12/12 Mookie AMPS 219... +5 138, +7 161, +11 306

Status
Not open for further replies.
Randa & Mookie

Randa & Mookie

Member Since 2011
Hi,
I haven't followed the protocol yet because we've just been collecting data. Mookie's +11 number this morning is only 89 and I'm not sure how to handle his AM shot, which is coming up in about 30 minutes. What to do?
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

I'm relatively new too, so can't really advice. This response will bump your question to the top of the list. Good luck!
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

Thanks, Linda. I'm starting to get anxious because this is the first time I haven't given Mookie a shot, and he's hungry. I don't know whether to feed or shoot or neither one. nailbite_smile
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

I'm not seeing a lot of folks online right now, hopefully more will check in during the lunch hour. Have you tested again?
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

Have you tested recently? You have not fed him have you? I would not recommend you shoot this number being relatively new. Please post any new numbers.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

Sorry, we were posting at the same time. You shot a 194 with the full dose. Will you be around to monitor, have HC? You need to be comfortable with what you are doing. I think you could probably shoot the full dose and get a +1 and +2 to see where he is headed. If that makes you uncomfortable you can reduce the dose, A BCS (big chicken s*it) does. What do you think?
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

He will probably bounce from the lower numbers, most do but, ECID. What are his number now, still going up?
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

Hi, Barbara,
Yes, I posted a question last night about shooting a full dose, but it was late and no one answered, so I deleted the message and went ahead with the shot. I haven't started tweaking his dose yet and don't want to do it without guidance, but I can do it and I can monitor.

I'm not sure what to do. Should I feed him, shoot full dose, and get +1 and +2? What should I expect his numbers to do?
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

They usually bounce from lower numbers is he still going up? I think you could probably shoot the full dose, you shot the full dose on a 194 according to your SS, if you are comfortable with that. If not, then you can reduce it but not shooting is not good. Do you have HC?
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

Yes I have FF with gravy in his hypo kit. And I can monitor throughout the day.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

Just tested @10:25 = 219. I'm thinking I'll feed now and drop the dose back to 1.25U. Sound ok?
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

...and thanks, Linda. We think he's beautiful, too. A Domestic Shorthair of Distinction. :smile:
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

Okay, please get a +1 and +2. He is a very pretty boy, love his markings. I'll check back before I leave (have a sick horse). Get some HC food. We use the HC to raise the numbers if they go low. Have you seenhttp://binkyspage.tripod.com/index.html

It's a learning process and takes a while to assimilate all the information. Hang in there. You could not be in better hands. We all have a few scary moments. As you gain confidence, you will be fine.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

Welcome to Lantus Land, another exciting entry! :YMHUG: Please get a +1 and a +2 to see where he is headed. I'll be around and can check back in.

Usually if we stall we shoot the full dose, but no harm done if you did a BCS. Mookie will probably just bounce a little higher. A late shot w/ Lantus acts like a reduction already because the overlap has been stretched out and some of the reserve in the shed has been used.

Tonight you should shoot the full dose (unless he has another drop) and shoot 12 hours from the time you actually shot this morning. I see from you SS that you have been trying to move Mookie to an earlier shot time. Back to square one I'm afraid.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

Morning!

FWIW - In concur with what the others have been saying this morning. You need to be comfortable with what you are shooting. I would monitor the numbers this morning - get a +1, +2 - they will let you know which way Mookie is going in terms of BG numbers. As Barbara said it is a learning process, every cat is different, and we learn what our will do as we go forward. Good luck this morning! And hang in there - is does get easier!

Feel free to post if there are concerns or questions.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie +11 89; Need advice on AM shot

Hi Mookie's mom....

Welcome to LL...I haven't been on your condo yet. What is your name?? You may have told others but I've been out of town and missed it.

I agree with Ann totally....you could easily have shot the full dose since you stalled but it is also about you being comfortable. One thing, though on this:

shoot 12 hours from the time you actually shot this morning
Click to expand...

You can start moving your time back in 15 minute increments each cycle or 30 mins once a day. For example, if you shot at 11 this morning, you could shoot at 10:45 tonight, 10:30 tomorrow morning, 10:15 tomorrow night and so on until you
get to the shot time you want. OR if you shot at 11 this morning, you can shoot at 11 tonight, 10:30 tomorrow night, 10 the next night, etc. until you get back to your desired shot time.

You're doing great and be sure and ask us any time you need help. Also, usually after your question is answered, we ask you change your subject line. So if you shot the 219, then you can just put the usual "12/12 Mookie AMPS 219" and go from there. The other thing is, it helps us get more eyes on your condo if we know you are stalling so next time you get a low PS, you might put "+11 89, STALL?" or something like that.

Have a great day!!!
 
12/12 Mookie AMPS 219

Hi, everyone,
Thank you for your supportive and encouraging responses. By way of introduction, here's my first post:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=57552

My name is Randa, as in 'Ronda'. I started out using the name Zoe (my first, beloved cat) as a screen name because as a rule I don't use my real name online when I don't know who I'm dealing with. But I feel comfortable here now, and I want to share our circumstances with all of you.

I wasn't ready to try the TR protocol until I understood more about FD and had more data on Mookie. I still don't fully understand it, but I know there's a pretty steep learning curve. This morning I thought I should decrease the dose a smidgen because I narrowed the 12-hour Lantus timeline, but it sounds like I should have stayed with the full 1.5U. I hope I didn't mess things up.

Initially my shot times were 11am and 11pm because I'm a night owl, but after spending time on the board I learned that 1) to maximize my ability to monitor Mookie I need plenty of time to check on him after his shots; and 2) to maximize my support on this board I need to have a dosing schedule more closely aligned with the rest of the LL community.

Time for our +1. Thanks again,

Randa and Mookie
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250

Randa:

Thanks....we are a pretty close-knit group so we appreciate you feeling comfortable enuff to share your name with us.

There is no harm in what you shot today. We were just giving you a tool for the future. I agree with others that Mookie was probably going to go up anyway just as a reaction to the low numbers; you "may" see him go
a little higher than he might have with a full dose shot late but he'll recover. Remember, too, he has to refill his shed now.

Yes....it is a steep learning curve and we are here to help you. As you learn, if you decide TR is not for you all, just let us know. We still welcome you here with our group and will assist you any way we can. We don't know
yet if Mookie will be one of those easier to regulate kitties and so the sugardance and TR will not be that difficult or whether he will choose to be like some of the other kitties (like Gracie, Tess, Gabby, Mannie) who really
love the intricate dance moves!! :lol: :lol:

Your observations on shot times are good...especially the part about maximizing your time to monitor him. We have an East Coaster who shoots at 11/11 and there are many of us West Coast types around late to help her.
But you are currently in the same time zone I am (MST) and since the PST girls are only one hour behind us.....that doesn't leave too many people up at 2 or 3 am when you might need them with your current shot time. BUT...
do what is best for you all and we'll all help as much as possible.

We do have a "policy" (read that pretty loosely) here that if you need help with low numbers or low PSs and someone starts to help you....they stay up with you until kitty is at a safe number or sometimes we work in shifts but the bottom line
is we don't abandon you once we've started helping you shoot low or control low numbers.

Nice on the +1...you want to see that food spike!
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250

You didn't screw anything up. There were a number of options for you to take this morning and you took the one you felt comfortable with. That really isn't much of a food spike , so I'd test again at +2. That should be about the same as your preshot. Do you know when Mookie's average nadir is?

Where in CO are you? We have some members there and you may be lucky and have someone nearby.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250

Hi Randa - I think you did just fine. As you grow comfortable here with LL, and FD as well, you be more confident on dosing etc. You didn't mess things up - Mookie will be just fine. You have to do what you are comfortable with, bottom line. Good luck today, and I too think getting a +2 would be good.

Welcome to LL btw! :-D :-D
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250

Nice job Randa. You didn't mess anything up. You didn't even reduce the shot that much. They can bounce up to 72 hours from lower numbers, so try not to be alarmed. As your confidence builds you will shoot lower numbers easily. Have a good day.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250

We're in Lakewood, which is on the west edge of Denver metro. When I first came on the board I was in contact with Sue in Colo Springs, and Scott and Jen in Denver, all of whom offered assistance with home monitoring. I haven't needed any hands-on help yet, but it's wonderful knowing it's available if I need it.

Because Mookie was anorexic when we received his Dx, my primary concern has been to get Mookie to eat again, no matter what it was. Next I wanted to slowly reduce the kibble and switch him to canned, but I still had to make sure his caloric intake was high enough to gain weight. We've accomplished the diet change from 50/50 kibble/canned to 100% canned, and he's put a little weight back on. I was advised by the good folks on the main board to maintain his dosing schedule (which they thought was too high to start at 1.5U Lantas) during the time we were transitioning to a lo-carb diet.

He's been incredibly hungry since he started eating on his own, and I feed him every 2-3 hours or when he asks for food, which makes it pretty random. I'm thinking I won't really know how his body is using the insulin until I start feeding and testing on a regular schedule. Does that make sense? I'm not sure about his nadir because his numbers are somewhat irregular. Between +5 and +6?

So much to learn!

I wish I had come on over to the LL board before I needed help so that we knew each other ahead of time -- I sort of threw myself at your door without a proper introduction. Thanks again for the warm welcome.

-R
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250

Welcome to Lantus Land!

Lots of people land on this doorstep far less prepared than you and Mookie! You'll do just fine. There are a lot of us here with varying levels of expertise and lots of experience with different parts of this process. We learn from each other. You've been collecting volumes of data!! (You may want to look at Gabby's SS for how I stack info if I'm testing within a particular hour. At least for me, the way you have your AMPS from today, it's a little confusing. Remember, you can use the comments section for all of the pre-shot tests, as well.)

Just so you have it handy, there is a post on what to do if you have a low pre-shot. It's helpful to bookmark the information or print it out, especially if there's no one around at the moment you need help.

As a rule, we don't adjust the insulin dose based on when we're shooting. There are times when it's appropriate to give a reduced dose (e.g., a low pre-shot and you're not going to be around to monitor) but we tend to try to minimize tinkering with the dose because it usually results in wonky numbers. Some of the people who are posting in the Lev forum or on the Relaxed Lantus forum will used a method for altering the dose based on what time your shooting.

If you've not yet had a chance to look at the starred, sticky notes at the top of the board, they will act as an introduction. There's a good amount of information to absorb. The good news is that you've got home testing mastered, you're spreadsheet is up and running, and you're transitioning Mookie to a LC (low carb), canned food diet.

One last point for this evening. Since you shot an hour late, your PMPS is 12 hours from your AM shot. Depending on what Mookie's numbers look like today, you can start moving your shot time back. You can either shoot 15 min. early twice a day or 30 min. early once a day until you're back on schedule.

Please don't hesitate to ask questions. The people here are extremely generous with their time and their knowledge.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250, +2 248

The appetite usually decreases as the numbers decrease. Also, he probably still needs weight. We try not to feed 2 hours before AM or PM PS. That can raise the numbers and you would be shooting a food spike. I think you are safe feeding him small frequent meals if that is what you have been doing. I would get a +3 here - not much difference between the 1 and 2. Others are around to keep an eye out for your post. Off to the barn an my sick horse. Bad batch of grain is the responsible party. UGH. First time for everything I guess.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250, +2 248

how wonderful that you have help nearby, should you need it. Sure does make things easier. I did too: a coworker helped me get started. What a relief it was.

There are alot of folks here in LL that free feed, or feed when their kitty is hungry. IMHO: for now I'd continue to feed when Mookie is hungry, if he's recovering from an anorexic situation, I would guess that you need him to eat, I sure wouldn't deny that. The only thing to keep in mind is that most here will tell you not to feed 1.5 - 2 hours before shot time, so that you get an accurate BG reading when you test before you shoot. otherwise you are getting a food influenced number. and yes - it was wise to maintain the dosing schedule while you transitioned. So so nice to read that Mookie is on canned food now.

And yes, most nadirs are at +5, +6 - though some kitties are much sooner, some are later. As things go along you'll be able to determine Mookie's nadir. Remember that Lantus dosing is determined based on nadir, and nor preshot numbers. Testing will help you see where this nadir is. Making notations on when you feed will also help you determine how Mookie processes what he receives as food. I track mine on mannie's SS, and have added a food line to do that. Maybe that will help you?

Good luck - you are off to a great start today. and yes - so so much to learn. don't worry - it all takes time. :-D
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250, +2 248

Hi, Michelle-- I'll take a look at Mannie's SS. I've been putting his food type and quantity in the comments on each entry (that little orange triangle in the upper right corner of the square), but I can do it another way if that makes it easier for everyone.

Hi, Sienne-- I've printed out all the stickies and the hypo instructions and put them in a notebook for easy reference. I'll clarify the info on Mookie's SS per your/Gabby's chart. All Mookie's PS numbers were taken on an empty tummy with no food for the previous two hours, so those numbers are true.

Re his shot schedule (my goal is to go backwards to 6:30am), if his AM today was at 10:45, the earliest I should give the PM shot is 10:15?
Depending on what Mookie's numbers look like today...
Click to expand...
--meaning within a 100-point spread?

Barbara, I'm so sorry you have a sick horse! Food contamination seems to be more common every year, for both people food and animal food (even honey, for heaven's sake!), with not a whole lot that can be done about it. It's one of the reasons I started growing our own.

Ok, his +3 is 195. Is this a downward spiral that will get scary low? Should I keep testing every hour?
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250, +2 248, +3 195

Hi Randa,

You can do food entries any way that makes sense to you - what I do makes sense to me. :lol: Just as long as it is readable and understandable to those who will look at your SS. I like to track carb's fed at the time I feed it, it was just more logical for me to put it on a line below his BG reading. If you have time take a look at how others track food. I know Marje does, Ann of Ann and Tess, Sienne too.

And yes on the time adjustment. 30 minutes is an OK one. some prefer 15. You should be OK with 30 minutes - I have done that with Mannie without any issues. You may want to track the BG's, like a +1, +2 as you adjust, as moving times up has the effect of an increase without actually adjusting the dose. All in the interest of the safety of Mookie. In all honesty - 30 minutes should work just fine. so yes on the 10:15. unless... Mookie is running very low. I hope someone with more experience will chime in here - as I am so used to shooting low now that it is not a problem for me (not always advisable for newbies).

It's hard to say on the 195. I see it as a normal Lantus drop,and not a potential scary spiral - IMHO. Others may disagree. There is no harm in getting a +3. I would for sure do a +4, a +6, by then you will know what Mookie is up to today. If you are around, and can do a curve, that would be great - it will give you valuable data, help you determine Mookie's nadir (which btw is not cast in stone - it can vary).

Good luck! Mookie is looking great today - well done!
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250, +2 248, +3 195

Yes I'd definitely get another test at +4. Mookie may come up after nadir, but you want to see where he is going once his food spike wears off. Th folks in Health are probably right that now he is on all canned food his insulin needs will decrease. You are getting a ton of great data today.

I'll check back for +4.

If you look at Tess's SS and condo, I do a recap every morning of food and tests, then I put a link in the notes to every day's condo. That way if I want to check any details of a certain dat m I don't have to do a ton of searching or backtracking.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250, +2 248, +3 195

Ok - thanks Michelle and Ann. I'll keep testing and work on his SS. I work at home, so no worries about being here to monitor.

...and what a wonderful group of women to be among. I'm so very grateful.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250, +2 248, +3 195

+4 175

If at the PMPS he's
between 200-300: regular dose, regular time?
between 100-200: regular dose, regular time?
less than 100: panic, stall, and ask for help?
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250, +2 248, +3 195 +4 175

Mookie is slowing down nicely w/ that +5~175, you could check again in another hour or even wait 1.5 or 2 hours. He probably will start to come back up after that. Definitely plan to be around to get a +11 and post right away. it gives a little time to study the curve. I'll check back in another hour too.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250, +2 248, +3 195, +4 175

Thanks, Ann. I'll test in 1-1.5 hours. Want to catch that nadir. Tess is such a pretty little kitty, especially wearing her beads!
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219, +1 250, +2 248, +3 195, +4 175

We cross posted, get the +11 for a little time to plan. As Michelle said, many of us shoot much lower numbers, but we know how our furbabies react. I would say definitely shoot above 200, I would probably shoot between 150 and 200. Lower than that depends on your comfort level and just what happens between then and now. What you do depends on if the number then is rising or dropping, so any extra test in between are helpful. Try not to feed after +10 unless it is a below 50 number, then just a little LC (low carb) food and test again in 15 or 20 minutes. Post right away if that happens. We are keeping an eye on you. :-D :YMHUG:
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219...+3 195, +4 175, +5 138

Hi Just checking back in with you - I agree with what Ann said about what to shoot. There are alot of folks who will be checking in so you will be in good hands.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219...+3 195, +4 175, +5 138

+4 138
Interesting. I wonder where it will go from here. He just ate supper and is romping up and down the hall with a ball, so I know he feels well. I'll keep checking until it starts to climb again.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219...+3 195, +4 175, +5 138

Hopefully Mookie is about at his nadir, he had had it around +5 or 6 when he is low. If you can test again in an hor good, but if you want to wait 2 hours that's fine too. The drop is slow. What we want to see is when he starts going up again.

ETA we keep crossing posts :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219...+3 195, +4 175, +5 138

Ok, Ann and Michelle. I'll wait a bit longer to test next time to give his little needle-pricked ears a break.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219...+3 195, +4 175, +5 138

What pretty numbers for Mookie!! Getting a +11 will be helpful -- that sounds like a good plan. You've shot as low as 120 so I would think if you are comfortable shooting at 100 or thereabout, you're good to go. Our rule of thumb is that whenever you shoot your lowest # yet, you should get a +1 and +2 so you know where things are headed and can intervene early if you need to.

Just a suggestion for readability -- I manually change the type color in the blue and green numbers to white. I find it easier to read the numbers that way. (Of course, It may just be that my eyes are getting old!) Whatever works for you!
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219...+3 195, +4 175, +5 138

The drop is slow so test again in 2 hours. What we want to see is that his BG is coming up for Preshot. If it is a low number , but he is coming up , no problem shooting. However, if he is still dropping you want to see a rising or a surfing number to feel safe shooting low at first.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219...+3 195, +4 175, +5 138

+7 is 161
He's coming back up. That's good, isn't it? So the next most important test is at +11, right?

Every now and then when I think about little Mookie being sick and what he's going through, I nearly start weeping. I'm sure all of you have been there at one time or another with this, and I know you know how I feel. That kind of support means the world to me. Mookie and I thank you.
 
Re: 12/12 Mookie AMPS 219... +4 175, +5 138, +7 161

YAY! he is coming up. and yes - I would get a +11. That way you can compare it to your PMPS number and will know if you have a falling or rising number with your PMPS, though i suspect at this point Mookie will continue to rise, which is normal..

yep, I do believe you are right - we have all been there in one form or another... it is painful to watch them be sick. It is a great place we have here - all of us udnerstand and will do what we can to help.Mookie had a really good day today - and now you have a cycles worth of data - good stuff!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top