12/17 Sootie ambg54,+10/52, +14/57. Azalea steadier

[HWright]

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...8-9-60-azaleas-surgery-good-were-home.169716/

Good morning, and hoping all had gentle night in LL.

About 2" snowfall during the night, now on the cusp of changing to sleet and rain.

Sootie's Bg this am: 54. Yes 54. I feel awful worrying about this and asking, knowing all the struggles we all go through towards the goal of blues and greens.

Every day for the past few days, Sootie starts out lower and lower and stays in that range (guessing via ambg and pmbg...absent doing a curve that really should do), all without insulin during the past...two weeks. What gives? Seems as if any depot effect would be long depleted by now?

Civie Axalea all asnoozle still, is a bit more calm, less disoriented than during the night, and has been out from under the bed for several hours now. No interest in fud or water, and it's as if she's jaw clamping and still has no swallowing reflex. Is this characteristic of post op? I don't want her to be without fud for too long but don't want to risk complications if she can't swallow. Trying broth soon, by dabbing some drops on her lips.

Again thank you all for your care and support and suggestions during these times. We'd be up the crick, as the saying goes. And I had all good intentions to reply to everyone's notes and vines...but the night and sleepy sandman dust = zzzz's in between checking on kitties.

Hugs and love and vines for all in need today. Oh yes, this is Saturday, right? Happy Caturday with Winter Solstice
soon, too.

ETA: also am supposed to start azalea on clavamox (oral liquid) a/b. I remember it being not particularly tummy-friendly. But I don't dare dose it on empty tummy and especially if her swallowing reflexes aren't back on board.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Looks to me like this is a OTJ trial, day 8!

You need to get food into your civvie or fatty liver can occur. Have you been in touch with your vet? Less than 3/4 the normal amount of food can bring it on and it's very serious. It can happen in days. I don't read much lately so if this has been suggested just ignore me.

 

[Osha]

You don't need to worry about low numbers if Sootie hasn't had any insulin for awhile. I agree with Elise, it looks like an OTJ trial to me!

I don't have any advice for Azalea, just sending lots and lots of healing and appy vines!!!

 

[HWright]

Looks to me like this is a OTJ trial, day 8!

You need to get food into your civvie or fatty liver can occur. Have you been in touch with your vet? Less than 3/4 the normal amount of food can bring it on and it's very serious. It can happen in days. I don't read much lately so if this has been suggested just ignore me.

Re azalea: yes potential risk for fatty liver and renal worrying me. Contacted one of the vets so far.

Ya think Sootie qualifies for otj trial? I feel as if we haven't really earned it bc something always happened during protocols!

 

[carfurby (GA)]

I hope Azalea will eat for you soon. I wonder if any of the medications are making her not want to eat. Some cats react that way to anesthesia. I'd ask the vet about it.

You don't have to worry about low numbers for Sootie with no insulin in her system. Some cats normal numbers are that low. You can call it an OTJ Trial. She is staying in normal numbers. It doesn't matter how she got there. Amy's Trixie (@Amy&TrixieCat ) went OTJ under those kind of circumstances.

Sending prayers.

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Looking like To me too!! Looks like Sootie is already headed to the Falls and has been calling you to come along!
Some cats run what looks like really low to us but it's their normal! I am so very very happy and excited for you! Embrace the good news, and give Sootie some well done scritches from Gussie and I!
( sometimes the rules just don't apply! Sootie had her mind made up and took the reins herself!)

Sending healing and adjustment vines to Azalea
(I will be really interested to hear how that goes as Jett will have to have his eye removed at some point.)

 

[HWright]

Thanks, all!

Maybe it's all worry mode that's become the norm these many months. But it is sooooo strange to see Sootie's 'norm' numbers dropping every day and if anything else going on...I'd sure like to figure out what and why! I've been making sure that fud is out more often. When I recheck, dishes empty but can't be sure it's Sootie or the two 'hoverers.'

Been syringe feeding broth to Azalea off and on this afternoon...ever since she stirred, made a huge yawn and looked about (as when Snow White first awakens!).

Yum yum broth, ok that's enough, she says. Time to nap again..and so we've been going. Her naps are contagious. I had some cat naps too (without bone broth), wishing I could sleep for at least 24 hours straight, too!
Hoping by usual supper time she'll be feeling yummy about having fud in her tummy..

 

[Vyktors Mum]

You might want to try the liver shake for Azalea instead of the broth so that she is getting her nutrients into her

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/the-liver-shake-for-sick-cats.30432/

 

[HWright]

You might want to try the liver shake for Azalea instead of the broth so that she is getting her nutrients into her

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/the-liver-shake-for-sick-cats.30432/

We're psychic! Was thinking that this afternoon!

 

[HWright]

Sootie's +10 was 52. I sure do want to embrace this but it is sooooo strange that she's dropping almost 10 points a day...on her own. If this keeps up, she'll be in the 40's tomorrow...eeeeek.
Whether it's intuition or worry wort Dane kicking in, or not understanding this phase of pancreatic healing, I dunno.
Should I add mc or hc to her fud to try to stabilize Bg drops?

Azalea coming out of the anesthesia more now. Much more calm, slept on DH's chest a good part of the afternoon. Is more ok with syringe feeding (but turns nose at eating same fud on her own). Ok with broth, and a bit of diluted slurry. Resting again now.
@Vyktors Mum: making small amount of liver shake and will offer that next.

 

[Vyktors Mum]

Save your worry for Azalea - Sootie does not need extra carbs in those numbers without insulin. Some cats naturally run low on their own - in the 40s and sometimes even the 30s. Hope Azalea likes her shake

 

[HWright]

Save your worry for Azalea - Sootie does not need extra carbs in those numbers without insulin. Some cats naturally run low on their own - in the 40s and sometimes even the 30s. Hope Azalea likes her shake

Interestingly, Sootie came downstairs on her own a few minutes ago (she hadn't done this more than a few times during past couple of years), hungry, sniffing around, pacing about, eating a lick's worth then not eating...three different fud choices so far. The one with canned sardines sparked most interest...two licks. I'm wondering if she's dipping into low numbers with symptoms (will check sticky) or if indeed she should be on the a/b again if sniffer's off (bc of sinus infection a couple weeks ago re the vomiting).

Sootie's most surprising and welcome arrival downstairs delayed my making liver shake...doing that next....maybe will offer that to Sootie as smorgasbord choice #4, too.

DH snuggling with Azalea again. Very sweet.

Oy this fud and everything else dance......

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Sweet report on Sootie, I'm thinking she knew you needed company! Very neat she came down to your domain!
Gussie is being resistant to his supper too..I'm hoping he will show an interest in a bit. Even bacon didn't work! Will probably try to mix up one of those shakes tomorrow..
I would bet smelling the fud issues over hypo symptoms...I really don't think she can go hypo without insulin onboard if I learned it right! She's just a kitty who lives lower numbers sounds like to me
Vines to Azalea
Hoping she continues to improve

 

[HWright]

Sweet report on Sootie, I'm thinking she knew you needed company! Very neat she came down to your domain!
Gussie is being resistant to his supper too..I'm hoping he will show an interest in a bit. Even bacon didn't work! Will probably try to mix up one of those shakes tomorrow..
I would bet smelling the fud issues over hypo symptoms...I really don't think she can go hypo without insulin onboard if I learned it right! She's just a kitty who lives lower numbers sounds like to me
Vines to Azalea
Hoping she continues to improve

Yes I think you're right about why Sootie came downstairs. She is very sensient and compassionate. I'd had a harder time getting up and down the stairs as the day progressed. I'm sure she saw and sensed that. Sweet Sootie.
Tonight, after Azalea ate a bit more, syringe-wise and then cough/sneezed but was ok and settled in again, I rechecked Sootie's Bg: 57...up a little. Felt a little better about it. I never thought, when Sootie was diagnosed in October, 2015 in the 500's that today she'd be riding along in the 50's, no juice. new realms for me to accept and better understand.

Hoping Gussie and Jett and Lola back in happy appy again soon, feeling good and that you can get some rest.

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Can't wait to have Sootie join Gussie at the Falls for Sooties party!

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

Hi Sina.

I've been AWOL the past few days and missed Azalea's rapid decline and surgery. I'm so glad she came through it well and is now starting to eat a bit on her own and be more social. I suspect all the discomfort she had been in, coupled with the trauma and pain of surgery contributed to her slow recovery from the anesthesia.

I remember going through a lot of the same emotions following both of Cinco's enucleation surgeries. In the end, though, he was so much better off, once he'd recovered from the surgery itself. It was all worth it. I pray the same will be true for Azalea.

As for our sweet Sootie, what a naughty kitty! Causing Mama extra stress when she's so worried about your sister!

I know the low numbers are a bit concerning, but as others have said, she can't hypo with no insulin. Possibly the fact that she's not eating a lot is contributing to the numbers drop?

Some of the veterans have discussed Sootie's situation, and we pretty much agree she's basically on a trial already. If I'm reading her SS correctly, her last dose was .1 at PMPS on 11/28. She's been all green since 12/9 PMBG, so I'd call this day 8 of the trial.

Just in case no one has given you the official OTJ Trial instructions, here they are:

Start the trial on the next green pre shot.

If she is green at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time; just feed small meals and go about your day. If she is blue at your normal "PS", feed a small meal and test again after about 3 or 4 hours. If her number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!

Post every day so we can monitor your progress and see if any tweaks are needed. She may have a sporadic blue number. Don't panic but post before you decide whether to shoot so we can have a discussion.

After 14 days of no insulin, we have a party!!

Sometimes the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support in the form of resuming insulin. It's not the end of the world if that happens; we just give her the support needed. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to take our time to get that than to rush into remission just to have it fail later on.

Good luck with the trial!!!

Once she is through the trial successfully, you enter a new phase. Your cat is still diabetic but has now become diet-controlled. Continue feeding low carb food in the manner successful for your kitty. If you decide to change her feeding schedule, let your meter be your guide to the best times to feed. Avoid medications with sugar in them and steroid medications unless they are medically essential. Continue testing blood glucose weekly for the first month and then monthly forever. It's a good idea to weigh her monthly. Weight should remain stable. If she seems "off" or sick, or is showing signs of diabetes (excessive drinking, eating, urinating, weight loss), test her blood glucose right away. Keep the teeth and gums clean and healthy; dental issues can bring a cat out of remission. If you see rising blood glucose numbers, it's time for a visit to the vet!

Regarding feeding while wearing a cone, our OV told us emphatically to NOT remove the collar. I experimented with a bunch of different dishes to find one that Cinco could reach with the cone on (being a bigger cat, he had a bigger cone and it hit the floor and kept him from getting his face into his dish). The best one I found was this. I did have to replace the actual dish with a shallower one like this. He could get the cone around it and reach the food.

Sending loads of healing vines for Azalea, and appy vines for both your babies.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Wonderful news about Sootie and I didn't realize it had been that many days that he hasn't had the juice! Yeah, party soon!

Glad to hear that Azalea is coming out of the fort some but not eating well is a concern and maybe it is post surgery but she does have to eat. Have you tried baby food? Also, the vet told me to not take the cone off of him for 10 days but I did take it off while he ate so he could get to his food better. Could that be deterring her?

What has the vet said about her in appetence?

Sending lots of healing and appy vines.

 

[HWright]

Hi Sina.

I've been AWOL the past few days and missed Azalea's rapid decline and surgery. I'm so glad she came through it well and is now starting to eat a bit on her own and be more social. I suspect all the discomfort she had been in, coupled with the trauma and pain of surgery contributed to her slow recovery from the anesthesia.

I remember going through a lot of the same emotions following both of Cinco's enucleation surgeries. In the end, though, he was so much better off, once he'd recovered from the surgery itself. It was all worth it. I pray the same will be true for Azalea.

As for our sweet Sootie, what a naughty kitty! Causing Mama extra stress when she's so worried about your sister!

I know the low numbers are a bit concerning, but as others have said, she can't hypo with no insulin. Possibly the fact that she's not eating a lot is contributing to the numbers drop?

Some of the veterans have discussed Sootie's situation, and we pretty much agree she's basically on a trial already. If I'm reading her SS correctly, her last dose was .1 at PMPS on 11/28. She's been all green since 12/9 PMBG, so I'd call this day 8 of the trial.

Just in case no one has given you the official OTJ Trial instructions, here they are:

Start the trial on the next green pre shot.

If she is green at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time; just feed small meals and go about your day. If she is blue at your normal "PS", feed a small meal and test again after about 3 or 4 hours. If her number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!

Post every day so we can monitor your progress and see if any tweaks are needed. She may have a sporadic blue number. Don't panic but post before you decide whether to shoot so we can have a discussion.

After 14 days of no insulin, we have a party!!

Sometimes the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support in the form of resuming insulin. It's not the end of the world if that happens; we just give her the support needed. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to take our time to get that than to rush into remission just to have it fail later on.

Good luck with the trial!!!

Once she is through the trial successfully, you enter a new phase. Your cat is still diabetic but has now become diet-controlled. Continue feeding low carb food in the manner successful for your kitty. If you decide to change her feeding schedule, let your meter be your guide to the best times to feed. Avoid medications with sugar in them and steroid medications unless they are medically essential. Continue testing blood glucose weekly for the first month and then monthly forever. It's a good idea to weigh her monthly. Weight should remain stable. If she seems "off" or sick, or is showing signs of diabetes (excessive drinking, eating, urinating, weight loss), test her blood glucose right away. Keep the teeth and gums clean and healthy; dental issues can bring a cat out of remission. If you see rising blood glucose numbers, it's time for a visit to the vet!

Regarding feeding while wearing a cone, our OV told us emphatically to NOT remove the collar. I experimented with a bunch of different dishes to find one that Cinco could reach with the cone on (being a bigger cat, he had a bigger cone and it hit the floor and kept him from getting his face into his dish). The best one I found was this. I did have to replace the actual dish with a shallower one like this. He could get the cone around it and reach the food.

Sending loads of healing vines for Azalea, and appy vines for both your babies.

Thank you Tricia! We go with the flow and your guidance and of all in LL!

@Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey here's what I replied but wound up in quote thread. So much for my technological skills! Sorry 'bout that!

Thank you Tricia! We go with the flow and your guidance and of all in LL!

Wonderful news about Sootie and I didn't realize it had been that many days that he hasn't had the juice! Yeah, party soon!

Glad to hear that Azalea is coming out of the fort some but not eating well is a concern and maybe it is post surgery but she does have to eat. Have you tried baby food? Also, the vet told me to not take the cone off of him for 10 days but I did take it off while he ate so he could get to his food better. Could that be deterring her?

What has the vet said about her in appetence?

Sending lots of healing and appy vines.

View attachment 24924

Hi Bobbie, and And thanks.
Re your azalea questions:
Absolutely food the biggie priority in total balance. Now that the anesthesia has begun to wear off and her mouth is working again, we're getting there. Big turnaround this morning is that she, after about 2ml syringed liver shake, lapped up the rest : almost 1/4 cup of it on her own. The 'on her own' being the biggie. She then nixed the baby fud slurry, maybe full at the moment.

Yes I take the cone off, too, for eating/feeding. OV said should be on for two weeks but use judgement, ok to have it off for feeding and when in room with her.

With three vets on board: I wish they'd all be in sync. But one thing for sure: the OV, reg vet and homeopathic vet have a better synergy and care of azalea as an individual, also in sharing info etc than Sootie's gi specialist has been lately!!

 

[HWright]

@Gussie's mom. Les! EZ hasn't asked HH for techno help lately but EZ is stumped! How do you print out a thread post? I'm trying to print Tricia's post with all her super info about Otj guidelines for Sootie!

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

@Gussie's mom. Les! EZ hasn't asked HH for techno help lately but EZ is stumped! How do you print out a thread post? I'm trying to print Tricia's post with all her super info about Otj guidelines for Sootie!

Hello E.D.
I just copy cut and paste into whatever word processing/notes ap/program I have. Then print! There may be a more efficient way but that is what was easiest for me being tech challenged!
H.H.

 

[HWright]

Hello HH, sounds good and thank you. I did try that method, seemed logical to me, too. Maybe it's my cell phone that gets quirky about when it makes the cut copy paste bubble. We shall persevere!!! Thank you!, ED

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

Sina, if it'd be easier, you can PM me your email address and I will send it to you, either in the body of the email or as an attachment (or both). That might make it easier to print.

 

[HWright]

Thanks, Tricia will do. I'm pretty much at the bottom of the barrel these days in techno ease.