? 12/25: MITTENS - Novolin N (TID) - Ketones Small - MDPS 223

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Good morning!

Hmm, I'm going to echo Linda about these numbers [but also: :woot: on the news that ketones is back to "trace"!!!!]. She's not sky-high, but I wouldn't have expected her to go up at all at this time. The good news about it is that it eases up on the testing schedule, possibly offering more sleep opportunities (though of course there is still the feeding).

Great job keeping all of this going! I am in awe...
 
Sorry Dan. I overslept the alarm. Mittens just isn't moving this cycle. We still need to make sure she gets food/fluids so feed her again and follow it with another syringe of water. Thinking.
 
Dan, are you sure there was no wet fur following the shot? I'm thinking the possibility of a furshot again as she was just too flat and now is rising. The amount of insulin is so small it would be hard to detect and furshots happen to us all. I think we need to think about the possibility of moving the next shot a little earlier. Let's get the next test at +7.

In the meantime I am to tag a couple of folks to see if we can get a consensus of opinion as to whether we can move the next shot back to at least 09:30 or even 09:00 given the readings this cycle. We need to get that BG down.
@Jill & Alex (GA) @Meya14 thoughts???
 
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Morning!

Great job overnight, people. How are you bearing up, Linda and Dan/Heather? And you, Nan: did you sleep OK? :bighug:

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Sorry for the lack of updates, just trying to catch up on cleaning around the house.

I fed her 2 syringes of the baby food(beef & Broth) about 10ml each, but she was refusing real hard so id say she only got about half of each. I also gave her the potassium with fancy feast(i had just fed our other cat and had some left). I fed her 1 syringe of water also, and shes went and drank on her own a few times.

PMPS - 229 1:15am EST
+1 - 249 3:00am EST
+1.5 -247 3:30am EST
+2 -301 4:00am EST
+4 -304 6:00am EST
+5.5 -368 7:30am EST

I just did what i thought was the +6 at +5.5.

MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Dan, are you sure there was no wet fur following the shot? I'm thinking the possibility of a furshot again as she was just too flat and now is rising. The amount of insulin is so small it would be hard to detect and furshots happen to us all. I think we need to think about the possibility of moving the next shot a little earlier. Let's get the next test at +7.

In the meantime I am to tag a couple of folks to see if we can get a consensus of opinion as to whether we can move the next shot back to at least 09:30 or even 09:00 given the readings this cycle. We need to get that BG down.
@Jill & Alex (GA) @Meya14 thoughts???
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I wasnt there for her last insulin shot so im not sure, but judging from the numbers i would consider that a possibility although im definitely no expert. Should i still do the next test at +7 you think?
 
NB: Potassium supplement is due now if not already given.

Just seen status update. Potassium onboard.

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Critter Mom said:
Dan,

How much time does it take to feed a syringeful of food to Mittens?

.
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I would say about 10 minutes on average, sometimes a few minutes longer when shes really fighting it. I was hoping she would eat on her own by now, she was never the type of cat to not eat canned food. I still try putting some on a plate(when im feeding my other cat)and holding it up for her and she just turns and walks away. I wonder if its something else holding her from eating like a bad tooth or something? We asked the vet to check both times we were there but she said it looked normal.
 
Dan&Heather said:
I wonder if its something else holding her from eating like a bad tooth or something? We asked the vet to check both times we were there but she said it looked normal.
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It could be constipation/other. We're certain she's nauseated.

VERY IMPORTANT

- Has Mittens pee'd again since last night?

- Has Mittens had a poo at all? Or diarrhoea/watery poo?

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Critter Mom said:
It could be constipation/other. We're certain she's nauseated.

VERY IMPORTANT

- Has Mittens pee'd again since last night?

- Has Mittens had a poo at all? Or diarrhoea/watery poo?

.
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She has peed once, but i didnt get their in time to test for ketones. The way she was standing in there led me to believe she wasnt ready, but she went anyway. She has not had any bowel movements since i brought her to the vet besides the one the day of or possibly the day after her first vet visit.
 
It's vital that you keep Mittens sequestered in the room with the separate litter box today. Needs to be where you all sit so she has your company for reassurance. (((Mittens)))

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When you offer her food on a plate, try offering something different from what you're syringing with. Maybe some Friskies Pate.
Also, I was reading the original thread and you mentioned the vet saying there was a possible infection. Did the vet say what kind? Were any antibiotics given?
 
Sharon14 said:
When you offer her food on a plate, try offering something different from what you're syringing with. Maybe some Friskies Pate.
Also, I was reading the original thread and you mentioned the vet saying there was a possible infection. Did the vet say what kind? Were any antibiotics given?
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She wont eat anything on her own, even her treats which has always always been her favorite thing and she would never pass up. Ive tried almost everything, even the boiled chicken(which she also loves) and its the same response from her everytime. :( She just stares off and walks away.

MrWorfMen's Mom said:
@Dan&Heather When did the feeding get completed? trying to keep insulin shot timing. :)
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Still trying to feed her now, i had to get heather up to help. Will update as soon as were done. Sorry, its taking so long shes being real stubborn this morning.
 
Sharon14 said:
When you offer her food on a plate, try offering something different from what you're syringing with. Maybe some Friskies Pate.
Also, I was reading the original thread and you mentioned the vet saying there was a possible infection. Did the vet say what kind? Were any antibiotics given?
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Sadly no the vet didnt say anything besides it could be a infection, cancer or a tumor. Mittens younger sister Tabby passed away about 4 years ago from a tumor in her mouth. Tabby had the same mother as Mittens but from a different litter, about 6 months or so apart.
 
Ok, Heather here, trying to read through these and get caught up from last night, I feel pretty out of it right now. Got done feeding her about 15 minutes ago. So should I wait till 10:15 to give her the insulin so she has that half hour in between like she was getting last night?
 
Yes Heather you can give insulin @ 10:15am. When you've given it be sure to check the fur closely all around the injections site to ensure it's not wet. We really need to be sure the insulin is getting into her. :)
 
donnalea said:
How long do you have to keep this up until you can get some anti nausa meds?
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I'm not sure really, there's no more money until thursday.

I just gave her the insulin maybe a minute ago, very confident that it was not a fur shot. Maybe it was last night and I didn't realize it and that's why numbers weren't great. How long should I wait before I test her BG?
 
With nausea, they will act like they are going to eat and then refuse and lick or smack their lips.

Dan mentioned maybe a bad tooth. Some of the symptoms of that is:

refusing to eat
or when eating dropping the food from their mouth
or tilting their head to one side as if to move the food away from the bad tooth
excessive drooling
and pawing at that face.
And if an abscess is present a swollen face.
 
Heather can you please tell me how many ml of food and what food you got into Mittens at Pre-shot so I can update the SS please. SOrry to keep you hopping but the better records we keep the easier this will be. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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MrWorfMen's Mom said:
We need to get that BG down.
@Jill & Alex (GA) @Meya14 thoughts???
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Just a few thoughts:

BG numbers & ketones...
As a community, we're naturally focused on bringing BG numbers down, but when a kitty is throwing ketones it's not about the numbers as much as it is about getting food & water/fluids into the cat, providing an adequate supply of insulin, and treating whatever problem is going on in kitty's body (infection/systemic stress) to rid the body of ketones. What I'm trying to say is yes, the numbers this past cycle are lousy, but the results of the last ketone test is encouraging!

A reminder about dosing decisions with N...
Since N is an "in and out" insulin, it's not necessary to dose consistently. One dose does not build upon the next. In other words, the dose can be increased for higher preshot numbers and decreased for lower preshot numbers. Eventually (after collecting sufficient data), a sliding scale of sorts can be used. I will leave that for those experienced with N.

@Larry and Kitties : I know you mentioned dosing 0.75u N every 12 hours the other day. Given the results with dosing TID (see spreadsheet data), do you still feel the same? While we have had a favorable ketone test recently, in this case, I'm wondering if we could achieve the same with a less strenuous schedule (dosing BID).

Anyone with N experience with cats have any thoughts?

Food, water, and fluids...
Getting enough food and water into Mittens is imperative. Fluids will also help keep kitty hydrated. I am currently concerned about not getting enough food into Mittens. The possibility of her being constipated is worrisome. If she's constipated, getting any food into her will become more & more difficult as time goes on. A vet/vet tech should be able to palpate Mittens abdomen to feel for a buildup of stool. If possible, an x-ray would be optimal.


That's all I can think of for now. I'll be unavailable most of the day, but will look in when I can.

 
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MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Heather, can you please check your PMs for a message from Woodsywife and don't be shy!
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I don't see one in there, I just checked.

MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Heather can you please tell me how many ml of food and what food you got into Mittens at Pre-shot so I can update the SS please
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She got about 7.5 total, she fought extra hard that last time, I know were supposed to be getting more into her specially pre-shot.

MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Sorry but can you just confirm shot was given at 10:15 please. Again for the record
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It ended up being at 10:25, I waited because I wanted to confirm on here that it was still the same dose amount. I knew it probably would be but I can't take it back afterwards so I wanted to be sure.

I just tested her BG again about 15 minutes ago at 11:55 my time +1.5 -322
 
Thank you for the details Heather. Did you give Mittens baby food or FFC?

Ok on the PM. Other stuff abuzz just now so no worries.
 
Based on the BG so far I think that TID dosing is better. When ketones are negative then consider BID dosing.
I would also consider increasing the dose to 0.6 (just hair more than 0.5) as long as Mitten keeps down the same or greater amount of food.
Aoso, I am concerned about not defecting since that can lead to vomiting
 
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