12/17 Gizmo PMPS 169, +1=177, +2=134, +3=123, +4=135, +5=156

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LizzieInTexas

LizzieInTexas

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12/16 thread

AMPS 274

Added 1/8 teaspoon SEB to this mornings food - he is going but it is hard. I found a couple of dingleberry's in the upstairs hallway. This is NOT abnormal for him. He has always had hard poo. Maybe it will help him a bit.

rather hard poo than the alternative :p

Have a happy Caturday!
 
+1 295

Flat yellows - does that mean he is in for a drop (next cycle maybe)? Still trying to learn how to read numbers.
 
Good Morning Lizzie ~ yes a flat yellow cycle can indicate that a drop is going to occur in the next cycle or two.

As far as the hard poop, have you ever tried a 1 tsp of pure pumpkin? I used to give it to Bubba twice a day in his food to help him with that. I didn't know that the SEB helped with constipation; I thought it was only good for diarrhea. Maybe you know something I don't know.

Have a good day and hope he slides down for you.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
As far as the hard poop, have you ever tried a 1 tsp of pure pumpkin? I used to give it to Bubba twice a day in his food to help him with that. I didn't know that the SEB helped with constipation; I thought it was only good for diarrhea. Maybe you know something I don't know.
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Never tried pumpkin. I may. Lately this issue hasn't been a factor. He has even been leaving his deposits in the LB which has been a pleasant surprise :)

Info on SEB (I kinda view it like pepto for cats - lol)
Scroll down a bit on the page
http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_treatments.htm

The natural remedy most commonly used for CKD cats is slippery elm bark powder (ulmus rubra or ulmus fulva). Slippery elm bark is a herbal remedy used for most kinds of digestive or intestinal problems - it can be used for nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea or constipation. As a side effect it can also improve coat dryness and dandruff.

Slippery elm bark is a demulcent, which means it soothes the stomach lining and intestinal walls and reduces irritation. This can be particularly useful in combating the nausea and excess stomach acid which many CKD cats experience. You will usually see an improvement within a day or two of starting slippery elm bark.
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Never tried pumpkin. I may. Lately this issue hasn't been a factor. He has even been leaving his deposits in the LB which has been a pleasant surprise :)

Info on SEB (I kinda view it like pepto for cats - lol)
Scroll down a bit on the page
http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_treatments.htm

The natural remedy most commonly used for CKD cats is slippery elm bark powder (ulmus rubra or ulmus fulva). Slippery elm bark is a herbal remedy used for most kinds of digestive or intestinal problems - it can be used for nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea or constipation. As a side effect it can also improve coat dryness and dandruff.

Slippery elm bark is a demulcent, which means it soothes the stomach lining and intestinal walls and reduces irritation. This can be particularly useful in combating the nausea and excess stomach acid which many CKD cats experience. You will usually see an improvement within a day or two of starting slippery elm bark.
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Thanks for that Lizzie! I learned something new! Hope it works magic on Gizmo. Do you just give it as needed or a maintenance dose?
 
+3 227

Ok, I have a rant. Cat related but not Gizmo.

My MIL has a tabby (med hair) that is sick. She took him to the vets earlier this week and the vet basically told her that the cat had kidney disease and heart failure. Nothing they could do. Take her home to die. :(:banghead:

Stefi is 16 yo. MIL regularly takes to the vet. Cat had dental work done earlier this year(?) - so she takes good care of her. At the vets they had to give Stefi oxygen because she got so stressed that she was in distress.

Info that I have gotten 2nd hand is - Stefi will only walk a couple of steps and then fall over. Weak back legs. Still eating but minimal. I don't know if they gave fluids when she was at the vets but I suspect not. I have asked her to get the lab results and send them to me via e-mail and I would look at them and then get her set up with an account here and post for her and get Stephi's labs on google docs or on my drive account so others can look at them.

My gut says low potassium and dehydration but that is just a guess based on the description.

MIL is near 80 but computer savvy to a degree but limited on her full understanding. Hubby talked with her this morning and she is very stressed and upset (understandably). MIL said that she didn't think vet office would give her the lab results and (via hubby) I told her that she needed to demand them. That she paid for them for HER cat and they belonged to her. We will see. I told her that it was BS the way the vet office was treating her and Stefi and that I would find another vets. She has taken Stefi to an emergency hospital once and I will suggest that once I have the results and know better what is going on. I think it is completely irresponsible for the vet to do NOTHING. IMO if it is really that hopeless (which I don't think it is) that he should have been up front with MIL and told her that the suffering needed to end (again - just my opinion).

What say you? I will post the labs as soon as I have them (I have a hair appt @ 10am but should be home around noon).
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Do you just give it as needed or a maintenance dose?
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Yes. Only as I think he needs it. If he acts like his tummy is not feeling good or poo issues. I will usually give 2-3 times staggered over 2-3 days) and then discontinue until he needs it again. Usually I give AM (like this morning) then again tonight (PM) and maybe tomorrow once.
 
Woodsywife said:
Gizmo there is room for improvement here. I hope you find some help for your MIL kitty. It's terrible vets treat people that way.
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I agree. When should I do the dose increase? I am thinking tomorrow AM?

Thanks for the thoughts on Stefi. I feel bad for MIL but I can't see letting kitties suffer either. I don't believe the situation is hopeless just yet.

MIL called vet and they can't find the lab results. :banghead:
 
The vet "can't find" lab results???? If they really can't find them, that office should be closed down. If the have them but won't release them, that office should be clsoed down! I agree with the others...I would take Stefi to the ER where there should be competent care! Sending along prayers for your MIL and Stefi...
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
The vet "can't find" lab results???? If they really can't find them, that office should be closed down. If the have them but won't release them, that office should be clsoed down! I agree with the others...I would take Stefi to the ER where there should be competent care! Sending along prayers for your MIL and Stefi...
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They told her that labs hadn't been done. She read them off the line items from the receipt and they (whoever she was talking to) - said, "oh, yes, those are labs, let me see if I can find them and if I do I will e-mail them!":banghead:

MIL is very passive so she just takes things at face value. Hubby is on his way there right now. He and his brother are putting up plastic to protect her plants from the freeze coming tonight. I told him that he may need to intervene and get this info. I told him he may need to haul MIL and Stefi to the ER. We will see. I also sent some potassium powder with him - but told him to not give it to MIL until we knew what was going on. Told him to hide it somewhere and if it is needed we will tell her where it is (LOL). I figure it was better she had it on hand than us trying to get it back across town later. No harm, no foul.

The ER she has taken Stefi to in the past is very, very good. they were on one of the cable channels (same one as Dr. Pol, etc.). It is Gulf Coast Veterinarian Specialists (http://www.gcvs.com/). I really wish I could just get her to take Stefi there now - but I know how expensive it is and she is on a limited income. MIL will take her if warranted though.

ETA - I would really like her to get the lab results first. #1-so I (we) can look at them and #2 to have so she can take them with her to GCVS.
 
I am so happy your hubby is on the way and can try to get some more information about this situation. Sending lots of vines to Stefi and I hope she can get the help she needs. :bighug::bighug:
 
Doodles & Karen said:
No blood work won't show anything on heart failure or CHF. An x-ray might if it's very apparent there is fluid/ pulmonary edema. My vet totally missed it for Doodles.
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Thanks - well that tells me a lot! I seriously doubt that an xray was done (MIL would have mentioned, I am sure). How was it finally diagnosed?

+5 174

Off to get hair cut and colored. I am taking my tablet and if I receive the labs I will attempt to get them saved to Google drive and post a link.
 
Osha said:
I am so happy your hubby is on the way and can try to get some more information about this situation. Sending lots of vines to Stefi and I hope she can get the help she needs. :bighug::bighug:
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It is so, so sad - MIL told hubby (her son) last night on the phone. "My husband died in the living room, my mom died in the spare bedroom and now my cat is going to die in my bedroom". :(
 
LizzieInTexas said:
It is so, so sad - MIL told hubby (her son) last night on the phone. "My husband died in the living room, my mom died in the spare bedroom and now my cat is going to die in my bedroom". :(
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:(:(:(:( Thank heavens your hubby is going to help. Hang in there Stefi, help is on the way!
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Thanks - well that tells me a lot! I seriously doubt that an xray was done (MIL would have mentioned, I am sure). How was it finally diagnosed?
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So a high CPK on the BW might be an indicator but that can be caused during stress of the blood draw itself.

I finally took Doodles to the cardiologist and had an eco cardiogram done. He wasn't eating much, hiding under the bed but it was the loss of regulation overnight and his bg's weren't changing regardless of dose. (look at the end of Jan. to March 16th on his SS) Took a month & 1/2 and multiple vets/tests.
 
stefi1.jpg
stefi2.jpg
 
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LizzieInTexas said:
Bun and Cre high but is it that bad? Any indication of heart issue that you can see?
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The images are hard to read. I don't even see potassium listed. Kidneys are not great but pretty sure it's early to mid stage kidney failure.

What is the CPK or CK? As mentioned there is no real way to tell if there are heart issues from blood work. Many times there are zero symptoms until it's too late.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
The images are hard to read. I don't even see potassium listed. Kidneys are not great but pretty sure it's early to mid stage kidney failure.

What is the CPK or CK? As mentioned there is no real way to tell if there are heart issues from blood work. Many times there are zero symptoms until it's too late.
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Potassium is listed as "K+" it shows 3.1 with range 3.7-5.8 mmol/L

To me it looks like these labs were run in house at the vets. I agree the kidneys aren't great but not on deaths door "yet".

I e-mailed her and asked why vet thought heart failure. Waiting for reply.
 
here is more info from MIL
Little more info:
Vet told me they were going to give her test to find out if she had heart problems and then he came back and said she did.

1 Cbc Only (IN HOUSE)
1 Snap NT BNP Feline

2 x-Ray 12 X 16 Digital
1 Abaxis Health with lytes
0.25 Oxygen Therapy/hour

Then Medical Exam/Office Visit and 10 Gabapentin 100 mg Capsule

######################

The Gabapentin is for pain (back hind legs) and a sedative.

#####################

She is on her little pad in my bedroom.
As she was going down I noticed her front leg giving way a little.

Noticed that she was shaking a bit.
 
So sorry to hear this about your MIL's kitty. The x-rays MAY have shown an enlarged heart and/or fluid on the lungs. Uncle's little brother had heart disease so I know a bit about it but will defer to others for any treatment opinions. Maybe there is still some hope.
 
I can't read the images of the labs so can't comment on them. I agree on trying to get MIL's cat to ER, or at least an internal medicine vet or cardio vet if she can. Of course, that usually means a referral from her regular vet - which may be tricky. Neko had both kidney disease and CHF, for many months. It can be a tricky balancing act and fluids should only be added if a cardiologist agrees with it. Both times Neko had a heart crisis, fluids were the cause. With proper treatment, heart/kidney cats can have good quality of life for quite a while. But it is all about balance needs of mulitple organs which is why an IM vet is a good idea. Weak legs can also be a symptom of heart disease. I would only give potassium under advice of a vet. Blood work needs to be tested shortly after starting potassium. Gabapentin can cause drowsiness.

Keep on sliding down Gizmo.
 
More info from MIL:

She is eating and drinking. She drank water at 1 am., 4:20 a.m. and 6:24 this morning - also at 8 when I took her some water to her (in her pad). She ate this morning, just a while ago, and also in between.The vet gave me literature on Hypertropic Cardiomyopathy, Chronic Kidney Disease, and Heart Failure. I don't think there would be any more info he could give me because he did say at some point that info was in literature he had given me. Some of info as follows:
Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy is a type of heart disease in which the heart muscle becomes unnecessarily and excessively thickened. .....unnecessary and unwanted thickening of the heart's walls makes the walls rigid and unable to move properly, and crowds out the space normally reserved for blood limiting the heart's ability to sufficiently fill and pump effectively. Overtime if cardiac hypertropy continues to worsen the bod's way of controlling this problem becomes inadequate, the circulation can be compromised and as a result part of the fluid portion of blood seeps into surrounding tissues and it can flood the lungs, a potentially serious condition called congestive heart failure.

Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy usually produces immediate, severe limping or paralysis of the hind limbs because the blood clot commonly travels to the arteries that supply the back legs.On kidneys you have lethargy, loss of appetite, and nausea. Failure to produce kidney hormoses can result in high blood pressure.She is on her pad - I honestly don't think she is doing good. I am supposed to massage her hind legs 3 times/day and when I try she complaints and moves her hind leg, gets off me (I'm usually sitting down to better handle her) and walks away.
 
Good to hear MIL's cat is walking. Neko had mild HCM for about three years, probably as a result of her acromegaly, but it's also a trait associated with Maine Coons and a few other breeds. It's only when the HCM gets worse that the blood clots are a concern. Neko was on blood thinners (Plavix) to reduce the chance of blood clots. I had a previous cat pass from a thrombolembolism (blood clot to the arteries to the hind leg). In that case, he flopped over and could not use the hind legs at all. They were cold to the touch. It's very painful. Sounds like Stefi isn't there yet.

Lethargy, loss of appetite and nausea are also side effects of heart disease. Which makes treating the source in a kidney/heart cat difficult. You can only treat the symptoms. If she can treat nausea, that may improve her appetite. But it's good that she's eating now.
 
X-rays are the best way to show congestive heart failure. A month ago, I spent a lot of time look at Neko's heart X-rays when she was in critical care.:( The fluid (or air) around the heart and lungs can push them aside and it's quite obvious via X-ray.

One other simple thing MIL I can do is count her resting respiration rate or RR. When Stefi is sleeping or relaxed, count the number of complete breaths she makes in a minute. A complete breath is an in and out cycle. Ideally, that number would be below 30. RR is a good indication of heart stress.
 
Thank you all for your input. I think Stefi is having a panc flare and that is why she is not doing so well (JMO). Anyway, I am going to encourage MIL to get a 2nd option with the specialists. I will keep you updated.

+11 180
 
LizzieInTexas said:
PMPS 169
Oh boy! Shot with numbers falling!

History:
AMPS 274, +1=295, +3=227, +4=172, +5=174, +9=197, +11=180
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Looks like Osha and Gizmo are having fun hanging out together again tonight.

Gizmo, if Osha decides to do any shark hunting, I want you to turn around and head closer to shore to call for help. Do not, I repeat, Do not follow Osha if she decides to go shark hunting.
Have fun and keep each other safe tonight kitties! :cat:
 
Osha said:
Looks like Osha and Gizmo are having fun hanging out together again tonight.

Gizmo, if Osha decides to do any shark hunting, I want you to turn around and head closer to shore to call for help. Do not, I repeat, Do not follow Osha if she decides to go shark hunting.
Have fun and keep each other safe tonight kitties! :cat:
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Lol. PJ party? Dang it. I didn't get a nap today either. Was trying to research for MIL'S cat.
 
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