROW :-D :-D :-D

eta: we are also coming up on a point where it might be too late to shoot it this cycle because your nadirs would potentially overlap. There are many variables to consider.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103

Here is another measuring possibility, donaleen. Do you recall how i showed you that you could push the plunger in all the way and while holding it in tightly, put the needle into the fluid, then release the plunger? That "inhaled" just a tiny amount of fluid.

Then when we pushed it out of the syringe, the resulting drop was very tiny.

Compared to the "draw up one unit and push out one drop at a time = 4 drops" method, I'd guess that the "inhaled" drop was perhaps 1/2 of the size of these drops. That would likely get us a dose of about 0.1u.

Does that make sense?

The barrel of the syringe is wide, Jill, so i'm not sure if she can really measure these tiny doses using the lines on the syringe.

Can you or John do a couple of comparisons with these methods? See what you think?
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103

Thanks, Jill.

Okay... I will try. I think the more experience we get playing with tiny amounts the better.

My guess is he will bounce tonight or tomorrow before the Fedex overnight shipment arrives. I ordered it on the weekend....

Okay, I believe I have one small drop loaded. I did it by expressing drops to the tip of the syringe until I got to the last drop and then pulling it back in.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103

Oh, I didn't see your message. I was busy typing. Will try that, too. But I am pretty confident that I do have a small drop.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103,+5-104

BEAUTIFUL cycle! Looks like Ozy might be liking the flatness than Lev can bring to some cats. :-D

How's he feeling today?
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103,+5-107

Thanks, Wendy. He was up this morning but is sleeping this afternoon. I wouldn't say he felt as good as he did yesterday afternoon, but he feels good enough to hang out on the sofa with us, he watched the birds a little this morning, he played a tiny bit with me, he bathed, he purred some. His appetite is pretty normal for when he is in good numbers. And he was very interested in his roast chicken treats (leftovers from our roast chicken last night).

I'd like to get another ketone test but he isn't cooperating there. Do you think I still need to?
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103,+5-107

wendy, marje and i are all thinking that it would be great to see what a "normal" lev cycle looks like on Ozy before we add R into the equation. This really is the first one - and what a wonderful cycle he's having. Sandy is out for the day but will check back in later.

How do you feel about waiting on the R so we can see the full cycle? we can predict he'll bounce from this - are you ok with at least letting it get started into a bounce before we intervene?
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103,+5-107

I am fine with waiting. I don't think he will bounce until tonight at the earliest, maybe even tomorrow. And it may be a slow gradual rise rather than a quick rise.

Look at what he was doing just before we switched from Lantus.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103,+5-107

Ozy sounds pretty relaxed today. As long as he still has his appetite and is in these good numbers, you are probably OK with letting him have privacy in the LB today. Roast chicken/turkey is a favorite here too. :lol:
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103,+5-107

Agree with Wendy, what a lovely lovely cycle today and may I add that you are in amazing hands with the ladies you have helping you. I couldn't have made it without them. I also agree that Ozy deserves some sort of yummy for being a good boy. Have a good night Donaleen.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103,+5-107

What do you think about letting him go until +7 for the next test? Just a little break......
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103,+5-107

No.. not letting him go until +7. He is a little more out of it than I would like him to be. I have certain things I do to check how he is. I rub his back in a special way to see if he purrs. I offer to get him chicken or other treats to see if he is interested and will get up for a favorite treat. Etc... anyway, he isn't passing some of his checks. So I am playing Nurse Ratchett.

He did pass this one: I carried him into the kitchen and got the chicken out of the refrigerator. He woke up, perked up, was anxious for that chicken. And he tested at 111.

Thanks Lauren (I think I got the name right).
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103,+5-107

I just meant on the testing. I didn't mean you had to ignore him for two hours ;-)

But you are with him so whatever you feel is best. I trust your judgement.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+1-119,+2-123,+3-118,+4-103,+6-111

Oh, I know you meant on the testing. But his behavior was making me need to test him, that is what I meant. And I know I was aggressive with his dose.

And I have an expected delivery time from Fedex of tomorrow by 3 pm.

Update AM+6.5: acting normal, eating, up and about, passing wellness checks

Update AM+7: Really nice and flat....
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+3-118,+4-103,+7-114,+8-128,+9-163

Hmmmm... creeping up and up. Not that high yet. I wonder if he will come down for PMPS? Pre shot seems to be his most common nadir these days.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+3-118,+4-103,+7-114,+8-128,+9-163

Some levemir cats get a second dip so we will get some data tonight as to whether he is one of them.
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+3-118,+4-103,+7-114,+8-128,+9-163

I see surfs up today in Ozyland! :cool:

Excellent data collection going on. . . :thumbup

so happy to see this :-D
 
Re: 12/30 Ozy AMPS-105,+4-103,+7-114,+8-128,+9-163,+10-149

Could be meter variance....could be a second dip.

I don't guess you'd let him go until PMPS to check him again would you? I hate to keep bugging you but I don't see a reason to check him again for the next two hours.
 
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