12/18 Lucy PMPS=166 // test results & spoke with the vet

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mariko

mariko

Member Since 2011
Good morning!!

Yesterday's condo

12/17 AMPS=119; +2=85; +2.5=85; 3=86; +3.5=104; +9=108
12/17 reduced PMPS=119; +2=95; +4.5=117; +6=128

12/18 AMPS=122; +2=131
12/18 reduced PMPS=166

After seeing the vet yesterday evening, I reduced the dose again by 0.25 unit, and she is on 1.5 unit since last night.
At first, when the vet told me that Lucy might be getting more insulin that she needs (details in the yesterdays condo towards the bottom, please take a look and your thoughts please if any), I couldn't believe it.
But after she explained to me why she thought that, I felt more convinced that it was a possible theory, so I reduced her dose again to be on the safe side.

And this morning, Lucy is feeling & eating so much better!!!
I am so so so relieved.
She ate the 1st breakfast well by finger-feeding without cypro.
She is moving around better, not so sluggishly anymore, and her posture seems more relaxed.

So all this is making me think that the vet was probably right about insulin overdose.
She is going to call me with the test results later today, so I will know more about it - if what she thought was causing Lucy unwell is right or if there is something else.
I looked and looked at Lucy's SS to see what and where I missed, and of course I cannot see anything.
How am I going to be able to trust myself with adjusting dose in future?
Any idea what I should have done differently?

Sending vines to all in need!!!
 
Re: 12/18 Lucy AMPS=122

Good Morning Mariko

I have no advice. I just am happy that Lucy is eating better today. :-D I'm sure you are enjoying that. :smile:

Barb
 
Re: 12/18 Lucy AMPS=122

Mariko that is great news! How wonderful that Lucy is eating and feeling better :-D :-D
I went back and read yesterday's condo re: the vet visit. I agree with Jane. You are so in tune with your little girl, and you need to trust YOUR gut instinct. She is your baby, and you are only going to do what is right by her :-D
I am no pro, by any stretch of the imagination, but in life, when you make change and the results are positive, you go with it. When the results are more negative, you re-evaluate. So as far as I can see...the decrease is giving you positive results. If it were me, I'd go with it.
The nice thing about all of this is that you can always go up...or down. You are not trapped into anything.
Please never doubt yourself. You are an amazing person and caregiver. Lucy is blessed to have you, and we are all blessed to know you!
 
Re: 12/18 Lucy AMPS=122

i read your last post yesterday about the vet's comments. my reaction is that cats develop patterns that are unique to each one, but predictable to that particular cat. i haven't seen cats that were moving along in a gentle Lantus curve during a cycle, then had a zig zag down to a low number and came back up right away, then moved along again on a normal lantus curve. that's one of the reasons cats do so well on Lantus - its long-lasting nature encourages flatter cycles.

it's not impossible that this could happen, of course. i'm just saying i've never seen it. I've seen plenty of cats dive, but most of the time we see that's going to happen at +2. cats whose preshot is much higher than the +2 are obvious - and they often dive. you get a +2 at almost every cycle and most of what i'm seeing in recent days is fairly flat from the preshot. Where you got a +2 significantly lower, then you continued to test and the couple of cycles i'm looking at all ended up kinda flat.

Lantus' action is predictable. Lucy looks to me like she has a typical Lantus curve most of the time. what your vet is describing is unpredictable.

The other factor here is the depot. When you reduce a dose, the previous dose has built up a depot in the cat's body that is slow-releasing. With a dose reduction, the previous dose can affect as many as 6 cycles after the reduction. So you could very reasonably be seeing effects today from the 2.0u dose. Reducing a dose wouldn't ordinarily result in an immediate feeling differently by the cat. Never say never, of course, when it comes to our diabetic cats. :lol:

So . . . i guess what i'm saying is that i am skeptical at your vet's suggestion that Lucy is overdose. She has so many things going on that she could easily be feeling better or worse from the IBD or pancreatitis or any other thing going on. I'm a fan of the TR protocol and think following it is the way to keep a cat in the most healthy control for their diabetes that is possible.

HOWEVER, you're there and seeing her. there's nothing wrong with reducing her dose and seeing what happens. just keep the depot nature of Lantus in mind as you analyze things and don't hesitate to take her dose back up if you see her numbers trending up.

that's my 2 cents worth. :-D
 
Re: 12/18 Lucy AMPS=122

Hi Mariko, I just wanted to say hello, and I'm glad Lucy is eating and feeling better, it's always such a relief when they act better for their beans. Sending more appy vines to her :-D
 
Re: 12/18 Lucy AMPS=122

I really can't offer a "technical" opinion about Lucy's dose situation, but ECID, and we have definitely seen some very unique situations in LL, so one never knows. The main thing, though, is that Lucy is feeling great today...that is what counts, and I hope it's still the case tonight. Have great one, Mariko!!
 
Re: 12/18 Lucy PMPS=166

Thank you for your visit!
The vet called with the blood work results.

- Fructosamine was really low (forgot to ask the number).
- Her kidney values are similar to what they were in the previous test.
- Her protein value was even better. (Yay!!!)

So the vet thinks that her diagnose is likely right.
Here is what she suggested, and what I am going to listen to.
I am only temporarily dropping out of TP! I still want to stay here!!!

- Reduce her dose waaaay down to 0.5 unit.
- Keep her on 0.5 unit for 2 days. Don't increase the dose right up if I see a higher number. If I can't restrain myself, then don't even test. (<-- I am still going to get at least PS#s. It's only for 2 days.)
- After 2 days, do a curve and let's come up with an appropriate dose, and increase from there if needed.

I am pretty sure that 0.5 unit will not work for Lucy.
But I am going to take her suggestion because I have a lot of faith in this doctor.
I am going to at least try her suggestion and see how it works.

Lucy is feeling even better this evening.
For the first time in a while, she followed me to the kitchen at the dinner time.
Also, she greeted me at the door when I came home.
I had been finding her at the exact spot where I left her in the past while, so I was very happy to see her come out to the door today. :-D

I don't necessarily believe what the vet has suggested would work out wonderfully.
But it may, and I am going to try and see.
I thought I had a pretty easy and predictable flat cat, but maybe there is a possibility that she reacts to insulin very uniquely.
And maybe her other health issues might be messing up with how she should curve.
I don't know and I'm OK that I don't know as long as I'm doing something, trying something to make her feel better.
Also I kind of like the idea of "resetting" her body and figure out the dosing from the scratch......

It's only for a few days that I am dropping out.
I hope you are not disappointed, because we are still going to need your supports!
 
Mariko, you are still part of our family. Of course you are more than welcome here! :YMHUG: And you aren't the first person who has dropped a dose on vet's advice to see what happens. Just remember Julie's advice, the depot can affect up to 6 cycles, so you still might be seeing the higher depot during those two days. Although it should be dropping off at the end. I'll be watching what happens with interest.

I am so happy that Lucy seems to be feeling better, moving around more and eating better. :-D :-D
 
(((mariko)))) you don't have to be following the Tight Reg Protocol to be able to post here! OF COURSE you can still post. no worries - and nothing wrong with trying out something to see if it works. we're cheering you on!
 
Mariko, I don't blame you for being excited to see Lucy feeling so much better. I think you are taking the right course, and I'm going to be watching and praying that it works the way you hope it will. It's so wonderful when a kitty that has been feeling ill and acting that way starts showing energy and interest in life again. Sending vines for you both!

:RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT Go Lucy, go!!!
 
I'm so glad to hear Lucy is feeling better, and that her test results were great! One thing I would suggest/request....please, please, please do test her, even though you're not following TR and reducing her dose. For one, you do want to see how she responds to this trial, but you also want to be absolutely sure that, no matter what, she is safe. While chances are slim she'll drop too low while on this reduced dose, you just never know - FD can be so fickle - so you want to be sure that she is always safe.

And, please feel free to keep posting even though you're not following TR....you and Lucy are family, and we'd love to hear how she responds!
 
Hi Mariko,

Please keep posting and let us now how Lucy is doing and how this new "test" turns out! Best news is that Lucy is feeling better!!
 
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