12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153 +7/307 AMPS 497

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Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

. if he's hungry still, you can feed him LC food but don't overfeed....keep it small helpings in case he comes back down

3. If he continues to rise into the 100s, you can test every hour; you need two rising numbers not influenced by food to go to testing every two hours.
Click to expand...

that's what marje said up above. You can feed him a spoonful of LC right now when you test him. But then you are going to need to get two more tests with numbers not influenced by food.
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

BG 142 at 3:10

He was sleeping when I went in. Can I give him catnip? Will that effect his BG? He loves that and I'd rather not give him food until we are sure his BG is not influenced by food. How will I know? 2 hours from when I fed him?

(i'm sorry I went back and re-read the posts but at this late hour it's so hard to comprehend. just want to be sure)

also when is next test? 3:40?
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

From my phone.......pls read my last post.......because he is coming up so fast you might be able to spread the testing out. If he's coming up with LC and staying up then don't worry about getting non food influenced numbers. I didn't expect him to come up so high so fast......just check my last post.
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

Good, still rising.
Yes, you can give him catnip, but you don't have to wake him up to do it. He's probably as tired as you are!
Catnip won't raise his BG.
According to what marje said.....you've gotten two rising numbers, so now you can wait an hour till the next test. Cat nap maybe? lol
So the next one would be at 4:10. He should rise some more by then too. That's what we want, just not a huge rise. 200 would be nice!
Today, I think they call this a "break thru". So good day for Mikey
Carl
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

marje, she hasn't had to feed him more. an hour till the next test? go to sleep! :mrgreen:
Carl
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

He seems ok now. Much more relaxed/calm then when I last fed him the HC. I will retest at 4:10. I'm not going to sleep because I tend to sleep through (turn off in my sleep) the alarm.
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

lol, I wear out my "snooze" button usually. "Just 9 more minutes, that's all I need"..... 45 minutes later I realize all those 9 minute segments didn't really help much.
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

prior to cell phone alarms I loved the snooze button. now with the cell, my hand automatically just turns it off, lol

so...I am going to follow this schedule:

So for Sunday....IF you will be hom...orking back to 11/11 in 15 minute increments.

to get back to 11/11:
Sunday pm 12
Monday am 11:45
Monday pm 11:30
Tuesday am 11:15
Tuesday pm 11
Wed. am 11

is that correct?
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

That is exactly correct. You aren't obligated to go back to 11/11 if something different works. But if that is where you want to get to, following the schedule you wrote is the correct way to do it.

carl
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

Alright, since we're now on page two of the thread I thought it would be easier to copy---->paste what Marje said earlier:

She needs to test every 30 mins until she has two rising numbers. She can feed small amounts of LC food.

If he gets over 100 after two rising numbers, she can test on the hour; I'd then get two rising tests before I felt comfortable going to a longer schedule.

If he shoots up over 200 after one hour, then I'd probably go two hours to test him. He may wobble a little bit but he probably won't come all the way back down into the 50s. Even still...I'd be sure to test him again after two hours just to be certain.

I hope that makes sense....exhaustion overcoming my brain. The bottom line is to just stay vigilant until he is up....usually if you get them up to 150-200, they won't come back too far down. And don't be surprised if he just skyrockets. He is totally not used to 38 and his liver will probably send his numbers way up.
Click to expand...

So once you get the next test in a few minutes, we can see where we are at on the list.
Carl
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

BG 120 at 4:10.

He seems hungry can I give him a little LC? When should I test him next?
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

poop. wrong direction, Mikey. Not a problem, was just hoping for a consistent climb but he hasn't had any food except for that one time when he was 38, right?

You can feed him a spoonful of LC now if he's acting really hungry.
You will need to test in another hour.

Carl
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

i know, i was really hoping he would go up
I'll give him just a little LC food

(good idea on reposting Marje's post ;-)
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +3.20min/87/120

Jen,
If you want to change your subject line, I would leave it as is up till the +3, then I would say "+4/142, +5/120"
Anybody who checks in once the sun comes up can look at the SS or read through the thread to get the details on the in-between tests.

It'll give you something to do over the next hour :lol:
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120

I've been plenty busy working that is probably why I totally forgot about the subject line a few tests ago. Thanks for reminding me. I think after the 5:10am test we are going to take a cat nap.
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120

I can't blame you. I'm thinking that soon after that, the usual early morning crowd will start to show up too.

Carl
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153

BG 153 at +5 5:10am

Food spike?

retest at +7/6:10am?
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153

I don't know for sure if it is a food spike. He had like a spoonful? Looks like he's going to hang around the 150 mark.

One of two ways here, and I don't see anyone else on to advise, so I guess it's up to us.

You can either feed him now to keep him from dropping over the next few hours, or you can just test him again in another hour.
when I look at the SS, it looks like Mikey has a habit of what I think somebody called "double dipping"? It looks like he comes up, and then goes back down between +10 and +12.
If he does that again tonight then you could be testing every hour until AMPS.

Let me think about this for a minute...
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153

Jenn,
what time does mikey normally eat breakfast?
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153

His "typical" feedings are at 11a/11p with his shot and I was giving 1/2 can. Then around 7am 1/4 can and 4-5pm 1/4 can. (treats and cat nip in between w/ tests) Today I fed him differently because we went out.
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153

I'm looking for something I read that Marje posted today or yesterday about "use food to manage the curve".....


Some people free feed all day. Many others feed minimeals at PS, +1, +2, +3 so that the onset of the insulin is more gentle. ECID. So, yes, you would take whatever his a.m. allotment of food is and divide it between those feeding times. It's supposed to help even out the front end of the curve. If a kitty is coming down in numbers, the food helps to slow it down a little bit. You want to see a food spike at +1 with a little of it still left at +2 so the +2 number is about the same as the PS.

Shooting a food spike is different. We try not to feed between +10 and +12 because if a cat was dropping before then, the food could raise the BG especially at the end of the cycle. BUT once the food wears off, kitty "could" continue to drop. We want to shoot true numbers that are not influenced by food.

However, food management is a big thing. Jill taught me a long time ago:

manage the curve with food ------> flatten the curve ------- > adjust the dose accordingly

So food management of a curve is a very important thing.
Click to expand...

Now let me figure out what to do with that....
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153

Test him again at 6:10 which will be like his +7.
Depending on the number, we might just feed him then. It'll stop him from dipping maybe like he likes to do at +10, and keep him up until AMPS, but the food will be worn off by then, so his AMPS won't be messed up due to food in his system.

Does that sound like it makes sense?

Carl
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153

I am still a little unclear on the difference between food spikes, bounces, curves, surfing...Marje wrote a post explaining it but I haven't had a chance to read it with out a "tired" brain.

I will test him again at 6:10 and we can go from there. At this point my brain can only handle one step at a time :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153

Well, I understand all those things. It's lantus I don't really understand! :lol:
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153

I won't explain them the same way as Marje did but:

Food spike - a rise in BG once the food hit his system. Depending on the food, can be 30 minutes to 90 or so before you see a rise from food.

Bounce - when the BG either drops too fast or too low (ECID on the low - to a cat with 450 preshots, 300 can be "low" as far as he's concerned), the liver reacts, and dumps "glucose" into the system to raise the BG back up to what his body believes is "safe". He doesn't have to go into the greens for this to happen. They call it "liver training", but eventually, kitty "learns" that what he thinks is too low really isn't all that bad, and it stops happening, or happens less often. It usually causes the BG to be higher next PS.

Curve - depending on the insulin type, a curve can be shaped different. Think of AMPS and PMPS as the "corners" of your mouth. Nadir would be the middle of your lower lip. With PZI for instance, you want the curve shape to look like a nice smile, where the AMPS and PMPS are maybe 300, and the nadir is like 150. Not extreme, just a nice shaped "smile". With an insulin like Humulin, the curve would be more shaped like the letter V, where there's a steep and fast decline, then just as quick back up.
I think with Lantus, the shape is more like a smirk or no smile at all, more "flat", where kitty stays right around the same BG all day long.

Surf - I know Marje was talking about "green" surfs.....where he would stay in the greens for a long time. That can happen with blues and yellows too, if you have high PS numbers. It happens with pzi a lot, where a kitty will start in the reds and pinks, drop down to the yellows and blues, and just stay there for hours. "Surfing".
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153

ok. i wasn't ready for this BG 307 @ +7 (6:10am)

now what?
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153

check again, but I think it's "right"....
Carl
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153 +7

I retested opposite ear BG 254
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153

Jenn,
Back on "page 1", marje posted this:
I hope that makes sense....exhaustion overcoming my brain. The bottom line is to just stay vigilant until he is up....usually if you get them up to 150-200, they won't come back too far down. And don't be surprised if he just skyrockets. He is totally not used to 38 and his liver will probably send his numbers way up.
Click to expand...
OK, so a 307 and a 254. Figure in meter variance. 307 - 20% = 250 or so. 254 +20% is around 300. They overlap. His "real" number is somewhere in between that, probably about 275. That's fine. Put both numbers in the +7 box.

So, not really a big surprise. However, it isn't a reason to worry. This ties into "Bounce" and "liver panic or liver training". Mikey didn't even know the number 38 existed before tonight!
You don't do anything with it. It will go away on it's own.

The plan is still to shoot 1.25 at 11:15 in the morning. In fact, that number means he's not going to come crashing on down again before daylight, and probably not too far down by AMPS. You can proceed as normal. Feed him his 1/4 can or whatever he would normally get at 7am. And take a nap. Really. He's not going to crash now. He may come down a bit, or go up a bit.

I would feed him what you normally do at 7am and take a 2-3 hour nap.

Carl
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153 +7

ok. I got it and it makes sense even at this hour. 1.25u at 11:15am w/ regular amount of food.


Luckily for me I was able to work tonight in between the testing, posting, etc. I am truly blessed with my job in that it allows me to take care of the cats the way I do.

Thanks for staying up with us. I'll tell my boss you said I should take a 2-3 hr nap :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hope you get some sleep as well !
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153 +7

Jen
You did really well with this. You did exactly what you needed to do from the time he started dropping sharply at +2, then the 38, and all the way up until now. There may come a day or night when you have to do this alone. The best thing about this experience is that you should understand at this moment that you COULD do this by yourself if you really had to.

Great job.

I won't sign off until somebody else wakes up, but you go ahead and catch a few winks, okay?

Carl
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153 +7

Thanks Carl.
I am understanding a little more everyday. I have to be honest I wasn't expecting all of this when I agreed to Foster. I am more than happy I did. The experience is amazing but a lot to get used to.
I am going to try to get some sleep now that the sun is up!
 
Re: 12/1 Mikey PMPS 175 +2/67 +3/38 +4/142 +5/120 +6/153 +7

Good! Get some SLEEP before the room gets crowded again! :lol:

I'll check on you later,
Carl
 
sorry for the 911. but last checked I was supposed to do a dose reductions from 1.5u to 1.25 u but he is so high now am i still supposed to shoot 1.25? I have 5 minutes?
 
I've read the whole thread and yes, shoot what they've advised. This is an ARTIFICIALLY induced number due to the liver dumping glucose from those low numbers.

HUGS - YOU DONE GOOD!!!
 
They might have suggested to stay at the larger dose but you're on a time limit so was better to shoot their adviced amount.

QUESTION CARL/MARJE - which would you have done in this case?

I got ya on the looooong night....was one here too.....

BIG HUGS!
 
I would have said the exact same thing
1.25
Hi, jenn
Sorry. I "overslept!"
 
I shot at 11:15 to then get to 12 for sunday however my wonderful fiance just took off work and will be home to shoot. What time should I shoot tonight to get back to 11am/11pm. Can I just shoot 11pm tonight?
 
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