12/19 Max (in remission 9/12) AMBG 141; +3 101, +6 109. Switching to a raw diet, numbers up

[Rebecca & Max (GA)]

I have read a few older posts about how a raw food diet should NOT increase BGLs but has anyone had a cat come out of remission by switching to raw??

At what point do I know it's time for Lantus again, AND what dose would I start at?

Last week, Max's weekly spot check was 87. The week before that was 83. His weekly-ish reads have been mid-80s (SS is up to date!). One 104 read dropped to 84 after food and a retest @ +3. This morning Max was 141! I grabbed the AT just to check and he was 208 on that, so yep, he was indeed up.

I have been trying to transition both cats over to a raw diet as our other cat has advancing CKD, and Max has early CKD and finding low carb AND low phosphorus food they will both eat is getting really hard. I chose to use Food Fur Life premix (no carbs) which I mix in with raw or cooked meat I buy, and so far the cats are very happy - I tried to go slow but they wanted the raw over their usual canned food! They have had both raw and cooked (our girl likes cooked better) beef, turkey, and chicken, but this was the first week Max got more of the raw food than canned food. We ran out of the usual Weruva food, so this morning's numbers scared me. I fed him only Fancy Feast and retested 3 hours later - down to 101. Fed more Fancy Feast and retested after another 3 hours - up to 109 (so holding?). That increase is probably negligible, though, right?

Max has been very unhappy lately only having access to the backyard (after the coyote attack he was kept indoors, but he wants OUT so he can go into our backyard). He has tried multiple times to escape this week but was stopped. I am wondering if the raised BGLs could be due to him being stressed about not getting out where he wants to be? He has NOT been vomiting or having diarrhea, so the raw food seems to agree with him, BUT could that anger his pancreas? He was NOT happy about being tested today - I had to pull out the gardening glove to protect my hand. Time to worry, or just be aware?

 

[Bandit's Mom]

Hi @Wendy&Neko there are duplicate posts of this condo. Can one be deleted? Linking the other one here:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...09-switching-to-a-raw-diet-numbers-up.240256/

 

[Wendy&Neko]

there are duplicate posts of this condo. Can one be deleted?

Done. Rebecca could have done it too cause no one had responded to it yet.

but has anyone had a cat come out of remission by switching to raw??

Not that I've seen in my time here. There are couple higher carb raw products (Honest Kitchen), which is dehydrated and contains potatoes.

How are Max's litter box habits? Just wondering if a switch in food is causing digestive upset.

They have had both raw and cooked (our girl likes cooked better) beef, turkey, and chicken,

Has Max had beef and turkey before? Since you said Weruva, I know he's had chicken.

 

[Rebecca & Max (GA)]

Done. Rebecca could have done it too cause no one had responded to it yet.


Not that I've seen in my time here. There are couple higher carb raw products (Honest Kitchen), which is dehydrated and contains potatoes.

How are Max's litter box habits? Just wondering if a switch in food is causing digestive upset.


Has Max had beef and turkey before? Since you said Weruva, I know he's had chicken.

Thank you for deleting the extra post! I didn’t know it posted twice until I looked. I tried posting and it just sat there with the bars moving then went back to my post (no notice it posted). I then posted it and it went through as usual. Ugh. I couldn’t figure out how to delete it in my end.

As for Max, he has had beef and turkey in various foods & forms (cat food to treats). Some of the Weruva was beef and chicken, he’s had FF turkey & giblets, etc. We tried him with a few Identity canned cat food which is very low phos and low carb (1-5%) but he didn’t like it. The other cat does, but I’m trying to streamline feeding them fur the sake of my family (a lot of Patches’ low phos food were high carb- Identity was my last try before raw).
I tried looking for a commercial raw food, and found one both cats just went crazy for (only meat/organs), but the phos was just way too high (it had bones). The one boneless brand I found locally was refused but both cats. Our dog’s food line has a low phos cat food, but they add veggies (ARGH!). So I turned to a premix. Both cats have had normal to smaller stools, but I hadn’t been adding much more water to the mixed food (you add the meat, the premix, and water). Max has visited the drinking fountains a bit more that he has but I’m not sure if that’s the food (I always add water to their canned food), or an insulin issue.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I used FoodFurLife for Neko with no change in her BG. I was just trying to rule out other ideas for higher numbers.

 

[Juls and Billy]

With the new food and the higher BGL, the first thing I would try is to go back to the old food for a week and see if the BGL improves. Normal range on a human meter is 50-120. Every once in a while, my sugar dude in remission has a reading over 100 but under 110, so I don't worry about it. But that 141 for Max this morning is an issue. As is the fact that he's stayed over 100 all day so far. I don't think the new food is working for him.

Generally, ground bone is a part of a healthy raw diet. How high is too high in phosphorus?

 

[Rebecca & Max (GA)]

I used FoodFurLife for Neko with no change in her BG. I was just trying to rule out other ideas for higher numbers.

Thank you, I understand- rule out stuff as a lot is new. I’m thinking he’s constipated! Since using the premix I stopped adding Miralax to his food. Up at 5:30 AM this morning to feed him, and he ran for water, then the litter box- four times. Second time he jumped out (his MO- always exits like his tail is on fire) and then barfed up all the FF I had just fed him. He then returned to the litter box, pooped a bit more, ran to the other cat’s litter box, and pooped again. He also peed so I grabbed the Diastix and took a sample before the litter absorbed it all and it was negative for sugar (no change on pad color), so yay? Unless they are too old - today is literally the 6-month mark from when they were opened. We had one small can of Soulistic chicken dinner which is low phos and like 5% carbs (he’s used to eating 4-6% carbs) which he happily ate and is now resting in his chosen spot. I have an order set for pick up today of his Weruva foods...will keep adding Miralax, and go back to his usual and see if his numbers drop.
Since you have used the FoodFurLife, can I ask what proteins you fed? I’m thinking of buying a meat grinder attachment and even a Sous Vida so I can ‘lightly cook’ the food for the other cat. Finding low sodium chicken, and turkey w/o rosemary extract is hard.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I didn't use a meat grinder - the inner lazy person. I had two sources of meat. One was an organic exotic meat butcher (who would grind the meat for me), the other was a raw pet food specialty with freezers and freezers full of preground meat. My basics with FoodFurLife were chicken, turkey, and buffalo. I also tried elk. Could have but didn't do the wild boar or ostrich. Plus I had access to locally made low phosphorus raw food with venison and kangaroo that were regularly in the rotation.

 

[Rebecca & Max (GA)]

With the new food and the higher BGL, the first thing I would try is to go back to the old food for a week and see if the BGL improves. Normal range on a human meter is 50-120. Every once in a while, my sugar dude in remission has a reading over 100 but under 110, so I don't worry about it. But that 141 for Max this morning is an issue. As is the fact that he's stayed over 100 all day so far. I don't think the new food is working for him.

Generally, ground bone is a part of a healthy raw diet. How high is too high in phosphorus?

I ordered his usual Weruva foods from Petco, and started him back on them this morning. I have let his ears rest today, but am thinking of checking him at his next feeding tonight. I believe he may have been constipated. He woke me at 5:30 AM for food, then ran off to the water fountain and then to the litter box. He shot out of it (his usual MO), but then barfed up all he'd eaten (also not uncommon if he's fed FF exclusively). He then jumped back into the litterbox, pooped a little, ran out again, and then jumped into the other cat's litterbox and pooped there. He's been great since then, lol. I had stopped giving him Miralax with the raw mixin because it has digestive enzymes but gave him a dose at 12:30 AM. I was afraid the Miralax would be too much. Clearly, he still needs some. I gave him a bit more at 5:30 AM, so now we wait for more poop.

BUT, the fact he was over 100 is concerning. I'm not sure if constipation could do that, but I'm trying to remedy that. The premix has no carbs, but I wonder if the beef, chicken, and turkey I used had caused any issue. I just found out that ground turkey with rosemary extract is a no-no for small animals - argh. We scored some frozen turkey for a ridiculous price (paid $5 for a $39 turkey!). I had planned on grinding it myself, but then checked the sodium content, and it's too high. I'm going to keep Max on his old food for the week and keep checking him but may try the raw again if he drops.

As for phosphorus, yes, bone is great in raw food, but that's where most of the phosphorus comes from. I contacted the company of the food the cats loved but their food was over the recommended 0.7%/200 mg of phos. The chicken food they inhaled was 3.14% phos . I posted to my CKD group and they strongly suggested I not feed that food. The food maker did say that bone is still controversial in CKD, and that feeding egg whites with the food could reduce phos levels, and included two articles for me to read. Our one cat is much farther advanced than Max. Sub Qs are probably in order, but our vet says she's compensating well - she's eating well, drinking, and going to the bathroom as usual, so that's not something he's planning on recommending. Now that Max is on that road, I'd like to keep him going as slow as possible. Our vet did say treat the diabetes first (to keep him in remission), kidney disease second. ARGH...

 

[Rebecca & Max (GA)]

I didn't use a meat grinder - the inner lazy person. I had two sources of meat. One was an organic exotic meat butcher (who would grind the meat for me), the other was a raw pet food specialty with freezers and freezers full of preground meat. My basics with FoodFurLife were chicken, turkey, and buffalo. I also tried elk. Could have but didn't do the wild boar or ostrich. Plus I had access to locally made low phosphorus raw food with venison and kangaroo that were regularly in the rotation.

We have a few good butcher shops, but nothing too exotic. I have an inner lazy person too, and figured it would just be easier for them to grind it for me. The food stores in my area have lots of ground food, but they all contain bone and are too high in phosphorus. One company had just ground meat, but it's a special order and takes like two weeks to get.

Thanks so much for all the help!!