12/12 Gussie AMBG 108,+5 61,PMBG 66

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/12-11-gussie-ambg-97-pmbg-63.169485/
Morning all,
Not as great a start Appy wise as yesterday, thinking the mirth is wearing off or something getting worse rather than better.
AMBG 108
Not unheard of for him since going OTJ but given the current circumstances disconcerting.
Little Appy today but he did eat 2/3 of a can of beech nut turkey baby food. Civvies Lola is insisting on his food to the point that I'm not amused and frankly past annoyed.
I gave him CERENIA and mirth since it says I can give it every two to three days and this is day 2. I pick up the topical Bupe this afternoon. Thank you @Taffysmama for the straight Bupe, will give more today.
Thank you all for the vines and support as we try to climb over this bump in the road...extra vines for those juggling P-titis AND diabetes, it has to feel so frustrating, I can't even imagine how you cope....
Surf safely kitties, give your frazzled beans some breathing room and naps as they approach the holiday frenzy
Eat your fuds kitties, there is nothing more worrisome than a fussy cat when it comes to your fuds!

 

[carfurby (GA)]

I hope Gussie's appy picks up and the meds help him feel better. Sending prayers.

 

[HWright]

Actually I was relieved to see that Gussie's am was on track with his usual ambg's squinty to green.

i'm far from being one with much experience with these meds: cerenia, bupe and Mirtz. But....here's my observational hunch fwiw and in hopes eyes more experienced than mine weigh in too

I'd be inclined to hold off on another dose of mirtz til you're at least through the 3-day cycle. Ecid but it did take Sootie a good three days to fully wind down from it! in meantime continue the other meds and continue feeding, the small frequent meal routine, with time in between for mr p to rest with the cerenia and bupe doing their jobs in the pain and nausea depts? Less pain less nausea = appy yay yes?

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Hi Leslie I am just getting caught up on your condos
tremors: how much cerenia have you been giving Gussie? How much mirtazapine? Depending on the cerenia dose, mirtazapine is also a likely culprit for neurologic symptoms (serotonin syndrome which can be dangerous) Murphy gets weird on mirtazapine and it doesn't stimulate his appetite- for Murphy, cyproheptadine (an antihistamine) is the best appy stimulant.
If Gussie is still having tremors, I would not give another dose of mirtazapine today.

Murphy's pancreatitis regimen - cerenia 4 mg daily X 5 days then 1 day off - during an acute attack, I bump it up to 8 mg daily
bupe as needed (what do you mean by topical?) ondansteron 1-2 mg 2 or 3 times a day
cyproheptadine 1 or 2 mg twice a day and SQ fluids if the attack is bad
cannot give mirtazapine and cyproheptadine at the same time - in fact, cypro is the anecdote to mirtazapine's serotonin toxicity

If he does have tremors due to cerenia, my vet said simply stopping for a day or two and they will go away, although I would hate to do this in the midst of a pancreatitis episode. I have noticed that Murphy seems to be in pain after eating for several days after the pancreatitis episode subsides

 

[Taffysmama]

Sounds like Leslie already gave the mirtaz, so Gussie should get hungry soon. I don't know if it's age related or what, but that med only seems to last a day or so for my guy, too. But I generally only need it once. The cerenia, while relieving nausea and inflammation, can sometimes actually suppress appetite a bit. I think it's a matter of finding the right combo for each kitty, but I do believe firmly that in ANY condition with pain, that pain relief is key to healing in cats. B12 or B complex can help stimulate appy, too. An injection is best absorbed, I think, but I also dissolve a sublingual B12 in water and syringe a little (1ml) every few hours. I give very plain food, like the baby food or cooked pureed chicken with nothing added, for up to a week to let things heal. This is always a fun question, but how are his poopies looking?

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

I'm asking the topical bupe - do you mean the ointment that you put in the ears? My vet said that there are no studies to document how much is absorbed trans-dermally

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Feel better soon Gussie. It is always so disheartening when they won't eat well.

 

[Kathy and TiTi]

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/12-11-gussie-ambg-97-pmbg-63.169485/
Morning all,
Not as great a start Appy wise as yesterday, thinking the mirth is wearing off or something getting worse rather than better.
AMBG 108
Not unheard of for him since going OTJ but given the current circumstances disconcerting.
Little Appy today but he did eat 2/3 of a can of beech nut turkey baby food. Civvies Lola is insisting on his food to the point that I'm not amused and frankly past annoyed.
I gave him CERENIA and mirth since it says I can give it every two to thore today.
Thank you all for the vines and support as we try to climb over this bump in the road...extra vines for those juggling P-titis AND diabetes, it has to feel so frustrating, I can't even imagine how you cope....
Surf safely kitties, give your frazzled beans some breathing room and naps as they approach the holiday frenzy
Eat your fuds kitties, there is nothing more worrisome than a fussy cat when it comes to your fuds

Yes, by the end of the 2nd day on Mirt it's effects can start to diminish. More hugs coming your way.

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Thanks, stopped in, +4 61
Was hungry, turned his nose up at everything despite howling for food. Force fed with a syringe. Did not Howell. Headed back to work as I can't stay. I know now why GA Buster was put in a hospital cage with a drip for a week
I may ask they do the same to him

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

I'm asking the topical bupe - do you mean the ointment that you put in the ears? My vet said that there are no studies to document how much is absorbed trans-dermally

Great

 

[HWright]

Great

Sounds like my life ...
Glad Gussie's in the green and hoping he stays there! Always sumthin' right?

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Hi Leslie I am just getting caught up on your condos
tremors: how much cerenia have you been giving Gussie? How much mirtazapine? Depending on the cerenia dose, mirtazapine is also a likely culprit for neurologic symptoms (serotonin syndrome which can be dangerous) Murphy gets weird on mirtazapine and it doesn't stimulate his appetite- for Murphy, cyproheptadine (an antihistamine) is the best appy stimulant.
If Gussie is still having tremors, I would not give another dose of mirtazapine today.

Murphy's pancreatitis regimen - cerenia 4 mg daily X 5 days then 1 day off - during an acute attack, I bump it up to 8 mg daily
bupe as needed (what do you mean by topical?) ondansteron 1-2 mg 2 or 3 times a day
cyproheptadine 1 or 2 mg twice a day and SQ fluids if the attack is bad
cannot give mirtazapine and cyproheptadine at the same time - in fact, cypro is the anecdote to mirtazapine's serotonin toxicity

If he does have tremors due to cerenia, my vet said simply stopping for a day or two and they will go away, although I would hate to do this in the midst of a pancreatitis episode. I have noticed that Murphy seems to be in pain after eating for several days after the pancreatitis episode subsides

I'm at a total loss as to what I'm supposed to do at this point. Yes he had the mirtazeprine again today, along with cerenia and Bupe. I'm ready to just take him in, tel, them to hospitalize him and let them figure out what will or won't help. Sorry, I'm just in a bad place right now so probably shouldn't be on here..I have to go back to work now
ETA I'm totally grateful for the help and info,please don't think in any way I'm not Carol..because I am, I have to go back out to work and all I want to do is crawl under the covers and cry, at this point I have no clue if I've poisoned my cat or not and I can't stay to find out

 

[HWright]

 

[carfurby (GA)]

 

[Kathy and TiTi]

I'm at a total loss as to what I'm supposed to do at this point. Yes he had the mirtazeprine again today, along with cerenia and Bupe. I'm ready to just take him in, tel, them to hospitalize him and let them figure out what will or won't help. Sorry, I'm just in a bad place right now so probably shouldn't be on here..I have to go back to work now
ETA I'm totally grateful for the help and info,please don't think in any way I'm not Carol..because I am, I have to go back out to work and all I want to do is crawl under the covers and cry, at this point I have no clue if I've poisoned my cat or not and I can't stay to find out

You didn't poison Gussie. . Of course you're worried, but you didn't poison him. Roll that worry to the edge of a cliff and shove it over. PLOP!
As to hospitalizing him, well, dunno if that's a good idea or not, but if he isn't eating much, Gus is probably dehydrated. Some subQ drips might help him a lot.
More hugs, and vines

 

[HWright]

Les, if any consolation for you, the day here is going curfluey here too. I'm doing some head banging too. Please don't despair though. Well, try not to anyway.... you are bean marveloso

 

[Barbara & Uncle (GA)]

Thinking of you and Gussie this morning, sending hugs your way.

 

[Kathy and TiTi]

Actually I was relieved to see that Gussie's am was on track with his usual ambg's squinty to green.

i'm far from being one with much experience with these meds: cerenia, bupe and Mirtz. But....here's my observational hunch fwiw and in hopes eyes more experienced than mine weigh in too

I'd be inclined to hold off on another dose of mirtz til you're at least through the 3-day cycle. Ecid but it did take Sootie a good three days to fully wind down from it! in meantime continue the other meds and continue feeding, the small frequent meal routine, with time in between for mr p to rest with the cerenia and bupe doing their jobs in the pain and nausea depts? Less pain less nausea = appy yay yes?

From what I read, I think Gus is on a very small dose of Mirt, thus the vet's decision that every 2 days or 3 days is therapeutic without being dangerous.

 

[Amy&TrixieCat]

and prayers....

 

[Olive & Paula]

. No you did not poison Gussie. Knock that right out of your head. Pancreatitis is tricky. It takes time to find what med combo works and time for them to start feeling better. Hang in there. I don't know about bupre being transdermal. I used the oral liquid with Smokey so it absorbed quickly. He didn't have much muscle mass left for me to be comfortable giving injections.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Leslie, I am so sorry you are overwhelmed with everything right now. We have all been there at one time or another. I don't have a lot of experience with cerenia and mirth and a those appy and nausea drugs Bubba's last illness I only had to give the mirth once and he started eating on his own

Someone mentioned sub q fluids and that might be all he needs to get him over the hump. Unless he can't keep the syringed food down and/or the tremors continue, I would keep him home where he will certainty be in less stress. I would not give the mirt again because of the tremors and it's obviously not helping anyway. But all that said, you need to be comfortable with it all and I hope when you come home tonight, Gussie is like a new kittie! Sending more hugs .

 

[Taffysmama]

Leslie, I am so sorry you are overwhelmed with everything right now. We have all been there at one time or another. I don't have a lot of experience with cerenia and mirth and a those appy and nausea drugs Bubba's last illness I only had to give the mirth once and he started eating on his own

Someone mentioned sub q fluids and that might be all he needs to get him over the hump. Unless he can't keep the syringed food down and/or the tremors continue, I would keep him home where he will certainty be in less stress. I would not give the mirt again because of the tremors and it's obviously not helping anyway. But all that said, you need to be comfortable with it all and I hope when you come home tonight, Gussie is like a new kittie! Sending more hugs .

I second all of that! You did not poison him, and he may take a good rest and feel like a new kitty by the time you get home. I TOTALLY understand the stress and meltdown on your part. I often get overwhelmed when the kitties are sick and can barely deal. But I don't think he needs to go to hospital, he wants to be at home with his Mama Les! It would be too stressful for him. More subQs could help, though, or if you can carefully syringe water for him every hour. (But sounds like he may be difficult to syringe feeding/watering.) This will likely resolve in a few days. See if you can entice him to eat some of the baby food from a spoon or your finger/hand. Sometimes, once they get a lick, they will start eating a bit. The not eating causes more nausea. Oh, for Baby Kitty I used some turkey lunch meat from Sprouts to get him started, not a lot but a few nibbles of nitrate/nitrite free turkey. He is going to be fine!

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Hi Leslie I am just getting caught up on your condos
tremors: how much cerenia have you been giving Gussie? How much mirtazapine? Depending on the cerenia dose, mirtazapine is also a likely culprit for neurologic symptoms (serotonin syndrome which can be dangerous) Murphy gets weird on mirtazapine and it doesn't stimulate his appetite- for Murphy, cyproheptadine (an antihistamine) is the best appy stimulant.
If Gussie is still having tremors, I would not give another dose of mirtazapine today.

Murphy's pancreatitis regimen - cerenia 4 mg daily X 5 days then 1 day off - during an acute attack, I bump it up to 8 mg daily
bupe as needed (what do you mean by topical?) ondansteron 1-2 mg 2 or 3 times a day
cyproheptadine 1 or 2 mg twice a day and SQ fluids if the attack is bad
cannot give mirtazapine and cyproheptadine at the same time - in fact, cypro is the anecdote to mirtazapine's serotonin toxicity

If he does have tremors due to cerenia, my vet said simply stopping for a day or two and they will go away, although I would hate to do this in the midst of a pancreatitis episode. I have noticed that Murphy seems to be in pain after eating for several days after the pancreatitis episode subsides

Thanks @Carol & Murphy
Will try to be coherent in this reply as I'm sort of over my panic attack with this seeing as he's not on his back when I came back, with four stiff legs pointing at the ceiling
Cerenia: 8mg 1 x day ( 8am or so)
Mirtazeprine: 3.75 mg ( a 15 mg tablet divided into 1/4s) every two to three days. Administered Saturday and again today @8 am so two doses so far two days apart.

Is the cyproheptadine available over the counter? If it is the antidote to the toxicity when do you give it to fight that???
Unfortunately I already gave him the second dose of mirtazeprine before I read your post
I'm glad the tremors will go away once the cerenia is stopped if that's what is causing it

I don't have a prescription for the Ondansteron, so he's not getting any of that at all,
No sub Q fluids other than those he got last Friday at the vet visit.
I don't have any here but probably have the setups in my garage from my GA crf kitty days just no fluids unless they never go bad, I recall putting a bag away for an emergency at one time. Don't know if I thought better of it and tossed the fluids tho.

Topical Bupe prep is how the compounding pharmacy said was best for a cat. What did I know, I said great. I'm picking that up,today after my last lesson.

Syringe feeding was a horrible event for him and for me..did not get much in him and he may never eat turkey baby food again

 

[Kathy and TiTi]

Thanks @Carol & Murphy
Will try to be coherent in this reply as I'm sort of over my panic attack with this seeing as he's not on his back when I came back, with four stiff legs pointing at the ceiling
Cerenia: 8mg 1 x day ( 8am or so)
Mirtazeprine: 3.75 mg ( a 15 mg tablet divided into 1/4s) every two to three days. Administered Saturday and again today @8 am so two doses so far two days apart.

Is the cyproheptadine available over the counter? If it is the antidote to the toxicity when do you give it to fight that???
Unfortunately I already gave him the second dose of mirtazeprine before I read your post
I'm glad the tremors will go away once the cerenia is stopped if that's what is causing it

I don't have a prescription for the Ondansteron, so he's not getting any of that at all,
No sub Q fluids other than those he got last Friday at the vet visit.
I don't have any here but probably have the setups in my garage from my GA crf kitty days just no fluids unless they never go bad, I recall putting a bag away for an emergency at one time. Don't know if I thought better of it and tossed the fluids tho.

Topical Bupe prep is how the compounding pharmacy said was best for a cat. What did I know, I said great. I'm picking that up,today after my last lesson.

Syringe feeding was a horrible event for him and for me..did not get much in him and he may never eat turkey baby food again

Unless opened, or punctured, the subqs should be fine. I've used them way after the so-called expiration date - like a year or so after.

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Unless opened, or punctured, the subqs should be fine. I've used them way after the so-called expiration date - like a year or so after.

I will look for them tho it's way more like 10 years by now

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Oh I am so sorry to upset you, Les. I was just trying to help figure out about the tremors and the dosages
It's tricky and complicated
we're all in this together

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

I will look for them tho it's way more like 10 years by now

I think that is too old
You know Gussie so you can assess how he is doing - sounds like he is improving -

 

[Kathy and TiTi]

I will look for them tho it's way more like 10 years by now

Check for these conditions:
Cloudy fluids, or any floaters. Liquid should be crystal clear.
Bag should be flexible, within reason.
Check for any punctures or openings around the seams.

If this checks out, prepare the fluids and then release some and smell it. There shouldn't be any odor.

After that, well, you're most likely fine, according to a distributor of these fluids, a guy I knew personally, and trusted.

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Thank you! Now hoping I didn't toss them..

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Oh I am so sorry to upset you, Les. I was just trying to help figure out about the tremors and the dosages
It's tricky and complicated
we're all in this together

You didn't upset me in any way at all, quite the contrary Carol
The situation upset me and I knee jerk reacted mostly because I'm scared of this one.

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Pancreatitis is so incredibly scary so I absolutely what you mean - it's terrifying

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Doesn't help that the internet likes to stress the pancreas digesting its own tissues part of it...
Gussie apparently prefers his own drug of choice, hope it gives him a big case of the munchies

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

I'm pretty sure I tossed those fluids after a binge on Hoarders episodes..I watch them for inspiration and they never fail to get me to toss stuff I've been hanging on to "in case I need it again some day....."

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Thank you everybody, headed back out..will be back later
Gratefully,
Les

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

I have one of those "just in case" bags, and I don't even have a cat. Hope you come home to a cat feeling great.

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

to toss stuff I've been hanging on to "in case I need it again some day

Ain't that the truth

 

[Taffysmama]

I'm pretty sure I tossed those fluids after a binge on Hoarders episodes..I watch them for inspiration and they never fail to get me to toss stuff I've been hanging on to "in case I need it again some day....."

LOLOL...more we have in common!! I was binge watching "Hoarders" this morning!!! I have to go throw something out now!

 

[HWright]

I'm pretty sure I tossed those fluids after a binge on Hoarders episodes..I watch them for inspiration and they never fail to get me to toss stuff I've been hanging on to "in case I need it again some day....."

I wish I could get DH to be equally inspired! Such endeavors only go so far when there's only one (yours truly) trying to slog through it!
Some years ago I brought home a copy of "Feng Shui for Clutter." ....Hint hint hint.... Came home from work to find Sootie's sister Guernsey (ga) was on kitchen table ready to swat it (and nothing else) onto the floor. Hoppy (ga) was poised on floor by the table and in eager anticipation. As I came through the door, whoosh! Book on floor! And Hoppy instantly availed to pee on the new arrival to the floor! I was seconds too late for the book (good thing was paperback).....and the look they gave me: "if we're not upset about clutter, why should you be?" Oh my. I was outnumbered!

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

And Hoppy instantly availed to pee on the new arrival to the floor!

That is too hilarious - fate trying to tell you something

 

[Taffysmama]

I wish I could get DH to be equally inspired! Such endeavors only go so far when there's only one (yours truly) trying to slog through it!
Some years ago I brought home a copy of "Feng Shui for Clutter." ....Hint hint hint.... Came home from work to find Sootie's sister Guernsey (ga) was on kitchen table ready to swat it (and nothing else) onto the floor. Hoppy (ga) was poised on floor by the table and in eager anticipation. As I came through the door, whoosh! Book on floor! And Hoppy instantly availed to pee on the new arrival to the floor! I was seconds too late for the book (good thing was paperback).....and the look they gave me: "if we're not upset about clutter, why should you be?" Oh my. I was outnumbered!

That's hilarious!

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

Some years ago I brought home a copy of "Feng Shui for Clutter." ....Hint hint hint.... Came home from work to find Sootie's sister Guernsey (ga) was on kitchen table ready to swat it (and nothing else) onto the floor. Hoppy (ga) was poised on floor by the table and in eager anticipation. As I came through the door, whoosh! Book on floor! And Hoppy instantly availed to pee on the new arrival to the floor! I was seconds too late for the book (good thing was paperback).....and the look they gave me: "if we're not upset about clutter, why should you be?" Oh my. I was outnumbered!

Thank you Sina. I'm sure Leslie needed that laugh. I appreciated it, too!

Leslie, you have done, and are doing an amazing job with Gussie. Of course you're worried and stressed. Vent here all you want. That's what we're here for - support. If you can't vent to us about this, where can you?

I would consider asking your vet for a prescription for Cypro (no, not available OTC) and if giving fluids at home would help. When my kitties had p-titis, fluids were always part of the treatment, especially if they weren't eating. Being dehydrated makes you feel yucky. I'm not sure if I'm confusing you with someone else, but did you ask for Ondansetron before and got the a negative response?

Sending healing vines and lots of s.

 

[Photorecon]

Quite a lot of emotion for you today Leslie, hope you'll sleep well tonight with all that.
Wish Gussie would be has hungry has Small Kitty and Big Brother are, could do some
hunger transfer if you want.

Green is quite nice on Gussie, hope he will keep it for some time and the
rest will come back.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Have you ever tried cyproheptadine? I like it sooo much better than mirt and it can be dosed twice a day without worries. Vines.

 

[HWright]

Today must have felt like 'the perfect storm' , sure seemed that way here too.

Hoping that I did not inadvertently contribute adversely to the conundrums. If so, my abundant and from the heart apologies.

Tomorrow will be a better day. Well, let's wait til after the Full Moon!

Please always hold dear to your heart that thanks to you and your love and devotion, Gussie is on the mend, grooving and droolin' the catnip way!

Love the photos.

Btw: spoons in assist feeding: yep, bo, during his P'titis recovery took an instant liking to licking fud off tongue depressors! Spoon feeding a close second. Became a together time thing, quite sweet and quite messy
(Is it really a Maine Coon trait ??)

 

[HWright]

That is too hilarious - fate trying to tell you something

Yep!!!!

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

I'll be back, just walked in but maybe Gussie is feeling better, he just went to town on the scratcher he hasn't touched since he was diagnosed, or perhaps he's just high....either way was nice to see
He is now eating some halshan raw chicken without any tuna, also encipouraging
Anti jinx, anti jinx, anti jinx, anti jinx

Haha I found a book on eliminating clutter in a stack of books that spilled....

 

[Barbara & Uncle (GA)]

I found a book on eliminating clutter in a stack of books that spilled....

too perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

he just went to town on the scratcher

I say a big YAY for that

 

[Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)]

Gussie, heal thyself! Here are some more vines to help. Eat yer fuds!
Les: breathe!

Hugs and scritches,

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Thanks Ella, trying to....I keep reminding myself this too shall pass!

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Today must have felt like 'the perfect storm' , sure seemed that way here too.

Hoping that I did not inadvertently contribute adversely to the conundrums. If so, my abundant and from the heart apologies.

Tomorrow will be a better day. Well, let's wait til after the Full Moon!

Please always hold dear to your heart that thanks to you and your love and devotion, Gussie is on the mend, grooving and droolin' the catnip way!

Love the photos.

Btw: spoons in assist feeding: yep, bo, during his P'titis recovery took an instant liking to licking fud off tongue depressors! Spoon feeding a close second. Became a together time thing, quite sweet and quite messy
(Is it really a Maine Coon trait ??)

Thank you Sina, nothing but gratefully received support came thru in your posts!
Mercury HAS to be in retrograde....