? 11-May-2022 - Newbie: Tigger's Parents - Just Diagnosed

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Jon Farnsworth

Jon Farnsworth

Member Since 2022
About US: Jon, Claire & Camille are Tigger's parents (Canada)
About Tigger: 11.5 yr old male, 7 kg (15.4 lbs) Glucose Level (by Vet) is at 29, should be between 5-10. Is currently on 4.5 IU Insulin 2 x per day (for 5 days so far). We need to monitor his Glucose level on a curve every week to ensure his dosage is correct. We have been advised to increase his insulin dosage by +10% each week his reading is above 5.

We have many questions and your site has been incredibly helpful - THANK YOU.

Our Most Pressing issues:
We have purchased human grade monitoring kit: Contour next EZ (blood glucose monitoring system)
Q1: Is this safe and effective to use on Tigger?
Q2. Do we need to visit the vet to convert this for cat use?
Q3: Any success interchanging other brand of strips with this kit?

He is fed at 7 am and 7 pm, with his insulin administered at meal times.
Q4: When are the best testing times for Tigger at this stage?

We also believe Tigger can live a fairly normal and longer life if we know what we need to do.
We look forward to your support and guidance.
Many thanks
Jon, Claire & Camille
 
Hello and Welcome to the FDMB! We are here to help you. What kind of insulin is Tigger now receiving? Your BG monitor is fine. I know a lot of people on this Board use it. I don't know anything about switching out for different strips though. Are they expensive?
 
By the way, I love that photo of your Tigger! He's a handsome boy!

Have you read through the dosing methods yet. They are either Start Low Go Slow or Tight Regulation. What you choose will be based upon how much home testing that you can do.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Hello and Welcome to the FDMB! We are here to help you. What kind of insulin is Tigger now receiving? Your BG monitor is fine. I know a lot of people on this Board use it. I don't know anything about switching out for different strips though. Are they expensive?
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
Hello and Welcome to the FDMB! We are here to help you. What kind of insulin is Tigger now receiving? Your BG monitor is fine. I know a lot of people on this Board use it. I don't know anything about switching out for different strips though. Are they expensive?
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Hi Suzanne & D'Arcy,
Thank you for your quick response.
Tigger is on Caninsulin, 40 I. U/mL
 
Hi Jon and Tigger, welcome to the club. This place is amazing, if you let it be so. So many people here with so much experience treating diabetic cats, the knowledge base is unbelievable. I am pretty new myself so I won't try to give you any advice but I will say this: following the advice I got here from people like @Suzanne & Darcy (one of my personal heros, btw) turned things around for my boy Hendrick. So skinny, so sick, he was. And now, a few months later he is back to his old self, gained weight back, coat smooth and shiny! The people here are very numbers driven, I love it! I'll see you around the forum.
 
At least your vet is on board with the home testing. I am sorry that he is on Caninsulin, but it is what it is for now. My boy started on Vetsulin (Caninsulin) and it didn't do well for him, but it was a starter insulin and then we moved on from there. When you get a chance try to get a signature set up with the information suggested in the link I sent you.
 
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
Hi Jon and Tigger, welcome to the club. This place is amazing, if you let it be so. So many people here with so much experience treating diabetic cats, the knowledge base is unbelievable. I am pretty new myself so I won't try to give you any advice but I will say this: following the advice I got here from people like @Suzanne & Darcy (one of my personal heros, btw) turned things around for my boy Hendrick. So skinny, so sick, he was. And now, a few months later he is back to his old self, gained weight back, coat smooth and shiny! The people here are very numbers driven, I love it! I'll see you around the forum.
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Hello Hendrik Cuddleclaw, thanks for your positive message. We feel a lot of good from the forum already and in safe hands.
We love your name Cuddleclaw
 
Welcome to FDMB!

Regarding your questions about meters, most people here use a human meter for testing their cat. In fact, our dosing information, like the Canisulin/Vetsulin guide were developed using human meters. There is no way to calibrate a human meter to parallel an animal meter. I would not even try to switch around strips from one brand of meter to another. You will have no way to know if the strips are reading correctly. Stick with the strips that go with the meter!

With Caninsulin, you need to have food on board prior to administering insulin. You should feed at least 20 - 30 min prior to giving an injection. The reason is that Caninsulin acts quickly and can drop numbers hard and fast. Having food in your cat's system will help to buffer the drop. (This is one of the reasons that Caninsulin is no longer recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn. The other reason is that it does not last 12 hours. It has about an 8 - 10 hour duration so numbers are typically much higher at reshot times. Lantus (glargine) and Prozinc are the recommended insulins.) I would get a test 2 hours after Tigger eats. If his numbers are dropping fast, you will need to get another test in about an hour.

I also want to mention that 4.5u is a large starting dose of insulin. We recommend starting at 0.5u. If your vet was basing the starting dose on the blood glucose (BG) test at the clinic, it was likely considerably higher than what you would see at home. We also increase doses by 0.25u. While a curve is important, it's also important to be testing a few times during both the AM and PM cycles. You need to know how low the insulin dose is taking Tigger's numbers.

If you need a hand getting your signature and spreadsheet set up, I'm tagging a member, @Bandit's Mom, who can help. We are very numbers driven so it will be helpful for us to see how Tigger has been doing on insulin.

Please let us know how we can help. The member here are very generous with their time and knowledge.
 
Sienne has you covered with some of the most important things! Let us know if you need help with home testing. It can be really challenging at first, but you will get the hang of it. @Diane Tyler's Mom can you help with some information (and the famous ear picture) on home testing and any other helpful info that has not already been sent.
 
Jon Farnsworth said:
Hello Hendrik Cuddleclaw, thanks for your positive message. We feel a lot of good from the forum already and in safe hands.
We love your name Cuddleclaw
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Thanks!

I made it up just for this forum, ha. I was trying to come up with a name like Henry P Snugglepuss or something, and it occurred to me that Hendrick's cuddles sometimes involve a little......uh, shall we say...acupuncture. Especially if he is REALLY happy.

And I love alliteration so Cuddleclaw was born!
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I am tagging @Chris & China (GA) since Bhooma is out of town. Don't worry. It's not as daunting as it appears.
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I'm more than happy to set up a spreadsheet for you @Jon Farnsworth! Just click on my sign on name and choose "start a conversation" to send me a private message so I can get some details.

Something you may not know.....If you live in Canada, you can get a MUCH better insulin for Tigger at your local pharmacy. Lantus or Basaglar are the most recommended insulin's for cats and have the most research proving their efficacy....and it's OTC in Canada! You don't need a script (lucky you!). It's also a lot cheaper than it is for those of us in the US where a 5 pack of pens can be over $500.

I'm also terribly concerned at the high dose your vet has started you on. Most cats never need more than about 3 units unless they have a high dose condition like acromegaly or IAA. (there are always exceptions). The dose isn't based on how high they are, especially if that number is at the vet. Cats react to stress by having their blood glucose go up...some as much as 11.1 points! We usually start at 0.5 to 1.0 unit and go up in 0.25 to 0.5 unit increments. By starting low and slowly increasing, you're much less likely to miss what could be an optimal dose for Tigger.....and you're also much less likely to end up having to deal with a hypoglycemic crisis.

If you continue to go with the 4.5 dose, PLEASE make sure you have a hypo kit ready and know the signs of hypoglycemia and how to treat it.
 
I'll have your spreadsheet ready for you in a minute, but if Tigger were my cat, the first thing I'd do is stop the insulin (as long as there isn't a history of ketones) and get him off the W/D and the RC "Diabetic". The canned W/D is over 25% carbs and there's absolutely nothing in it that makes it require a script or that actually treats diabetes. It also contains my personal pet peeve ingredient they laughingly call "powdered cellulose"...that's basically a fancy word for sawdust. (which is why it's so high in fiber!)

A lot of vets still think a diabetic cat should eat a high fiber diet but it's not fiber that matters....it's carbs!

The RC "Diabetic" is also too high in carbs as well as having nothing special in it that either requires a script or treats diabetes. You're paying a premium price for foods made with inferior grade ingredients that have a well advertised name. The only good point is that they're 100% guaranteed so can be returned for a refund. Most of us just told our vet that our cat refused to eat it anymore.

Some great information, written by a vet with a special interest in feline nutrition, can be found here. It's well worth the read!

Once Tigger is eating nothing but low carb canned foods, you'll know within 3-4 days if he needs to go back on insulin. Testing during that time will let you see the effect the diet change makes. A normal cat's blood glucose should be 2.8 to 6.7 on a human meter.

IF you don't want to take him off insulin for a few days, then you'll need to do the diet change very slowly and while you are able to test frequently. Reducing the carbs in the diet can drastically reduce the need for insulin.
 
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
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6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
You can also put a thin layer of vaseline on the ear ,to help the blood bead up
A video one of our members posted
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
I'll have your spreadsheet ready for you in a minute, but if Tigger were my cat, the first thing I'd do is stop the insulin (as long as there isn't a history of ketones) and get him off the W/D and the RC "Diabetic". The canned W/D is over 25% carbs and there's absolutely nothing in it that makes it require a script or that actually treats diabetes. It also contains my personal pet peeve ingredient they laughingly call "powdered cellulose"...that's basically a fancy word for sawdust. (which is why it's so high in fiber!)

A lot of vets still think a diabetic cat should eat a high fiber diet but it's not fiber that matters....it's carbs!

The RC "Diabetic" is also too high in carbs as well as having nothing special in it that either requires a script or treats diabetes. You're paying a premium price for foods made with inferior grade ingredients that have a well advertised name. The only good point is that they're 100% guaranteed so can be returned for a refund. Most of us just told our vet that our cat refused to eat it anymore.

Some great information, written by a vet with a special interest in feline nutrition, can be found here. It's well worth the read!

Once Tigger is eating nothing but low carb canned foods, you'll know within 3-4 days if he needs to go back on insulin. Testing during that time will let you see the effect the diet change makes. A normal cat's blood glucose should be 2.8 to 6.7 on a human meter.

IF you don't want to take him off insulin for a few days, then you'll need to do the diet change very slowly and while you are able to test frequently. Reducing the carbs in the diet can drastically reduce the need for insulin.
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Hello, I'm trying to make up a Hypo tool kit.
Carry a couple of wet food tins high in carbs.
I've looked at the wet food tin labels that I have(sorry to say the first time I'm looking at this information) and they don't list carbohydrate amount.
What is listed is protein, fat, fiber and moisture content.
What do they mean with the word crude?
 
Hello and welcome from BC. My vet also started us on Caninsulin, before a more locum vet more knowledgeable about diabetic cats got us on Lantus.

As for a hypo kit, that W/D will do just fine at first. The W/D wet food is 25% carbs. It may be a little higher than you eventually need, but is a start. For more choices on carb% of food, a couple sources for you, though a bit out of date. This first one lists a lot of foods available in North Amerrica. Anything over 15% is considered high carb. A very few manufacturers list their carb% on their website, most don't. So you have to either find lists that have them, or ask the manufacturer for the break downs and do the math. Any commercial high carb food will likely be much cheaper than the w/d, and you don't need a big cans worth. Another list of possible cat foods in Canada for you is here: Food Chart Everything you wanted to know of figuring out food percentages on this website by a feline nutritionist vet: https://catinfo.org/

If you are up at 4.5 units now, I would strongly recommend not completely stopping insulin. Keep the diet the same. Learn to home test consistently and we can help you decide if the dose needs to drop or increase. Also, if you aren't testing yet for urinary ketones, start doing so. Tips to catch and test a urine sample
 
Jon Farnsworth said:
Hello, I'm trying to make up a Hypo tool kit.
Carry a couple of wet food tins high in carbs.
I've looked at the wet food tin labels that I have(sorry to say the first time I'm looking at this information) and they don't list carbohydrate amount.
What is listed is protein, fat, fiber and moisture content.
What do they mean with the word crude?
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I see you are from Canada and
I know that you can get Fancy Feast or Friskies there .In the US they are called
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

Look for any ones in Gravy or see if you can get any of the 15% and 20% carbs even higher maybe 23% that are listed on the food link I gave you to see if they are available in Canada
and some honey or Karo
 
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Wendy&Neko said:
If you are up at 4.5 units now, I would strongly recommend not completely stopping insulin
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In the original post, he says "4.5 IU Insulin 2 x per day (for 5 days so far)". I took that as his vet started him on 4.5U but that may have been incorrect. It's not very clear.

@Jon Farnsworth Was Tigger started at a lower dose back in April when he was first diagnosed? If so, what was the starting dose and how much have you been increasing by since then?
 
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