12/26 Todd AMPS 470, +6 530 PMPS 249, +6 1/2 285 (YAY!)

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Re: 12/26 Todd AMPS 470, +5 1/2 530

His +5 1/2 is up to 530, from his AMPS number of 470 this morning. He seems ok and I'm about to give him his sub-q.
 
Re: 12/26 Todd AMPS 470

Since posting in yesterday's condo, I've been thinking a lot about Todd and doing some reading on CKD. I wonder if you could fill me in a bit more on Todd's labs and medical history. It sounds like there are some medical issues that your vet is still scratching her head over.

  • First, did your vet get a sterile urine sample (the procedure is called a cytocentesis)? They use a needle inserted into the bladder to get urine. The sample is then cultured (culture and sensitivity -- a C & S) to see if there are bacteria present. This allows your vet to select the appropriate antibiotic that will target the bacteria present.
  • Was a complete urinalysis and complete blood panel done? It would help if you could share the values of a USG (urine specific gravity), BUN (blood urea nitrogen), phosphorus, potassium, and creatinine?
  • When your vet ran blood work, do you happen to know what the WBC (white blood count) was? This may be helpful to know in order to determine if an infection was present -- especially important if there was a kidney infection.
  • Did your vet send out a sample for an fPLI? This is a test for pancreatitis. Both a kidney infection and pancreatitis may have contributed to Todd's rapid weight loss.

There are several people here who are very well versed in looking at lab values and helping you to understand what they mean, especially in relation to Todd's diabetes. If you look at Gabby's SS, I have a separate tab for her lab values so if something is going on, I can have the folks here provide input. My vet will either send me home with a copy of her labs or e-mail a copy of them to me. I realize you may not have all of this on hand, but if your vet can send the info, it will help enormously. I tend to like to have copies so I can bring any information with me should there be a veterinary emergency and I'm at the ER vs. my vet's office.
 
Re: 12/26 Todd AMPS 470, +6 530

1) I know they have a few times since he first got sick in July and found no bacteria. I don't believe they did that two weeks ago when I brought him in. But I know they checked for ketones.

2) Yes, several times. However, the labs they did over the first week in December were in house checks, they only checked his BG, BUN and Creatinine. He will be going in this week and I have asked that they do the full blood panel and all because I want to see the whole picture.

3) The last full set of labs were done in early Nov, I believe. I think I posted it here on the boards. I'll have to do some searching to find out. But his white count has been high since July with no known cause that they can find.

4) No, they did not. They used ultrasound when checking for the pancreatitis.
 
Re: 12/26 Todd AMPS 470, +6 530

I was posting in yesterday to keep the topic together, but see you now have a condo for today. I didnt see that when I posted a while ago. Here is what I posted in your last condo a few hours ago:

carolynandlatte said:
Thank you for taking time to answer some of the questions asked of you. What is your name btw?
I went back and read your introductory post in LL. It was pretty thurough and I can tell you are a very dedicated bean and really want to make sure you are doing the right things for Todd. I also understand your fear and frustration over not understanding what is going on. Their little bodies can be so complex!

One thing that can cause a rise in bun/creatinine is a kidney infection. Of course any infection in the body can also increase BG's. You have noted in some of your posts about back leg weakness Todd has. Certainly there could be many reasons for this (potassium levels, neuropathy, etc). These infections can cause back pain. I wont go into Latte's situation too much, but after learning (too late) about a kidney stone, her battling multiple infections @ one time, and serious issues with walking/mobility near the end, I do think a bad infection can cause enough pain to limit their mobility. Kidney infections are very difficult to 'diagnose'. Often times, when suspected a course of antibiotics are given for 6-8 weeks. Fluids and diet change are also a part of treatment. Im wondering how much this possibility has been explored?

Here is some information on kidney infections:
http://www.petplace.com/cats/pyelonephritis-in-cats/page1.aspx
http://www.felinecrf.org/causes_of_crf.htm#pyelonephritis

If Todd were my cat, here are the things I would want to do in the next week.

1. Talk to the vet about possible kidney (not urinary tract) infection. Is it a possibility? Could many of his symptoms be related? How would the vet come to the conclusion and how would they want to treat it?

2. More BG spot checks. Do a few curves, both am and pm cycles. This would involve testing every 2-4hrs. You could do a.m. one day and p.m. a day or two later, for sleep and sanity purposes. Take some tests before giving fluids and an hour after. Note this on your ss, for future reference. Test when he eats kibble. Test a few hours later. Test a few hours after that. Get an idea of how the current food is affecting his bg's. Dont hesitate to look at Latte's ss. As you scroll down, you will see how I documented all of this stuff so I could see what was going on. You will notice toward the end of her stay here her BG's could drop 200-300pts in an hr or two and then rise back up that much or more in another hour or two. EASILY missed data had I not been testing so much. I would have just thought she was always HI. I know it feels like a lot of poking. There are a lot of good tips people can share to make it easier on you and Todd.

3. Go to the store with a list of wet foods that are low carb/lower phosphorus and buy 1-2 cans of each. IF ibd is suspected, aim for some grain free. Suggestions that many of us use who have cats with renal issues , fd, and ibd are ff (chicken/liver, chicken, turkey), wellness (turkey, chicken, turkey/salmon), evo (duck, turkey). Look up some of the friskies varieties and see which one's are lower phosphorus. They may not be grain free, but it might be worth seeing if he is interested in it. Pick up some babyfood (meat only - beef, chicken, turkey) for emergencies, enticing to eat wet, or treats. Grab some freeze dried treats to be sprinkled on any wet food you offer (or treats in general). Read over Dr. Lisa's website and give a try offering some wet food. With the mirtazipine at work, you *may* find he is more interested in wet food. Even if you can reduce his intake to 50% wet/ 50% dry that will be a HUGE success.

4. Get a copy of the latest labwork from your vet. Not just chicken scribble they tell you over the phone. Ask for a hard copy. Post it here. Many of us are wondering about other blood work values. If phosphorus is high, you may need to consider a binder (which I could send you free) to mix into his food. The binder would also free you up to use whatever foods you want. You wont feel so stuck on the kidney diet. Potassium may need to be supplemented (could be the reason for back leg weakness).

5. Post an introduction to one of the yahoo groups I suggested in one of my earlier posts. Im favored toward tanya's list (aka helen - feline crf info). But either one can help guide you. They will want to see full blood work as well. So be prepared.

6. Get those keto stix and start testing daily for ketones.

7. Ask the vet about splitting fluids during the day, instead of giving all 150ml at the same time.

8. keep a daily condo and keep asking questions.

9. Love on that boy!

10. Do something for yourself. You must be EXHAUSTED!
 
Re: 12/26 Todd AMPS 470, +6 530

Carolyn - My name is Sarah. :)


Thank you for all of the suggestions. Todd goes back to the vet this week (I just need to pick a day and take him in) and I plan on asking them to do a urine test and I will for sure ask about a kidney infection or even stones! Worth a shot to find out.

I really wonder if that might be something going on, because he has started peeing in odd spots. Like about 20 minutes ago, he walked into my husbands office, sat under his desk and peed. He walked right by two litter pans to do it. So I don't know what is up with that. He doesn't seem to struggle when he pees, but he does a bit when he goes poop. I suppose maybe I should try giving him some pumpkin or something.

I hope to have more answers this week and more info for all of you, so you are able to help me more.

Someone asked, maybe it was you.. if Todd is on phosphorus binders. He is not. I asked the vet about it a couple of times, and was told that he didn't need it at this time, because his phosphorus was not high. That was, I believe near the start of Nov. Possibly late Oct. But I will ask again.


As for the wet food, I just need to get some ideas of good wet food I can try with him. I wish he wasn't so picky. When he was young, he wasn't like this at all. He would eat anything but people food.
 
Re: 12/26 Todd AMPS 470, +6 530 PMPS 249 (YAY!)

Sarah: keep in mind that the normal range of phosphorus values includes that of kittens and kittens P is usually higher than adults. For a cat with CKD, you do not want them above 5 without giving phosphate binders...it is best to have them at 4 or below if possible. Alot of vets will just look at that number and if it is, say, 7, they'll not start phosphate binders because that number IS normal....but it's normal for kittens, not CKD cats.
 
Re: 12/26 Todd AMPS 470, +6 530 PMPS 249, +6 1/2 285 (YAY!

+6 1/2 285!! Not bad..

Going back to bed now. heh
 
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