12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 +3 HI +6 542 +9 533 PMPS 507

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Suzanne & Cobb(GA)

Suzanne & Cobb(GA)

Member Since 2013
Good morning!

Yesterday

So we reduced the dose last night to 2u. This is also the first cycle he was completely on the Friskies (no RC wet). You can see his number dropped around +5, but rose again by +9. I'm assuming we expected to see a higher number this morning as his body adjusts to a lower dose? A little frustrating since we haven't seen that high of a number in a week -- it makes me question my decision to lower it so much, but we're here for the long haul.

His appetite is good. To whoever recommended I put some water in the pate, that has worked fabulous! It has slowed him down eating and I think tided him over a little more. He wasn't begging for food this morning. He's also coming out of closets and bathrooms where he usually hides. Last night he slept in the middle of our room and I found him hanging out in front of the baby's crib -- he's usually in that closet. All other activity is normal.

Questions:

We are currently using the iPet glucometer. After discussing with my husband, we are thinking of switching to a human meter (more access to test strips instead of having to order them, cheaper test strips). I'd love some input as to the best one to get. One that takes very little blood would be great.

Also, I know you want me to test his ketones. Honestly, I have no idea where to start on this. It seems daunting, and the thought of it is overwhelming to me. Would it be easier if we switch litters in his box? Right now we are using clumpable litter, of which we go through a TON right now (we're talking like $30 a week in litter). We put crystals in one of his boxes and that looks to be working well. I rarely hear when Cobb is in his litter box so unless I stalk him catching urine is going to be really difficult. Any advice on this would be helpful! Also, say he does show a trace of ketones -- what then? Post here and figure out what to do? Let's start with how to do it.
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 ???

I think there are at least 2 explanations for that less than lovely pre-shot number. As you noted, dropping the dose may be one factor. The other likely culprit is the 209 that you saw yesterday. Cobb's body has "forgotten" what it's like to be in lower numbers. As a result, his body began to regard those high numbers as his new "normal." When his numbers drop, it triggers his liver and pancreas to go into emergency response mode by releasing glycogen (a stored form of glucose) and counterregulatory hormones which cause numbers to spike. We refer to this as a "bounce." It can take as much as 72 hours for a bounce to clear. While these bounces are annoying, they are a normal part of the process.

Many people here use the Walmart brand meter -- Relion. Arkray manufactures this meter and you can order the meter and strips from American Diabetes Wholesale (ADW). The Arkray strips work in the Walmart meter and the Arkray strips are even less expensive than the Walmart strips. I use a Bayer Contour. It's the meter I started this journey with and at the time, was highly rated. I'm sure others will give you their input about meters.

Ketone testing isn't all that difficult. Your right, though. The hardest part tends to be stalking your kitty to the litter box. If I can catch Gabby in the box (and she's not shy about peeing if I'm around), I just stick a Ketostix in her urine stream. (She pretty much ignores me or thinks I'm nuts.) If Cobb is more "sensitive" about his hygiene habits, putting some plastic wrap over the litter will let the urine pool. Another trick is to use aquarium gravel which won't absorb the urine. You can then rinse and dry the gravel and re-use it. Again, others may have more suggestions.
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 ???

Welcome Suzanne and Cobb

Sounds like you and Cobb have much the same back story as myself and Casey.

My Casey is a foster kitty that I picked up last week. He was also greatly overdosed at 11u of Levemir bid. And was being free fed W/D dry (37% carbs) which ballooned his weight to 27 lbs. (he's a watermelon with feet)

Through home testing I've been able to roll back his dose to .75u bid and he is doing exceptionally well. Even considering that he's had a ton of changes in his life in a very short period of time.

Hopefully your Cobb will do as well and these wonderful folks will help you figure out how to get him exactly where he needs to be.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 ???

I was always successful with putting a trash bag over the litter box and smooshing it down so she could feel the texture of the litter under her feet.
Mine would never let go with me hovering.... she likes her privacy.
You don't want the plastic to be too thin, they can scratch right thru and you lose your sample.
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 ???

I'm looking at the Relion Micro meter from Walmart. It's rated well on two Consumer Reports posts here.

Anyone with experience?
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 ???

The Relion Micro is a really good choice. I started with the Confirm because of the small sample size...it's the same as the Micro and is VERY tiny!! After China's ears "learned to bleed", I switched to the Relion Prime just because of the cheaper strips, but we would have never made it if it weren't for the Confirm and it's tiny sample size

With as much testing as I do, the price of the strips has to be figured in. That's why I had wondered if you were going to continue using the iPet..as you can see, you'd be going through strips pretty quickly
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 ???

Chris & China said:
The Relion Micro is a really good choice. I started with the Confirm because of the small sample size...it's the same as the Micro and is VERY tiny!! After China's ears "learned to bleed", I switched to the Relion Prime just because of the cheaper strips, but we would have never made it if it weren't for the Confirm and it's tiny sample size

With as much testing as I do, the price of the strips has to be figured in. That's why I had wondered if you were going to continue using the iPet..as you can see, you'd be going through strips pretty quickly
Click to expand...

Yeah...I saw for 100 strips from ADW, it was going to be $75!

If I'm reading and understanding what I'm reading correctly. The iPet requires 1.5microliter for a strip. The Prime requires .5microliters? Is that correct?

So if I've had success with the iPet strips, switching to the Confirm would be an option because I'm obviously already getting more blood than that as it is now, and you're right the strips are MUCH cheaper.
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 ???

Yes, the Prime needs a little more of a sample (but still a tiny amount) than the Confirm or the Micro

The Prime needs .5microliters

The Confirm or Micro needs .3microliters

If you haven't had any trouble getting samples larger than that already, I'd go ahead and get the Prime and save the $$$. At $9 for 50, that's a darn good price and since they're available at WalMart, if you run out on a weekend or late at night, you only need a 24hr WalMart to get more

The Confirm/Micro strips are about $18 for 50
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 ???

Good morning Suzanne. I use the Relion Confirm, but I order the Arkray strips from ADW as Sienne mentioned above. They work in the Micro too. Here is the best price I've seen on the strips. $70 for 250 strips is a good savings on the Walmart pricing. And I do like the smaller blood drop size. As you get more experience with testing and Cobbs ears bleed, you could move to a smaller lancet size.
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 ???

Chris & China said:
Yes, the Prime needs a little more of a sample (but still a tiny amount) than the Confirm or the Micro

The Prime needs .5microliters

The Confirm or Micro needs .3microliters

If you haven't had any trouble getting samples larger than that already, I'd go ahead and get the Prime and save the $$$. At $9 for 50, that's a darn good price and since they're available at WalMart, if you run out on a weekend or late at night, you only need a 24hr WalMart to get more

The Confirm/Micro strips are about $18 for 50
Click to expand...

Requiring a smaller sample will probably be helpful because sometimes some sticks don't result in enough blood and I have to do it again -- sometimes 3 or 4 times -- although this week has been better since his ear has learned to bleed. But needing a smaller amount could mean that I could use his left ear and teach it to bleed too. I'll be picking up a Prime or Confirm this week when I run out of these strips. (My husband is happy about lower prices on the strips!!)
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 +3 HI ???

ugh - that's an icky #. but let's see what else you get and go from there.

i used a relion confirm and bought strips through ADW as well. if you sign up first at mrrebates.com you can get a 4% back on your purchases - which you'll have lots of. or you can go through the button at the top of the forum to get to ADW and this site gets that percentage instead. i also bought the generic Arkray strips in the 5 boxes bundle that Wendy is talking about.

when you're getting syringes, you want ones with .5u markings. i used the Terumos because they are fairly accurate in their markings and they glide nicely. if you haven't read the info on caring for your insulin and watched the video, you'll want to do that. it's at the top of this forum in one of the yellow starred stickies. it's too expensive to not take care of it.

mrrebates

Terumo syringes

Test strips
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 +3 HI ???

If you're needing to poke several times, what gauge lancet are you using? Until Cobb's ears learn to bleed, you may want to consider using a lancet that's less than a 30 gauge (i.e., a 28 or 29 gauge lancet -- the smaller the number, the thicker the lancet).
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 +3 HI ???

Sienne and Gabby said:
If you're needing to poke several times, what gauge lancet are you using? Until Cobb's ears learn to bleed, you may want to consider using a lancet that's less than a 30 gauge (i.e., a 28 or 29 gauge lancet -- the smaller the number, the thicker the lancet).
Click to expand...

Not sure. I'll have to check. His right ear has been fine this week. I can get it in one poke. His left ear is a completely different story. I can do it several times and nothing.
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 +3 HI ???

we learned on punkin's left ear and when it stopped bleeding, we switched to his right ear. then we only poked there for the next 2+ years. i think we had scarred the left ear. it's not uncommon for one ear to bleed better than the other one.

using the neosporin will help - i don't know if it prevents scarring but it does seem to really heal them quickly. staunching after poking prevents bruising and seems to prevent scarring to me.
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 +3 HI +6 542

So I'm sure it's too early to tell but I'll ask anyway...

Last night after the 2u, he dipped into the upper 200s. Do you think this is because of the depot or lingering effects of the 10u from yesterday morning? I'm a tad discouraged...
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 +3 HI +6 542

It could be lasting effects of the depot..or it could be a bounce off the 200's. Cobb's liver probably hasn't seen a 200 in quite some time, so releases hormones and stored sugar to bring it back up to where it's "used to"

It's just too early to know for sure. I'm not experienced enough with high dose cats to give you much advice, but I know that the ones who do have that experience understand that Cobb may need to be fast-tracked instead of holding each dose at least 3 days

And yes, sometimes this dance is incredibly frustating..we understand that all too well
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 +3 HI +6 542 +9 533

I found I have a lot better success if I get a little higher up than the sweet spots on this picture.
And I also get as close to the edge as possible.

I think scarring is more likely to happen with the folks free handing a lancet. It also depends on the cats coloring.
I can't tell at all on my own cat currently.
ear_web1_zps0bf45a17.jpg
 
Re: 12/1 Cobb AMPS 517 +3 HI +6 542 +9 533

rhiannon and shadow said:
I found I have a lot better success if I get a little higher up than the sweet spots on this picture.
And I also get as close to the edge as possible.

I think scarring is more likely to happen with the folks free handing a lancet. It also depends on the cats coloring.
I can't tell at all on my own cat currently.
ear_web1_zps0bf45a17.jpg
Click to expand...

We are good on his right ear! I've hit several very near the edge yesterday and today and gotten a good drop. I'll have to start doing his left ear more so we can teach it to bleed. I did use Neosporin last night and it looked so much better today. I also put some on tonight. I did check our lancets and they are 28 gauge.

Updates from today:

I started watering down his pate. He is definitely eating more slowly, and I noticed with his dinner just now he ate a bit, walked to his water bowl to drink a bit, and then returned to the food. I take this to be a positive sign that he's not inhaling the food anymore.

So...we had the first cycle entirely on the LC Friskies. grr_red As you can see the numbers are confusing (at least to me). Shouldn't his PMPS not be the lowest number of the day?? I guess the positive news is the number came down. (yes???)

My husband is in charge of the litter box and he says he thinks there is a little less pee today, but it can sometimes be hard to tell. Other P's are all unchanged. Pooping as normal. And his coat is feeling better, so I'm guessing he is grooming more.

I'd love to hear your thoughts as to how you think today went. As always, I'll be up throughout the night with our human baby so I'll get periodic tests on our fur baby as well.
 
With meter variance figured in, Cobb pretty much had a flat black cycle. When you figure in 20% one way or the other, all those numbers are pretty much the same.

He may very well need a higher dose, but since he did just have a 200 last night, we can't ignore that he may be bouncing.

Good to hear that it looks like he might be peeing less and preening more...those are both positive signs.

Hold the course a little while longer. You're doing GREAT!!
 
this whole dance can be very frustrating, but we just keep on until we get where we're going! it would've been great to see Cobb coming down today, but this isn't unexpected. if he had, that would have been an awesome surprise! having had a 10u dose build up in a depot inside his body, it takes a little while for "Lake Michgan" to reduce. so yes, i would think that the 262 last night was still from the 10u dose.

someone long before me came up with the saying "it's a marathon, not a sprint." i've thought of that a zillion times since i heard it. it is so appropriate!

Let's stay with the 2.0u dose for the 4 doses, through tomorrow morning and re-evaluate in time for tomorrow evening's shot. this is a data-driven site, so we are all about what the numbers tell us. you're doing a super job of getting data to help make that picture clear.

how's he feeling overall? have you been able to get a ketone test? btw, you asked earlier about those - i put a few cups of dry lentils in a "temporary" litter box. took a box lid, slipped it inside a plastic garbage bag so it would be waterproof, then shut punkin in a room after he ate with only that box. you can use anything non-absorbent. the lentils, like gravel, won't absorb the urine so when he's gone you can tip the box so the litter goes one way and test the urine easily. then you can rinse off the lentils, let them dry and use them again later. when you do the test you have to read the strip right away, following the directions to compare to the bottle. the color tells you if there are ketones present and the color will continue to change. i want to say that mine said to read the strip within 15 seconds of getting it wet.

what time zone are you in and what time do you shoot? just want to make sure someone helps you make a decision on whether or not to increase before you shoot tomorrow night.

keep in mind that he's been doing this for months, so we're not going to get him to the right dose overnight. but we will get him get there, whether he needs less insulin or he needs more than the 10u. we'll get it figured out. :YMHUG:
 
ah, you posted while i was writing. great to hear he's feeling ok. cats are more than their numbers.

you're doing a great job - you're controlling all you can control, and that's all you can do. i'd think just a couple of tests in the pm cycle (between now and morning) are sufficient. unless you're enthusiastic, in which case, go for it! :lol:

so you must've just shot, somewhere around 5pm pacific time/8pm eastern time. super. i'll be around tomorrow after work and i'm sure others will be as well.

eta - the previous dose can affect as much as 6 cycles after you've reduced it.
 
Great. Thank you all so much. Cobb and I appreciate your help! I figured we wouldn't see a huge change overnight, but I was hopeful. The AMPS was disappointing after the 262 in the middle of last night!

I'll probably only get two tests tonight - as I'd love to get some sleep if the baby is actually sleeping! Last night was a rough one.

Yes, I'm on EST. I shoot at 8am and 8pm.

I have not done a ketone test yet. I'm headed out tomorrow to get a different glucometer and new strips are on their way. I couldn't bring myself to pay $75 for new iPet strips when I could get 250 for less than that to use in the ReliOn Confirm. I will pick up some ketone test strips and try to see if I can figure that out. That seems daunting to both me and my husband right now.
 
the ketone test did to me too. i don't know how cobb is, but punkin had quite furry thighs - there was never any seeing him doing his business! private little guy! try the separate box idea - i think that won't be difficult. that's the only way i ever did it.
 
Hi Suzanne,
Great idea to switch to a human meter. If you're going to get the Arkray Glucocard Sensor 01 strips from ADW you might as well get an Arkray Glucocard 01 meter, too. The Arkray Glucocard 01 Mini is the same meter as the Relion Micro. The Arkray Glucocard 01 is the same meter as the Relion Confirm. Walmart puts it's Relion brand on the Arkray meters. The Glucocard 01 Mini and the Glucocard 01 use the same strips: Glucocard 01 Sensor. These are the strips that ADW sells 5 boxes for the price of 4. (Wendy sent you that link.) If you need to buy the Glucocard 01 meter in a package with 200 strips, this seems to be ADW's best buy: Glucocard 01 meter kit with 200 strips for $64.56 (the meter kit if you buy it separately is $11.99):
http://www.americandiabeteswholesal...rd-01-blood-glucose-monitoring-kit_4045_1.htm

Good luck. Cobb looks to be bouncing.

Ella & Rusty
 
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