12/23 Asia PMPS 78, +2.25 55, +3 56, +5 82, +6 43, +6.5 63

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Stacy & Asia

Stacy & Asia

Member Since 2017
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...04-bupe-pbinder-subq-fluids-questions.188420/

Asia had a decent cycle last night but started going way up at the end and now we're starting with a 361! Yuck!

P binders went well, she doesn't suspect it in her food which is a happy surprise. I gave the bupe at PMPS and I'm not sure how exactly to tell what is a low, therapeutic dose vs too much? I think it might be a little too much. When she was on a higher dose for acute pain, she was saucer eyed and super lovey and rubbing her face on everything, a little spaced out, not a care in the world. On this dose, she is saucer eyed, stares in to space a little bit, I can tell her mouth isn't bothering her. Is the saucer eyes just a thing regardless of dose? I associate it with her being really doped up. I read it should last 6-8 hours and it seems to last longer than that, she woke up saucer eyed after a good 12 hours. I am going to give it a little more time just to see how she is acting/feeling, but I just really don't know what to expect.

Here's a photo of her doing her best Puss n Boots saucer eyed impression from Shrek.
 

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It sounds to me like the dose it a little too high for her. It's hard to balance it out, but the goal is to try and find a dose that keeps her from being in pain but doesn't make her out of it. My civvie Callie (GA) had stomach cancer and was prescribed bupe. They wanted me to give her 0.15 ml three times a day. I slowly decreased her dose and ended up giving her 0.06 ml three times a day. In my experience the vet usually prescribes dose that is too high.
 
She's not doing the saucer eye thing today, but there was a lot of head jerking and spitting this morning, so it's entirely possible I squirted the whole dose in her fur, on a towel, somewhere that wasn't her mouth. :( I doubt this oral stuff is going to work out. It really sucks because with so many things, like abx, there just isn't an injectable form I could give, with bupe, there is, but it's so controlled, it's not an option. Very frustrating. :(
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LR8TU3M?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

https://www.amazon.com/Kruuse-Buster-Pill-Tablet-Syringe/dp/B007RQQKWC/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1514061096&sr=8-4&keywords=pill gun for cats
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Thanks, Tanya, we've tried the pill popper and I have one. No dice. The biggest thing with pilling or liquid meds with Asia is I'm honestly afraid she will hurt herself trying to get away, she's quite strong when she's scared like that.

Bupe specifically isn't supposed to be ingested, but absorbed into mucosa, I'm sure it would work either way, but not as well and take longer if ingested.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Thanks, Tanya, we've tried the pill popper and I have one. No dice. The biggest thing with pilling or liquid meds with Asia is I'm honestly afraid she will hurt herself trying to get away, she's quite strong when she's scared like that.

Bupe specifically isn't supposed to be ingested, but absorbed into mucosa, I'm sure it would work either way, but not as well and take longer if ingested.
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Correct on the bupe.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
If her pupils are staying dilated, it’s likely a bit too much. You can always halve the dose and see how she does. Bupe has a pretty wide dosing range.

Come back down, Miss!!
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Okay, that was my gut feeling that it's too much. I'm going to attempt to halve the dose, they are premeasured in syringes. I can use one to suck half the amount from another or use an insulin syringe to take out half and squirt it into a blank food syringe and give her that. Either way it's going to messy and less precise than I want, but it's better than space cat being spacey!
 
A terrible mess trying to take from one syringe with another, I ended up using an insulin syringe to draw from one and deposit in the other. I hope the lubrication doesn't mess with the bupe like it does with insulin since it will be sitting in there for a time.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Okay, that was my gut feeling that it's too much. I'm going to attempt to halve the dose, they are premeasured in syringes. I can use one to suck half the amount from another or use an insulin syringe to take out half and squirt it into a blank food syringe and give her that. Either way it's going to messy and less precise than I want, but it's better than space cat being spacey!
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How about just give half from the prefilled tuberculin syringe they give you and givd the other half next dose? That’s what I did with Livia when she was spayed and had her rhinoplasty.

You gotta get a picture of the face!!!!
 
Marje and Gracie said:
How about just give half from the prefilled tuberculin syringe they give you and givd the other half next dose? That’s what I did with Livia when she was spayed and had her rhinoplasty.

You gotta get a picture of the face!!!!
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Oh I wish, that's so not happening, I'm lucky to get in there fast enough to push the plunger, there's no gingerly pushing it halfway, no fine dosing possible, that would require more patience than Asia can muster when you come anywhere near her mouth! :joyful::joyful::joyful:

Pevsfreedom's account photo is Luna's face (I hope). It's a great face! But here's a bonus Asia face! :cat:
 

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Stacy & Asia said:
Oh I wish, that's so not happening, I'm lucky to get in there fast enough to push the plunger, there's no gingerly pushing it halfway, no fine dosing possible, that would require more patience than Asia can muster when you come anywhere near her mouth! :joyful::joyful::joyful:

Pevsfreedom's account photo is Luna's face (I hope). It's a great face! But here's a bonus Asia face! :cat:
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Aahhh I get it. What if you put as much as you could into one or two tuberculin syringes and then saved the others to just then fill from the fuller ones with the half dose?

But I sure love Asia’s face!!! She is absolutely adorable.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Aahhh I get it. What if you put as much as you could into one or two tuberculin syringes and then saved the others to just then fill from the fuller ones with the half dose?

But I sure love Asia’s face!!! She is absolutely adorable.
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How would I transfer the amounts? Could I dump them out into a small dish (like a sauce dish) and then draw up the .05 from that and fill as many as I can and over fill one with the excess? I'm so used to insulin being weird about being handled and all that, I don't know if bupe is similar or how stable it is. These particular syringes are very wide mouthed if that makes sense, there's no funnel at the end, it's almost as wide as the syringe itself.

Thanks, she is adorable (and she knows it too) ;)
 
Stacy & Asia said:
How would I transfer the amounts? Could I dump them out into a small dish (like a sauce dish) and then draw up the .05 from that and fill as many as I can and over fill one with the excess? I'm so used to insulin being weird about being handled and all that, I don't know if bupe is similar or how stable it is. These particular syringes are very wide mouthed if that makes sense, there's no funnel at the end, it's almost as wide as the syringe itself.

Thanks, she is adorable (and she knows it too) ;)
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Hmmm.....so the top is not wider than where the needle goes so you can’t put the needle end (without the needle) to the top of another one and squirt it down? I think it is not as big an issue as insulin. The tuberculin syringes I have are wider at the top where the plunger inserts and narrow at the end where the syringe screws on.

I also have these little tiny funnels. Boy have they been helpful with cat liquids.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Hmmm.....so the top is not wider than where the needle goes so you can’t put the needle end (without the needle) to the top of another one and squirt it down? I think it is not as big an issue as insulin. The tuberculin syringes I have are wider at the top where the plunger inserts and narrow at the end where the syringe screws on.

I also have these little tiny funnels. Boy have they been helpful with cat liquids.
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Nope, these are wide, if I take the plunger out I cannot insert one end into the top of another, they say for oral use only.

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Sorry about missing sleep. But congrats on the reduction. Love Asia's face pic. :kiss:

I found Neko's numbers went down a bit when she first started bupre regularly. Addressing pain can do that. I never found a good solution for doing less bupe in a prefilled syringe, other than squirting out and tossing what I didn't want to give.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Sorry about missing sleep. But congrats on the reduction. Love Asia's face pic. :kiss:

I found Neko's numbers went down a bit when she first started bupre regularly. Addressing pain can do that. I never found a good solution for doing less bupe in a prefilled syringe, other than squirting out and tossing what I didn't want to give.
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Oh, I had no idea. Makes sense, I heard pain can raise bg, but I guess I was thinking short and sudden pain, not long lasting like arthritis. This isn't too out of order for what she normally does though, the drop, drop dropping. Yay for reductions!
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Good grief, Asia!

Those are definitely different from mine. Hmmmm...I’ll have to think on this some more.
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I have half a box of monoject non half unit marked syringes that are just collecting dust, so if that lubrication wouldn't mess with it, it seems to be the most exacting way to pull from one and put in another.
 
My vet sold me the prefilled syringes at first, and then once I was using bupe indefinitely they changed to selling me a tiny vial of bupe with a few syringes that look something like the one you have in the picture only there was a needle on the end. I was to draw up my dose using the syringe with the needle and then take the needle off and give it orally.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
I have half a box of monoject non half unit marked syringes that are just collecting dust, so if that lubrication wouldn't mess with it, it seems to be the most exacting way to pull from one and put in another.
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That part I don’t know.....about the lubrication. I’m sorry I don’t have any info on that. Seems like the bupe wouldn’t be in it long enough to affect it but that’s only a guess.
 
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