12/13 Basic Curve Day and diet change possibly

[Basic's Mom]

Previous convo
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/extreme-unexpected-high-bg.284489/#post-3132194

I’m so glad! Feeding after nadir can definitely shorten the duration of the insulin and cause numbers to rise more quickly than they otherwise would. Also helps to stabilize BG in general and helps to prevent steep drops in those cats who tend to dive, which doesn’t tend to be as much of a problem with Lantus or the other depot insulins, but I definitely have seen it and have had to help people who have diving kitties on Lantus.

I was giving him small bits between large feedings every six hours. I feel like the schedule you broke down will truly help his BG. I am currently struggling with what to do for food. Dr. Elsey's is causing digestive problems for them both, my nondiabetic cat more so than Base. They only get ¼ C of that a day. I tried cutting out kibble in its entirety for over a month. Base refused to eat for 24 hours after I got lower than ¼ C. I purchased Dr Elsey's because of this. He refuses all the "good" canned food. Refuses FF now, but I think that's because he was eating after being so sick. So, I'm only left with friskies pate. I just want to make a change for them, if that makes sense.

I'm in the process of searching our site for info on making their food. I was too overwhelmed in the beginning. With what I'm spending on their food currently, making high quality food is absolutely achievable.

I'm just a little torn with if I should wait for his new vet appointment on 1/8 or make the switch.

I'm very nervous because he hasn't had a full panel blood work done since diagnosis. His old vet only checked a few things the last time and he was due for a senior panel the day I decided the vet and office simply wouldn't work for us.

Can you let me know if you would wait for his blood work or proceed with making the change?

I already have the novel protein which I offered him a taste today. He ate a very small piece of raw venison and he loved it. I wanted to see how he responded to it and I was shocked.

It looks like Basic is a bit of a bouncy kitty isn’t he? You are doing an amazing job of testing, Sybil. Also, I see he’s having a flat yellow cycle today which may mean an “active cycle” tonight, so keep an eye on him tonight.

He is a bouncer and it is maddening sometimes trying to figure out what he is doing. I also can't sleep without knowing what is happening with his BG throughout the night and probably drive him crazy. In fact, I read the 'letter from your sugar kitty' from this forum and bawled. I needed to read it though. I will keep an eye throughout the night for sure.

He is due for a curve today and I've done one. Is today a bad fay for that? I reviewed his numbers on this dose and his nadirs still aren't where they need to be. Therefore, I proceeded with his curve today.

Thank you so much for your kind words. It means a lot.

I started a new thread for others to Chime in, if they want and so I don't hijack Corky's post.

Thanks again @Suzanne & Darcy

 

[Basic's Mom]

Please look at reply #13 of this thread from the catsite.
https://thecatsite.com/threads/dr-elseys-formula-change.459062/

This concerns me. If this food cost what it does, these things shouldn't be an issue.

I contacted Dr. Elsey's and they have ZERO plans to return to the old formula.

I'm not sure if the issues being discussed are what are causing my cats to have a negative reaction to the food, but I'm stuck with $100 in kibble they can't eat.

 

[Basic's Mom]

Message for Sybil regarding Basic: it looks like you have held this dose long enough for SLGS and you have wiggle room to do a .25 increase because he is having blue nadirs (and higher blue nadirs at that.)

Okay. Makes sense.

I would go ahead with the food transition that you would like to do; I would not wait until January 8. It will be good to see if basic has good normal Bloodwork on January 8. His last labs were when he was sick and had high liver values so I would expect the new labs to be much better if he seems to be feeling better and eating well. My cat had DKA and hepatic lipidosis as well. I noticed Basic had hepatic lipidosis. We had a feeding tube as well. It saved his life.

All of his liver levels were back to great numbers after tube was removed. She didn't test for everything like I assumed though and there were levels outside of his liver that I expressed concern with. I was told because he was so hard to pill, different supplements to help with my different concerns would do more harm than good. I initially agreed, but changed my mind once I read up on things AND learned how to pill my cat properly. She wouldn't budge though. I also couldn't ever get his results without being treating like a I was a problem. I have to have this info though. All of it means something to me and could be a key bit of info to help my cat. I have some of his medical records now. In his notes about his liver, she states she suggested that I get a supplement. That NEVER happened, the opposite occured. She also states that before Xray (Couldn't be done for a few days, waiting for certified individual) and tube placed, she informed me to take him to the er. That NEVER happened. I was furious in their office, on the day his xray was scheduled, that my cat was diagnosed on 9/22 and truly wasn't consuming food until his tube was placed 10/4. That is 12 days that my cat suffered. In fact, it was longer because the reason he was diagnosed is because we went to the vet because he wasn't eating properly. I kept promising him every time we got in the car someone was going to help him and it took 12 days for him to get relief. She argued with me about pain meds when we thought he had pancreatitis. Who cares if he tested negative for it. He is a cat. He isn’t going to become an addict. She argued with me about home testing every time I saw her and told me I was affecting my relationship with him. Every time i went to the office, spoke on the phone, or we emailed this was stated. It has been a complete nightmare. Argued about switching his antinausea to ondansetron and then argued about the dosing because he was being underdosed. His pill bottle still says the wrong dose amount. She stated the med was being prescribed for his ideal weight. Whatttt? Why? That's not his actual weight. Everyone around me looking at me like I'm insane for placing a feed tube in my cat. I knew he would die without it. And then it clogged every single time I used it. No matter what I did. So, just like everyone else here, this has been anything but easy for us. I will start getting everything I need to start this transition. Both knowledge and supplies.

My cats will get diarrhea with the dry Dr. Elsey’s chicken if I give them much of it or too often. I always assumed it’s because they aren’t used to much kibble. I don’t currently have any diabetic cats, but I feed LC (mostly Weruva BFF pate lovers) wet food because of the low phosphorus which is easy on the kidneys as well as being LC.

phosphorus is something I'm concerned about and for whatever reason, his levels don't appear to have ever been checked.

I assumed their GI issues was because it is high in animal protein which they haven't been used to.

Whatever the reason, it scares me and I'm not interested in using the food any longer. I'm just very concerned they will be protesting food again. Basic's sister Moonshine, is a tiny calico. What she lacks for in size, she makes up for in attitude, which is fine by me. I don't want her getting diabetes too. And she loves the horrid HC kibble. I can't imagine doing everything with her that I did with Base. There is no way I could've held her hours against her will like I had to with Base and the constantly clogging e tube. And she doesn't love food enough to swayed by treats. I had her tested immediately after I got Basic somewhat thriving and she is good. I would like to keep it that way though.

Thanks for your time today. I'm going to revisit some of my first post, where people provided me info on making my own food.

 

[Basic's Mom]

@Suzanne & Darcy

You don't have to read my book. If you do, thanks. No need for a reply unless you feel I need to know something further.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

It's great he loved the venison. If you want to make your own food, there are a few options. One is to get a premix. Foodfurlife's EZComplete is one option, just add the premix and water. I used to make about two weeks worth of food in advance, and freeze the rest is small tubs that held about a day's worth of food. Alnutrin is another option, founded I believe, from someone who was on FDMB. Catinfo has a make on making your own food too.

His curve day looks pretty flat and it also looks like he could use a 0.25 unit increase. Though I might hold off until tomorrow on that. Sometimes flat yellow cycles give you a heads up that an active cycle is to follow. And sometimes it just means flat yellow.

 

[Basic's Mom]

It's great he loved the venison. If you want to make your own food, there are a few options. One is to get a premix. Foodfurlife's EZComplete is one option, just add the premix and water. I used to make about two weeks worth of food in advance, and freeze the rest is small tubs that held about a day's worth of food. Alnutrin is another option, founded I believe, from someone who was on FDMB. Catinfo has a make on making your own food too.

His curve day looks pretty flat and it also looks like he could use a 0.25 unit increase. Though I might hold off until tomorrow on that. Sometimes flat yellow cycles give you a heads up that an active cycle is to follow. And sometimes it just means flat yellow.

I just sent @Diane Tyler's Mom a message about the Foodfurlife product. I also contacted them to inquire on a sample as they don't accept returns. I was reading the catinfo site recipes today. I just want to be very thorough in this switch. While, I'm sure anything is an improvement to his previous diet, I don't want to miss anything. I also need to fairly stubborn cats to cooperate with this transition. Wish me luck. I need it.

Yes, he is due for an increase today. That is why I did his curve. I will not increase his dose this evening, as you are the second person to mention this to me. If it is just a yellow flat day, we will be okay with an uneventful evening.

Thank you very much

 

[Basic's Mom]

And I was shocked that he loved the venison and wanted more. I'm not sure why I find it so bizarre that he would love raw, 100% natural, organic meat. It isn't like cats eat carbs and plant proteins in the wild.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Neko liked venison, but went absolutely bonkers for kangaroo. Like you see cats taking down deer and kangaroos (especially in North America).

 

[Wendy&Neko]

What did you want to know about FoodFurLife? I believe they do send out samples. We've got quite a few people here using their product.

 

[Basic's Mom]

Neko liked venison, but went absolutely bonkers for kangaroo. Like you see cats taking down deer and kangaroos (especially in North America).

I have deer meat in the freezer that has nothing mixed with it. From field, to butcher, to freezer. I had a lightbulb moment today when I pulled some meat out. Then, I tested it out and he LOVED it. If his love wears off, I'll try the kangaroo. I may get some to have variety. I don't want either of them to get bored of something that is the best for them.

What did you want to know about FoodFurLife? I believe they do send out samples. We've got quite a few people here using their product.

I mentioned wanted to make their food in my initial post to the group and his health kept declining. I put making it on the back burner.

I went back through all my first post and saw Diane had mentioned this product then. I went to their site to learn more and then learned of their return policy. They have a section that they discuss sending samples and list the email. I just asked her if it was as good/simple as it sounds. I also asked her if it provides everything the cat needs nutritionally or do additional supplements need to be incorporated.

You think I should just bite the bullet, and order the small bag? I have no idea how long it will take to get a sample and then my order, if they do like it.

 

[Basic's Mom]

Also, can you drop some links that will help me with this food transition, if we have them? I know we have the info on transitioning from dry to wet, but I don't see any on raw. It is fine if we don't. Just curious. I will definitely go very slow, just like with any food transition.

 

[Basic's Mom]

https://www.foodfurlife.com/slowly-and-properly-introduce-ezcomplete.html#/

I found this on FFL's site about transitioning, but I wanted to see if we have any discussions or write ups on it.

No biggie of we don't.

Thanks

 

[Wendy&Neko]

FoodFurLife is nutrionally complete, just meat, premix and water. I found it handy to have a small kitchen scale to measure amounts out, both for making it and making little containers for the freezer.

Neko also got lamb, elk, bison/buffalo, wild boar, rabbit. I have an exotic meat butcher near me, and the local raw pet food stores also carry plain meat options. Note, start with the cheap meats first, or they'll love only the expensive one.

There are a couple posts on the Think Tank forum:
Raw Feeding Senior Kitties
and
Home prepared diet of CRD cats

 

[Basic's Mom]

Thank you for those links and the heads up regarding starting with the less expensive meats. While it is frustrating to not be able to fully understand all that cats do, it is refreshing that they don't follow scripts.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Please look at reply #13 of this thread from the catsite.
https://thecatsite.com/threads/dr-elseys-formula-change.459062/

This concerns me. If this food cost what it does, these things shouldn't be an issue.

I contacted Dr. Elsey's and they have ZERO plans to return to the old formula.

I'm not sure if the issues being discussed are what are causing my cats to have a negative reaction to the food, but I'm stuck with $100 in kibble they can't eat.

Wow.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Okay. Makes sense.



All of his liver levels were back to great numbers after tube was removed. She didn't test for everything like I assumed though and there were levels outside of his liver that I expressed concern with. I was told because he was so hard to pill, different supplements to help with my different concerns would do more harm than good. I initially agreed, but changed my mind once I read up on things AND learned how to pill my cat properly. She wouldn't budge though. I also couldn't ever get his results without being treating like a I was a problem. I have to have this info though. All of it means something to me and could be a key bit of info to help my cat. I have some of his medical records now. In his notes about his liver, she states she suggested that I get a supplement. That NEVER happened, the opposite occured. She also states that before Xray (Couldn't be done for a few days, waiting for certified individual) and tube placed, she informed me to take him to the er. That NEVER happened. I was furious in their office, on the day his xray was scheduled, that my cat was diagnosed on 9/22 and truly wasn't consuming food until his tube was placed 10/4. That is 12 days that my cat suffered. In fact, it was longer because the reason he was diagnosed is because we went to the vet because he wasn't eating properly. I kept promising him every time we got in the car someone was going to help him and it took 12 days for him to get relief. She argued with me about pain meds when we thought he had pancreatitis. Who cares if he tested negative for it. He is a cat. He isn’t going to become an addict. She argued with me about home testing every time I saw her and told me I was affecting my relationship with him. Every time i went to the office, spoke on the phone, or we emailed this was stated. It has been a complete nightmare. Argued about switching his antinausea to ondansetron and then argued about the dosing because he was being underdosed. His pill bottle still says the wrong dose amount. She stated the med was being prescribed for his ideal weight. Whatttt? Why? That's not his actual weight. Everyone around me looking at me like I'm insane for placing a feed tube in my cat. I knew he would die without it. And then it clogged every single time I used it. No matter what I did. So, just like everyone else here, this has been anything but easy for us. I will start getting everything I need to start this transition. Both knowledge and supplies.


phosphorus is something I'm concerned about and for whatever reason, his levels don't appear to have ever been checked.

I assumed their GI issues was because it is high in animal protein which they haven't been used to.

Whatever the reason, it scares me and I'm not interested in using the food any longer. I'm just very concerned they will be protesting food again. Basic's sister Moonshine, is a tiny calico. What she lacks for in size, she makes up for in attitude, which is fine by me. I don't want her getting diabetes too. And she loves the horrid HC kibble. I can't imagine doing everything with her that I did with Base. There is no way I could've held her hours against her will like I had to with Base and the constantly clogging e tube. And she doesn't love food enough to swayed by treats. I had her tested immediately after I got Basic somewhat thriving and she is good. I would like to keep it that way though.

Thanks for your time today. I'm going to revisit some of my first post, where people provided me info on making my own food.

I’m certainly glad that you left that vet. I’m sorry for everything that you and Basic endured. He is lucky to be alive after that incompetence at every turn.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

So the new vet is the January appointment right? A completely new vet?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I just sent @Diane Tyler's Mom a message about the Foodfurlife product.

Yes she did PM me but I told her I have never used it

 

[Basic's Mom]

@Suzanne & Darcy
There is so much more. I have to let it go though. My baby is alive thankfully and i credit myself for it. His vet was anything but helpful, patient or kind.

Yes, completely different veterinarian. A moderator from this group recommended the location to me. While the vet, which is the owner of the veterinary hospital, is who they saw is actually retiring now. I am very hopeful that the vets she has hired will be more willing to listen to me and put my cat's health above their ego. That's all I'm looking for. It has to be a partnership and I haven't had that yet. I may not have approached everything with his previous vet in the best manner and when I was pissed about his lack of care, I made it know, NONE of that is a reason for anything have been handled how it was.

Thank you for listening and allow me a safe space to vent. I haven't had that. You and your energy are appreciated.

 

[Basic's Mom]

Sorry for the confusion. The information in my intro post was just copy and pasted. I assumed the I meant Diane personally.

Again, apologies for the confusion. I'm squared away now on the product and have placed an order. I'm hopeful it will work. I've also ordered a kitchen scale. Thanks everyone. Much appreciated.