11/9 - Worried About Hadley

[Laura and Harley (GA)]

I came home at +6 yesterday to find that Harley "the paw" had once again broken into my upper cupboard and this time had found a small bag of dry Wellness Kitten food that I'd bought when he and Princess weren't eating earlier this summer. It was on the top shelf buried in the back, I don't know how he found it. He knocked it out onto the floor and tore it open and both he and brother Hadley had a pig out fest. They both looked at me with a "Nah-Nah, who needs you anyway" look after I'd cleaned up the mess and came to test their BGs. Naturally they were up - Harley was 194, and Hadley was 291. OK, I thought, no big deal, Hadley's due for a dose increase anyway. Both boys ate only half of their lunches but they'd just pigged out on junk food so who's hungry after that?

When I got home from work last night and fed my brood, Harley was fine, he ate dinner like nothing was wrong. Hadley seemed to eat at first with his usual gusto. Then he stopped, went over to the LB and made a large smelly BM. The aroma probably killed his appetite because it wasn't until I scooped the LBs that he went back to his food bowl and ate almost all of his usual 1 can FF Chicken. He followed up with a very long water drinking session. In the meantime I gave him his Lev and raised to 0.75u. A half hour after his shot, he vomited his whole dinner and all the water he drank. That was the most I've ever had to clean up in one sitting. It was a real mess. Thank goodness he did it on my puke brown carpet. I figured he had an upset tummy/GI tract from the dry food so I let him be for 15 minutes and then gave him a shot of Anzemet to control nausea. Hadley made another trip to the LB and this time made a runny,squirty BM. Poor kid was definitely not feeling well. When I gave Harley his SubQ fluids I gave Hadley about 75 ccs as well. (He's not used to this so when he gets up to leave, I don't force him to stay.) I fed him two more small meals 1/2 can each at PM+4 and +6 and he vomited again at +7. This time I gave him my last shot of Cerenia I'd been keeping on hand for emergencies.

This morning there was no more vomiting (yet, the day is still young) and no sign of liquipoo. He ate breakfast a little slower than usual and I'm going to get a different flavor of FF on the way home form work tonight as he may not want to eat the FF Chicken that he'd barfed up twice. I'm going to continue with the SubQs too to help keep him hydrated although he drinks like a sailor on his own. But his urine clumps are huge too so I don't know how much water he's retaining.

My biggest fear is ketones and DKA. I can handle hypo but DKA freaks me out something terrible. I kept watching him so I could try to get a ketone test last night but he's a very discrete pee-er and when he does go, he sits with his butt directly on the litter as though he's protecting a nest. If I can't get a test in, I may have to hunt up an overpriced meter - if the local stores even sell them.

Please send some good vibes Hadley's way!

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Hadley sounds exactly like my one civie that is allergic to grains in dry food, he has broken into the emergency stash a couple of times and has done exactly what Hadley did...puke everything up, followed by paint peeling liquid poo. So it could be that the dry food just upset his tummy and he might be sensitive to grains. What little I have learned researching DKA with Musette is as long as they aren't sky-high (although some will throw ketones at lower numbers) and are drinking, eating and peeing well that you have little to worry about ketones, as they are flushing them out peeing if there are any...I am by no means an expert on ketones or DKA but after adopting Musette I'm learning and so far all her tests have been negative. She also puts her butt right on the litter so to get a test on her, I give her a litter box with very little litter in it, just enough to barely cover the bottom, then lock her in a room by herself, so I know who's pee it is that I'm testing. :lol:

Good luck with him and hope Hadley is feeling better real soon.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

[Laura and Harley (GA)]

Hi Mel, Thanks for the reassurance, I'm really hoping it was just the (not so Wellness) food and that he'll feel better today with the anti-nausea/anti-vomit medicines and the extra hydration on board. I guess I hadn't thought that he could be allergic to grains, but you're probably right and that's what cause such a bad reaction. Not even Harley gets that sick, he just stops eating for a day or two.

Seeing the kitties on Health with DKA just makes me hyper paranoid - you know how we kitty mommabears can get. bcatrun_gif

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

Does Wellness kitten have grains in it?

Anyway, I am sure it was the food, probably the quantity of dry that he ate, expanding in his tummy and intestines and making him thirsty from that as well as the raised BGs. Beau used to have really smelly poops when he was eating dry food - goes with the territory. And Jeddie had a bout of runny diarrhea from food that contained dried egg product that was "paint stripping" in smell. It's no wonder they come tearing our of the bathroom after dropping one of those! :lol:


I think you are doing all the things you need to for now. Has he had DKA before (can't remember). Hope he feel better today.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Seeing the kitties on Health with DKA just makes me hyper paranoid - you know how we kitty mommabears can get

Tell me about it, after learning that Musette not only survived DKA twice but that she was tossing ketones when she was at the vet's and no one said a word about it when she was getting checked for her travel certificate. (Didn't learn about that one until reading over her vet records) I'm so paranoid over her. Hypo I can do standing on my head but DKA is another story altogether, especially since the only vet in this town that has an ER I wouldn't take a pet rock to!

I know when Onyx gets into anything with either corn or wheat in it he turns into the Exorcist... :lol: I didn't know a cat could projectile vomit like that! Or at that volume, honestly didn't think his stomach was that big..lol. We finally switched the drooler over to Taste of the Wild just to elimate any possible stealing of crunchy food with grains as Onyx is famous for waiting until the dog is finished eating and swiping a piece or two of dog food. But on the upside, until we figured out what he was allergic too and got rid of it, he barfed on enough of the ugly carpet that I am now carpet free, and getting new tile floors this spring. :lol: Now if I could just figure out a way to get one of the cats to puke on the drapes so I could justify replacing those...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

[Laura and Harley (GA)]

Does Wellness kitten have grains in it?

Here's the ingredient list - it has rice and barley and vegetables:

Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Rice, Ground Barley, Ground Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Natural Chicken Flavor, Salmon Meal (Source ofDHA, Docosahexaenoic Acid), Chicken Liver. Cranberries, Tomato Pomace, Olive Oil, Chicory Root Extract, Cranberry Extract Powder, Cranberry Fiber, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement), Choline Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, Chondroitin Sulfate, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Case, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Taurine, Rosemary Extract.

I think you are doing all the things you need to for now. Has he had DKA before (can't remember). Hope he feel better today.

No history of DKA that we know of, however neither the original home, the vet where he boarded or the foster home were testing for ketones. There are a couple of things in his vet records I want to get checked out though because they send up red flags to me. His DCIN blog mentions that when he was 3 years old Hadley fell from a tree and dislocated his left rear leg and needed a femoral head ostomey surgery as the joint was so badly damaged it could not be repaired. As part of the post op treatment he got buprenex and metacam for pain for 5 days. When he was diagnosed with diabetes, Hadley's urine specific gravity was a touch low which means his urine wasn't concentrating normally plus he had trace cocci in the specimen. And what did the vet treat him with for a possible UTI? Convenia. Not just one shot but 2 shots. And there was never any follow up culture or testing that I have record of to find out if the UTI was cleared up. His liver values were also elevated when he was Dx'd and there is no record of any follow up blood tests to see if they'd come down once he started treatment. Granted, he was eating so they probably figured it wasn't fatty liver disease. But it blows my mind as to why no follow up was done.

So my concern with him is if he still has a trace of UTI and is dehydrated because he's unregulated and his kidneys may not be functioning at 100% plus he isn't receiving enough insulin because I dropped the dose down to start over, he might be at risk for DKA. I need to schedule a vet appointment, I just wanted him to trust me a little more before I take him on a long car ride. But I may need to fast track the vet appointment for some bloodwork and a cysto. to make sure he's really OK.

Tell me about it, after learning that Musette not only survived DKA twice but that she was tossing ketones when she was at the vet's and no one said a word about it when she was getting checked for her travel certificate. (Didn't learn about that one until reading over her vet records) I'm so paranoid over her. Hypo I can do standing on my head but DKA is another story altogether, especially since the only vet in this town that has an ER I wouldn't take a pet rock to!

Omigod! She flew while tossing ketones? No food and no insulin? Her gaurdian angel Muse must have been looking out for her big time. It boggles the mind...and of course, she and Hadley were certified as infectious disease free and OK to fly. Frankly I think that's all they look for.

I know when Onyx gets into anything with either corn or wheat in it he turns into the Exorcist... :lol: I didn't know a cat could projectile vomit like that! Or at that volume, honestly didn't think his stomach was that big..lol.

That's the best description for it. And poor Hadley was terrified and confused while it was happening. He ran away so scared with his tail between his legs like I was going to punish him or something. Poor baby, I just felt so bad for him 'cause that had to have hurt.

Now if I could just figure out a way to get one of the cats to puke on the drapes so I could justify replacing those...lol

Easy! All you have to do is get one of them to spray on the drapes and tell Jon that cat pee is impossible to get out and you need to get new ones. :lol:

 

[MommaOfMuse]

Omigod! She flew while tossing ketones? No food and no insulin? Her gaurdian angel Muse must have been looking out for her big time.

Well she flew without food but not without insulin...even though both Venita and I agreed that Don could go ahead and give her a 1/2 dose which should have been .5u just because of her history of DKA, Don gave her a full 1u before putting her on the plane...Thankfully I didn't know that or I would have been out of my mind worrying. And yep it was in her records that she had 'moderate' ketones at her vet check...but hasn't had a even a trace so far...thankfully. She is one tough kitty, I'm still surprised she survived long enough to get rescued.

She has just finally learned how to play...I really need to get a video of her now...she is so cute when she is chasing her feather string ( cheap old halloween boa). You can almost see her thinking..."Hey! This whole playing thing is fun. Why didn't anybody tell me about it sooner?" lol. Poor little girl had no clue what toys were for when she first got here, she would just sit and watch the others playing. Although she doesn't quite get how the other cats can catch things with their toes, since she has no front claws she goes after everything with her mouth wide open, she is learning that she can hook things with her front paws so I try to remember to let her win every now and then and move things slower for her, so she can step on it rather than claw it like the others. She also loves to pounce on those dangerous blanket mice at bedtime...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.

 

[Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin]

Hi Lauren,
Probably the best thing you did after all that was give fluids. I am totally sold on giving fluids to unregulated diabetics. I believe that if more FD owners were taught how to do them and had supplies on hand, not only would the incidence of ketones be less, but the cat would be better off as most unregulated diabetics are chronically dehydrated. I was advised by a university vet to begin fluid treatment, in fact he initially had me giving a dangerous amount of fluids to overcome what he called chronic dehydration in Gandalf. 600ml, though not all at once, but 200ml at a time, 3X/day. I kid you not. He said it was fine as long as the fluids were absorbed within the 8 hours and to back off to 100ml once they stayed longer. I eventually based it on BG and would give anywhere from 50ml SID to 50ml or 75ml BID if BGs were over 300 for more than a couple cycles.
Gandalf was a large cat, so even 200ml of fluids never bothered him.

So good job for Hadley! Poor kitty with the vomiting and the poo. You would think it would teach them to not eat dry food, but no. we don't call it Kitty Krack for nothin'!

 

[Laura and Harley (GA)]

I picked up more food on the way home form work at lunch and Hadley ate 1 FF Turkey & giblets for both lunch and dinner in his usual bulldozer style. Nothing came back up. The stool is still resolving itself, but that'll probably take another day or two to get back to normal. And I got a ketone test at PMPS that was negative. Yeah! I've got to stay vigilant tough and will continue the fluids every other day and get that vet appointment scheduled.

I'm sleep deprived and crashing right now I-) , thank you everyone for your help and advice and good wishes for Hadley. cat_pet_icon

Ni ni

 

[Laura and Harley (GA)]

He seem to be back to normal this morning - eating all his food and scrounging in the other cats bowls for their leftovers. Thanks to Vicky's post, I'm going to continue to give the fluids every other day if he will let me.

 

[Peggy and Mickey (GA)]

So glad Hadley is feeling better!!

 

[Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA]

Glad he is back to himself. I bet h is tummy really bothered him yesterday.

 

[Darlene & Jack]

Glad Hadley is feeling better!

 

[Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin]

With the fluids, just make sure you give only 50ml or 75ml at a time, like you did. Even though I mentioned 200ml, I never gave that much to Gandalf at one time once I got him over the hump of the dehydration the University vet diagnosed. And I think every other day is fine as well. You could also give it based on BG, anything above 300 causes excess sugar to be dumped via the kidneys.

Just want to make sure it's not too much for dear Hadley.

 

[Laura and Harley (GA)]

Hi Vicky, Thanks for the word of caution. Fortunately I'm an old hand at fluids having treated Kelli, my family's 21 year old CRF kitty now GA, and also Harley since March. Reading your post I could tell right away the U-Vet's dosing advice was WAY out of bounds. Zoinks! Even though he's a big cat, Harley only gets 100 ccs daily and since his BGs have been lower lately, I've backed off with him to every other day. My vet had told me even at the height of his pancreratitis when it seemed like no matter what I did I just couldn't keep him hydrated that I should never exceed 120 ccs daily SubQ - if he needed more, then it was time for IVs.

Since Hadley is drinking on own, I'm going to stick with 50 ccs EOD so that he can get used to the process and also since the chief benefit of the SubQs in preventing DKA (besides hydration) is maintaining electrolyte and acid/base balance.