12/17 oj pmps 333, +1 325, +3 146, +4 162, +5 144

Luxe

Luxe

Member Since 2020
Yesterdayyyyy
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/12-16-oj-amps-high-4-5-294-pmps-409.240119/


So my overnight got canceled and i just got home. My mom scanned him for me a few times tonight. Seems like even with the reduced dose of 2.5 hes still shooting blues! I have tried spacing his food out more during the first few hrs of shot times so maybe thats helping. Or maybe he's finally adjusting to the insulin??? Either way im happy to see some blues there
 
That’s good to see the blue numbers.
Are you testing for ketones every day still?
It’s really important still, especially now that you have reduced the insulin dose.
 
I havent been able to catch him using the box the last couple days. But he's super active and eating a lot so im sure he's good still.
 
An easy way to catch urine is to set up another litter box - use a clean plastic liner without litter...and make the regular litter box unavailable...you'll have to time this carefully and only leave it there long enough to capture the urine - otherwise you'll have a not so pleasant offering on the liner as well...I've been able to capture that urine and test it that way - then put that box away until next time - it works for Luci. Just a suggestion :)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
That’s good to see the blue numbers.
Are you testing for ketones every day still?
It’s really important still, especially now that you have reduced the insulin dose.
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I just woke up and scanned him. He must've bounced again because it looks like he went really low again an hour after i went to sleep and now its just saying too high
 

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Sue and Luci said:
An easy way to catch urine is to set up another litter box - use a clean plastic liner without litter...and make the regular litter box unavailable...you'll have to time this carefully and only leave it there long enough to capture the urine - otherwise you'll have a not so pleasant offering on the liner as well...I've been able to capture that urine and test it that way - then put that box away until next time - it works for Luci. Just a suggestion :)
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I definitely wouldnt be able to do that. We have an open floor plan house and only 2 of our rooms have doors(aside from my one bathroom) and we use those doors to keep different groups of cats separated because they either would fight to the death or i have fosters. The floor he's on only has the door for the bathroom where we keep the litter box and theres no way my parents would allow a litter box in the main part of the house
 
I would give him a snack around +4 to +5 as it looks like the nadir (lowest point) is around that time.
If you can’t test around then I would definitely give him a snack before going to sleep.
Keep trying to get a urine test to test for ketones. It’s good to know he’s super active and hungry.
You are doing a good job keeping him well.

I would put in the remarks column of the SS that he dropped lower when you were asleep, according to the printout, so that we know how low he possibly went when we check the SS
 
My mom tried to give him some food last night around 1am but he was just sleepy. My job has me working crazy different hours and i wasnt able to give him his shot at his normal time, i had to give it almost 2hrs earlier last night so im not sure if that had anything to do with it dipping either. Now today im going to have to give his shot an hour later than usual but im going to see if i can cut out of work earlier so i can get his today shot at his normal time
 
Luxe said:
@Bron and Sheba (GA) i got his ketones today. I think negative?? The strip ended up being like a weird in between color so maybe the strip itself was tinted.
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Luxe said:
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Oops forgot to add the picture
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That looks negative to me. It is often difficult to see if it’s negative because the colour isn’t exactly the same as the negative on the bottle. Well done getting the result. Can you put it in the SS remarks column please?


Luxe said:
My mom tried to give him some food last night around 1am but he was just sleepy. My job has me working crazy different hours and i wasnt able to give him his shot at his normal time, i had to give it almost 2hrs earlier last night so im not sure if that had anything to do with it dipping either. Now today im going to have to give his shot an hour later than usual but im going to see if i can cut out of work earlier so i can get his today shot at his normal time
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if you get test and get 75, always try and get another one in to see if the BG is on the rise. Was that when your Mom tried to feed him? If he’s too sleepy, try and wake him to make sure he eats. A 75 needs a low carb snack.
Two hours early for insulin dose is like giving an increase in dose so may have contributed to the lower numbers.. can you put in the remarks column what time and when you gave the earlier dose please as it helps us to see things like that when we look at the SS, which we always do if helping with dosing or answering a question about the BG. Thanks
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
That looks negative to me. It is often difficult to see if it’s negative because the colour isn’t exactly the same as the negative on the bottle. Well done getting the result. Can you put it in the SS remarks column please?


if you get test and get 75, always try and get another one in to see if the BG is on the rise. Was that when your Mom tried to feed him? If he’s too sleepy, try and wake him to make sure he eats. A 75 needs a low carb snack.
Two hours early for insulin dose is like giving an increase in dose so may have contributed to the lower numbers.. can you put in the remarks column what time and when you gave the earlier dose please as it helps us to see things like that when we look at the SS, which we always do if helping with dosing or answering a question about the BG. Thanks
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I added to the ss comments. I didnt want to say negative for the ketones until i got a second opinion. I did read online though that you might get more of a greyish color like i did if the strips were old. I only have a handful of strips left so i'll buy a new bottle to be on the safe side. Usually it stays that beige color so i was like i think its negative.
And yes it was. I had left her my phone and asked her to scan him a few times for me while i was at work and if it went below 100 to give him a snack. We're having a very new york cold spell right now and he was in bed against the heater and was having none of getting up. The only other thing i could think of was if him bouncing overnight seems to be the trend and he's not doing it during the day, should i give a medium carb food with his pm shot? Or just keep up what im doing and as his body adjusts the bounces will be less drastic?
 
Luxe said:
The only other thing i could think of was if him bouncing overnight seems to be the trend and he's not doing it during the day, should i give a medium carb food with his pm shot? Or just keep up what im doing and as his body adjusts the bounces will be less drastic?
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Not quite sure what you mean.
 
To try and avoid bouncing. Would a higher carb food at shot time keep him from diving so low overnight leading him to bounce up into the blacks. Im not understanding why he only seems to have huge dips and spikes overnight. Is it because he's usually sleeping and less active?
I also on the other hand though read bouncing is a good sign and should decrease over time. So should i just keep giving him low carb food at night and let him bounce so long as he doesnt reach dangerous numbers? With his shot times i usually fall asleep around his +2 or +3 and that leaves me 4-5hrs to sleep before i have to work so i usually cant stay up later than that to check him. I try and get a +7 or +8 if he's sleeping somewhere i can get to him but thats not always the case
 
Luxe said:
To try and avoid bouncing. Would a higher carb food at shot time keep him from diving so low overnight leading him to bounce up into the blacks. Im not understanding why he only seems to have huge dips and spikes overnight. Is it because he's usually sleeping and less active?
I also on the other hand though read bouncing is a good sign and should decrease over time. So should i just keep giving him low carb food at night and let him bounce so long as he doesnt reach dangerous numbers? With his shot times i usually fall asleep around his +2 or +3 and that leaves me 4-5hrs to sleep before i have to work so i usually cant stay up later than that to check him. I try and get a +7 or +8 if he's sleeping somewhere i can get to him but thats not always the case
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Bouncing is caused by dropping too fast, dropping too low, or dropping lower than the cat is used to. So to address bouncing......you need to see what it is that your kitty is doing and try and stop it by ‘feeding the curve’ and trying to stop what is causing the bouncing.

Usually a drop of more than 75 to 100 points in an hour will trigger a bounce, and so will dropping into green numbers if your kitty has not seen any green numbers for a while which most newly diagnosed diabetic kitties have not seen.
Once the bounce had been triggered you can’t do anything about it but wait it out and learn from it.
Looking at OJ’s SS you can see he is bouncing from the green numbers up into black numbers and in several of the cycles he is dropping more than 100 points around +2 or +3 or +4. So he is bouncing for two reasons.
So to try and stop this I would start by trialling feeding some low carb food at +1 to see if you can slow the drop. If he is still dropping feed some more low carb at +2 to try and ease him down the drop. See how that goes for a few days and see if it helps. It is a matter of trial and error. My Sheba was a real diver and bouncer and I had some success with feeding the curve. It takes time and patience though.

I can see on the SS that he has dropped about 120 points@1.5
Try and feed him some low carb and see how you go. Keep the high carb for the low numbers.
 
Luxe said:
i had to give it almost 2hrs earlier last night so im not sure if that had anything to do with it dipping either.
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Shooting two hours early absolutely would be the reason he dropped so much. Shooting that much early acts like an increase and you may not have seen that green otherwise. On the spreadsheet for last night, in the PMPS cell could you put 333@+10. That gives us a quicker clue that you shot that much earlier.

Note that fast drops can also cause bounces. I found those kind of bounces worse than the ones from going lower than Neko was used to. Finding a time and carbs of feed to prevent those drops will help. Looks like OJ often drops hard around +2. Maybe a mini meal around +1 or +1.5 (when you can), will slow those drops.
 
Okay thanks all. I've been feeding him at +1 or +2. Usually half a can of fancy feast. When i check him again in 10minutes i'll give him a small snack and see where he's at. I know if my vet sees more bouncing she's going to ask me to reduce his dose again which i will probably agree to to make her happy but not actually do it because i feel like a lower dose isnt exactly what he needs. Its more like i have to see what pattern of food and times works for him
 
Reducing the dose does not help with bouncing. Getting cats used to normal blood sugar values, by spending time in those numbers, or feeding to reduce drops are what reduces bouncing.

By reducing to 2.5 units, he is now seeing “Hi” values, that he wasn’t seeing on a higher dose. Going down in dose is the wrong direction.
 
@Bron and Sheba (GA) @Wendy&Neko so i checked at 2.5 and he had dropped another 100 so i gave him half a can of fancy feast and checked at 3.5 and he only dropped a few numbers. Just gave him a morning scan and looked like an hour later the lowest he went tonight was 160 so the food def kept him from dropping really low really fast. However 4hrs later he's already back up to too high for the libre to read
 
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